I do a bit of car racing at weekend and up to 12 months ago ran a 3.5t Transit Crewcab recovery.
As the train weight was 5.5t, there was no problem towing a 1.3t caravan if doing a weekender down country or even another race car on a trailer to help a mate & split the fuel cost.
As I passed my Class 2 about 7 years agoI was going to buy 10 or 12 tonner as an upgrade.
As I wouldnt be able to tow with that, I limited my upgrade to a 7.5 tonner (train weight 11t) to carry both cars and tow the caravan as well. Being a 40 something I can drive this on my car licence. WRONG!!!
It was pointed out to me that I can only tow a 750kg trailer!! eh?! Apparently there’s an 8250kg limit
Sounds like another money making scam to me. Is this common knowledge?
I’m told there is a simple low cost trailer test to overcome this.
Anyone know about this or is it a case of take my Class 1 (which is costly & seems a bit OTT for what I need)
Gruff:
. Being a 40 something I can drive this on my car licence. WRONG!!!
It was pointed out to me that I can only tow a 750kg trailer!! eh?! Apparently there’s an 8250kg limit
Therefore you have cat. C and cat. C1E restricted. If you tow with a 7.5t then you are indeed limited to 750 kgs unless you do your class 1 (CE) or in theory a full C1E test.
if you are not carrying goods do the regs even apply? i thought it was upheld in the high court that they don’t, although vosa have now applied to the supreme court as its going to cost them £££££££££
Cheers for your input. Its what I thought. ■■■■.
I used to use a minimus funnily enough but I need a HIAB + winch for sorting the cars out when we are at the race track.
To be honest , truck is “Not for commercial carriage of goods”. Its private only, for carrying my own belongings only, so perhaps youre right. Only thing is I thought it was more a licencing issue and having checked my licence it has the code 101 against my C1 entitlement
maybe i should have added this to the thread “trucks you own”!
i thought gross train weight GTW was the combined weight of the two and that should not exceed the 8250 gw so if his 7.5t was fully freighted then a prob pulling a 1.3t caravan but if it was 6t then no problem!!
and finally the test you was told is a proper coarse for car + trailers lots of companies throughout the country run it give a search on google a lad who worked for me said he needed to pass it so he could pull a bigger trailer [weight wise] on his landy!!
No, the gross train weight is the plated weight of the towing vehicle plus the trailer. The company I used to work for had this exact same argument with vosa and lost.
The GTW is the ACTUAL combined weight of both vehicle and trailer
The pre 1997 C1+E has a maximum plated MAM limit of 8250 kgs
That means on a pre 1997 C1+E this would be illegal -
Lorry GVW 7.5 tonnes but actually weighing 6 tonnes with a trailer plated at 3 tonnes but actually weighing 2 tonnes
The GTW = 8 tonnes but the combined MAM = 10.5 tonnes
For a full C1+E this would be legal - (plate in lorry states 7.5 GVW and 12.0 GTW)
Lorry GVW 7.5 tonnes actually weighing 7 tonnes with a trailer plated at 6.5 tonnes but actually weighing 5 tonnes
The GTW = 12 tonnes and the combined MAM = 14 tonnes
oakeedokee:
No, the gross train weight is the plated weight of the towing vehicle plus the trailer. The company I used to work for had this exact same argument with vosa and lost.
I think someone at VOSA needs retraining if I read that correctly
The LAW states that the GTW is the ACTUAL combined weight of both vehicle and trailer when weighed together
Adding the vehicle GVW(MAM) to the plated trailer MAM does not = the GTW because if it did then every time a trailer(drag) was coupled to a rigid LGV, the trailer would have to be replated to match it if the plated MAM of the trailer was higher than the rigid LGV plus trailer MAM … that does not happen
Can you imagine this senario …
Rigid LGV is plated at 26000 GVW and 40000 GTW
Boss says take that trailer but its plated at 16000 so driver says no can do boss because the two plated MAMs add up to 42000 !!!
This is all licensing laws and type of use does not come into it. private or commercial the same applies.
