Towing a trailer with a van

[punchy_dan]

Btw CF on my 26/44 tonne lorry n drag I load the nose to 0kg if possible or the weight of the draw bar steel neck ,max 500 kg on a bad day .

[punchy_dan]

biggriffin:
So my van with tools and spares 3250kg+spare engine+250kg
Trailer 150kg+load3250kg. My stuff.

Do I need cpc, B+E or C1+E, O license…

The circled bit is why trailer dealers down rate the gross weight of trailers to suite the tare of the towing vehicle so these nice horse riding girls don’t exceed 3.5 tonne gtw with the nag in the back thus still being able to have a decent size trailer .

[pete_smith]

Punchy Dan:
Btw CF on my 26/44 tonne lorry n drag I load the nose to 0kg if possible or the weight of the draw bar steel neck ,max 500 kg on a bad day .

Same here Dan,
8 legger and tandem close coupled drawbar imposes a maximum weight of 500 kgs on the towing hitch, this is even when you put the bin against the front stops on the trailer.

[rog]

biggriffin:
So my van with tools and spares 3250kg+spare engine+250kg
Trailer 150kg+load3250kg. My stuff.

Do I need cpc, B+E or C1+E, O license…

Assuming your van is no more than a plated GVW of 3500 and has a GTW of at least 6900 with a trailer plated at least 3400 MAM then
B+E licence
No driver cpc as not a LGV vehicle
If commercial then tacho unless exemption applies
O licence - not certain on that bit

Ps - am going to assume the driver is included in the van weight

[punchy_dan]

pete smith:

Punchy Dan:
Btw CF on my 26/44 tonne lorry n drag I load the nose to 0kg if possible or the weight of the draw bar steel neck ,max 500 kg on a bad day .

Same here Dan,
8 legger and tandem close coupled drawbar imposes a maximum weight of 500 kgs on the towing hitch, this is even when you put the bin against the front stops on the trailer.

This exactly as the pips on the bottom wear plate make wear marks in the trailer wear ring leading to the allowable gap for the ring in the jaw going beyond permitted distance.

[punchy_dan]

ROG:
If towing vehicle is over 3.5 tonnes plated GVW but under 7.5 tonnes plated GVW then LGV C1 is needed to drive it

You stated that driver cpc will be needed so that makes me think it is a LGV C1 vehicle because vehicles under 3.5 do not need driver cpc unless towing a trailer where the plate on the vehicle added to the plate on the trailer totals more than 3.5 tonnes and no exemption applies

You changed your mind on the dcpc but then Rog ?

[punchy_dan]

ROG:

biggriffin:
So my van with tools and spares 3250kg+spare engine+250kg
Trailer 150kg+load3250kg. My stuff.

Do I need cpc, B+E or C1+E, O license…

Assuming your van is no more than a plated GVW of 3500 and has a GTW of at least 6900 with a trailer plated at least 3400 MAM then
B+E licence
No driver cpc as not a LGV vehicle
If commercial then tacho unless exemption applies
O licence - not certain on that bit

Ps - am going to assume the driver is included in the van weight

[biggriffin]

Punchy Dan:
Mini wheelers & light Hauliers - TRANSPORT PHOTO FORUM (MEMBERS ONLY) - Trucknet UK

25 yrs towing trailers for a living flat to the mat in the U.K. and to many countries in mainland Europe but Carryfast who’s sat in front of the computer since it was invented knows better

Experience doesn’t beat Google

[punchy_dan]

Figures shown are maximum not recommended,in my experience more than 100 kg means less comfortable ride for driver .

[rog]

Punchy Dan:

ROG:
If towing vehicle is over 3.5 tonnes plated GVW but under 7.5 tonnes plated GVW then LGV C1 is needed to drive it

You stated that driver cpc will be needed so that makes me think it is a LGV C1 vehicle because vehicles under 3.5 do not need driver cpc unless towing a trailer where the plate on the vehicle added to the plate on the trailer totals more than 3.5 tonnes and no exemption applies

You changed your mind on the dcpc but then Rog ?

DCPC is for those commercially driving vehicles over 3.5 tonnes

[punchy_dan]

So just to be clear Rog a 3.5 tonner towing a trailer for hire or reward in your words is a dcpc required for the driver ,yes or no please .

[rog]

Punchy Dan:
So just to be clear Rog a 3.5 tonner towing a trailer for hire or reward in your words is a dcpc required for the driver ,yes or no please .

NO

[carryfast]

Punchy Dan:
Btw CF on my 26/44 tonne lorry n drag I load the nose to 0kg if possible or the weight of the draw bar steel neck ,max 500 kg on a bad day .

What you actually mean is that you load it tail heavy enough to remove any noseweight. What could possibly go wrong.

While ironically 500 kgs is actually a reasonable noseweight for a 3.5t trailer and obviously more than enough to put a 3.5t gross towing vehicle way overweight both gross and possibly rear axle.
So it’s actually either a 3t gross van or it’s a 4t gross van.