If you have C1E with no restriction code you can drive a combined maximum weight of 12t. So a vehicle plated at 7.5t and a trailer at whatever it actually weighs - unless it is plated with a ministry plate giving GVW. Therefore a 7.5t vehicle and a 3.5t trailer would be OK on a C1E. If the vehicle or trailer are ministry plated with GVW it is that GVW that is used as the weight. If not plated with GVW then it is actual weight. Most 3.5t and under trailers do not have ministry plates - therefore it is actual weight
If however your C1E has a restriction code 107 next to it then you are limited to a maximum combined weight of 8.25t. So a vehicle plated at 7.5t can only tow a trailer weighing up to 750kg
HOWEVER - if the towing vehicle is less than 7.5t a heavier trailer can be towed. Therefore if the towing vehicle is 5t the trailer could weigh 3.25t
oakeedokee:
The LAW states that the GTW is the ACTUAL combined weight of both vehicle and trailer when weighed together
I may be wrong but it is my understanding that if the vehicle has a ministry plate then the GVW on that plate is what the vehicle weighs - empty or loaded unless the actual weight is over the plated GVW
SO if the vehicle is plated at 7.5t then for GTW that is what it weighs. If the trailer isn’t plated - then it is the actual weight of the trailer. If it is plated it is the plated GVW unless it actually weighs heavier.
WHat I am trying to say is a 7.5t vehicle and a non-plated trailer actually weighing 3t is a GTW of 10.5t. If however the trailer was plated at (lets say) 5t then the GTW would be 12.5t no mater what the trailer actually weighed.
oakeedokee:
The LAW states that the GTW is the ACTUAL combined weight of both vehicle and trailer when weighed together
I may be wrong but it is my understanding that if the vehicle has a ministry plate then the GVW on that plate is what the vehicle weighs - empty or loaded unless the actual weight is over the plated GVW
SO if the vehicle is plated at 7.5t then for GTW that is what it weighs. If the trailer isn’t plated - then it is the actual weight of the trailer. If it is plated it is the plated GVW unless it actually weighs heavier.
WHat I am trying to say is a 7.5t vehicle and a non-plated trailer actually weighing 3t is a GTW of 10.5t. If however the trailer was plated at (lets say) 5t then the GTW would be 12.5t no mater what the trailer actually weighed.
Unplated trailers MAM is determined by the adding up of all the tyre load ratings to a max limit of 3.5 tonnes
Trailers over 3.5 tonnes must be plated by law
7.5 tonne GVW lorry which has a 12 tonnes GTW towing a trailer plated at 5 tonnes MAM will be legal as long as the lorry GVW, the trailer MAM and the GTW (actual weight of the lot) are not exceeded
Load lorry to an actual weight of 7 tonnes and trailer to actual weight of 5 tonnes and all is legal
That 5 tonnes can be spread out between the two as the driver sees fit providing neither the Vehicle GVW or the Trailer MAM are exceeded
That’s the flaw in the idea of not differentiating GTW from GCW.In the case of any trailer which isn’t an A frame drawbar type the load on the trailer will have an effect on the towing vehicle.It’s only the drawbar type of trailer which is/should be subject to GTW.Semi trailers,close coupled,caravan type,etc,with no front axle of their own,are/should be subject to GCW not GTW.In the case of GTW it’s possible to load the towing vehicle up to it’s max GVW and then couple it to a trailer which is loaded to it’s max authorised,or the GTW whichever is reached first,without needing to worry about spreading the load between the towing vehicle and trailer.
In the case of non drawbar type trailers which (should be) subject to GCW not GTW calculations the GCW would be less in the real world than GTW would because of the impossibilty of loading such trailers to GTW without overloading the towing vehicle in the process if the towing vehicle was already loaded to it’s GVW.
For something like an artic am I right in saying that the whole set up is designed to be evenly spread between all the axles if it has been fully loaded evenly ?
ROG:
For something like an artic am I right in saying that the whole set up is designed to be evenly spread between all the axles if it has been fully loaded evenly ?
Artics and rigids,are subject to design calculations and measurements which would result in correct axle weights loaded at GVW/GCW assuming an evenly distributed full load of equal weight pallets for example.But the issue of not differentiating GCW from GTW in the case of artic and close coupled trailer etc types compared to A frame drawbars is a flaw in the current VOSA guidelines,taking into account the that it’s unlikely that a close coupled trailer would always be run without any nose weight in all cases.While in some cases,such as a 7.5 tonner pulling a caravan or similar type trailer,a significant trailer noseweight is a requirement.Which obviously means that the towing vehicle couldn’t be loaded to it’s GVW without subtracting the noseweight of the trailer from that weight.That’s the difference between GCW and GTW calculations.
Is this common knowledge?