[carryfast]

Punchy Dan:
0

biggriffin:
So my van with tools and spares 3250kg+spare engine+250kg
Trailer 150kg+load3250kg. My stuff.

Do I need cpc, B+E or C1+E, O license…

The circled bit is why trailer dealers down rate the gross weight of trailers to suite the tare of the towing vehicle so these nice horse riding girls don’t exceed 3.5 tonne gtw with the nag in the back thus still being able to have a decent size trailer .

Oh wait it’s a 1.5t gross trailer.The driver has a B + E.
How light can a trailer and a horse be to weigh 3.5t INCLUDING the weight of the towing vehicle.

[carryfast]

Punchy Dan:

pete smith:

Punchy Dan:
Btw CF on my 26/44 tonne lorry n drag I load the nose to 0kg if possible or the weight of the draw bar steel neck ,max 500 kg on a bad day .

Same here Dan,
8 legger and tandem close coupled drawbar imposes a maximum weight of 500 kgs on the towing hitch, this is even when you put the bin against the front stops on the trailer.

This exactly as the pips on the bottom wear plate make wear marks in the trailer wear ring leading to the allowable gap for the ring in the jaw going beyond permitted distance.

Yeah right so it’s supposedly the same 500 kgs noseweight whether it’s a 12t gross trailer or an 18t trailer.All obviously dependent on how tail heavy the thing is and an 18 tonne trailer is going to be a lot more tail heavy than a 12 tonne trailer to get the same 500 kgs noseweight.
In my case it was all heavy pallets as far back and over the first trailer axle.Then lighter stuff behind it.
You wouldn’t have wanted to trust steel toe caps with dropping the resulting noseweight on your foot.
Bearing in mind that the tail wagging the dog situation is far more critical in the case of a 2 + 2 close coupled outfit.
3 + 2 A frame I really didn’t need to give a zb how they loaded it.

[carryfast]

ROG:

Punchy Dan:
You changed your mind on the dcpc but then Rog ?

DCPC is for those commercially driving vehicles over 3.5 tonnes

Exactly where does it say that doesn’t include over 3.5t GCW/GTW vehicle and trailer outfits ?.

[carryfast]

Punchy Dan:
So just to be clear Rog a 3.5 tonner towing a trailer for hire or reward in your words is a dcpc required for the driver ,yes or no please .

Yes unless you can prove otherwise.It would be bleedin stupid to say O licence and thereby management CPC required also tachograph.With a driver who has been taught nothing about hours regs etc etc as part of the DCPC as opposed to his C1 counterpart.Even the government isn’t that stupid.
Oh wait you also said no O licence required.

[carryfast]

ROG:

Punchy Dan:
So just to be clear Rog a 3.5 tonner towing a trailer for hire or reward in your words is a dcpc required for the driver ,yes or no please .

NO

Where is that rule ‘actually’ stated by the government ROG.As opposed to over 3.5t.

[punchy_dan]

sheffield to Tamworth on the limiter plus more down hill nearly 2 metre overhang

Carryfast:

Punchy Dan:
Btw CF on my 26/44 tonne lorry n drag I load the nose to 0kg if possible or the weight of the draw bar steel neck ,max 500 kg on a bad day .

What you actually mean is that you load it tail heavy enough to remove any noseweight. What could possibly go wrong.

While ironically 500 kgs is actually a reasonable noseweight for a 3.5t trailer and obviously more than enough to put a 3.5t gross towing vehicle way overweight both gross and possibly rear axle.
So it’s actually either a 3t gross van or it’s a 4t gross van.

[punchy_dan]

Carryfast:

Punchy Dan:

pete smith:

Punchy Dan:
Btw CF on my 26/44 tonne lorry n drag I load the nose to 0kg if possible or the weight of the draw bar steel neck ,max 500 kg on a bad day .

Same here Dan,
8 legger and tandem close coupled drawbar imposes a maximum weight of 500 kgs on the towing hitch, this is even when you put the bin against the front stops on the trailer.

This exactly as the pips on the bottom wear plate make wear marks in the trailer wear ring leading to the allowable gap for the ring in the jaw going beyond permitted distance.

Yeah right so it’s supposedly the same 500 kgs noseweight whether it’s a 12t gross trailer or an 18t trailer.All obviously dependent on how tail heavy the thing is and an 18 tonne trailer is going to be a lot more tail heavy than a 12 tonne trailer to get the same 500 kgs noseweight.
In my case it was all heavy pallets as far back and over the first trailer axle.Then lighter stuff behind it.
You wouldn’t have wanted to trust steel toe caps with dropping the resulting noseweight on your foot.
Bearing in mind that the tail wagging the dog situation is far more critical in the case of a 2 + 2 close coupled outfit.
3 + 2 A frame I really didn’t need to give a zb how they loaded it.

Drag trailer unladen weights vary massively so you are talking more rubbish,a tandem 20 ft 18 tonne gross made by wheelbase can be 4 tonne yet a triaxle Cartwright at 23 ft 24 tonne gross can weigh 3.5 tonne .