LL79:
darren.ovenden:
Hi All,
Thanks for your responses.
SO… my question was clear, however there has been a collection of different responses.
On the back of this I believe my lad can drive the van and trailer on just his B-E
and i will have him gain his 35 hours CPC■■?
Thanks,
Darren
Your question NOT being clear caused different answers!
if 5T vehicle is towing vehicle plus trailer then answer is yes…
if 5t is gwm of towing vehicle, then answer is no.
To be fair it didn’t take Sherlock Holmes to see that the question clearly stated 3.5t van pulling a 1.5t trailer = 5t GCW.
But if the nose weight of the trailer + the gvw of the van = more than 3.5t ‘combined’ then the answer is still no even if the trailer is less than 3.5t.
Unbelievably even the Government itself doesn’t realise the difference between GTW and GCW in that regard.
ROG:
Punchy Dan:
ROG:
If towing vehicle is over 3.5 tonnes plated GVW but under 7.5 tonnes plated GVW then LGV C1 is needed to drive it
You stated that driver cpc will be needed so that makes me think it is a LGV C1 vehicle because vehicles under 3.5 do not need driver cpc unless towing a trailer where the plate on the vehicle added to the plate on the trailer totals more than 3.5 tonnes and no exemption applies
Rog the last bit reads like the driver of a 3.5 tonne gross vehicle towing a trailer needs a driver cpc ? Which is wrong ,am I being thick or does someone else read it differently?
I think I said it correctly
Mr Punchard, when are you going to realise, Google always beats practical experience… 
Punchy Dan:
ROG:
If towing vehicle is over 3.5 tonnes plated GVW but under 7.5 tonnes plated GVW then LGV C1 is needed to drive it
You stated that driver cpc will be need so that makes me think it is a LGV C1 vehicle because vehicles under 3.5 do not need driver cpc unless towing a trailer where the plate on the vehicle added to the plate on the trailer totals more than 3.5 tonnes and no exemption applies
Rog the last bit reads like the driver of a 3.5 tonne gross vehicle towing a trailer needs a driver cpc ? Which is wrong ,am I being thick or does someone else read it differently?
3.5 t gvw van towing 1.5t gvw trailer = 5t GCW.
So B + E but also needs tacho, O licence and DCPC ?.
The driving licence requirement has nothing to do with O licence/DCPC/Tacho.
If I’ve got it right a pre 1997 licence allows for C1+E on a car licence.Or driving a 44tonner drawbar on a class 2/3 ( C ) all under grandfather rights.But they’ll all still need a DCPC. 
Carryfast:
Punchy Dan:
ROG:
If towing vehicle is over 3.5 tonnes plated GVW but under 7.5 tonnes plated GVW then LGV C1 is needed to drive it
You stated that driver cpc will be need so that makes me think it is a LGV C1 vehicle because vehicles under 3.5 do not need driver cpc unless towing a trailer where the plate on the vehicle added to the plate on the trailer totals more than 3.5 tonnes and no exemption applies
Rog the last bit reads like the driver of a 3.5 tonne gross vehicle towing a trailer needs a driver cpc ? Which is wrong ,am I being thick or does someone else read it differently?
3.5 t gvw van towing 1.5t gvw trailer = 5t GCW.
So B + E but also needs tacho, O licence and DCPC ?.
The driving licence requirement has nothing to do with O licence/DCPC/Tacho.
If I’ve got it right a pre 1997 licence allows for C1+E on a car licence.Or driving a 44tonner drawbar on a class 2/3 ( C ) all under grandfather rights.But they’ll all still need a DCPC.
A driver cpc is NOT required for a 3.5 tonne vehicle towing a trailer ,also if it’s own goods a operators licence is NOT required either.
ROG:
GCW 
do you mean GTW
Man who dig big enough hole on own, will eventually not be able to get out of hole.
Punchy Dan:
Carryfast:
The driving licence requirement has nothing to do with O licence/DCPC/Tacho.
If I’ve got it right a pre 1997 licence allows for C1+E on a car licence.Or driving a 44tonner drawbar on a class 2/3 ( C ) all under grandfather rights.But they’ll all still need a DCPC.
A driver cpc is NOT required for a 3.5 tonne vehicle towing a trailer ,also if it’s own goods a operators licence is NOT required either.
A DCPC is actually required for a 3.5t or above vehicle. 
driveruk.co.uk/pdf/cpc.pdf
Where does it say that 3.5t > doesn’t also include the GCW of a van and trailer outfit ?.
What’s a Restricted O Licence all about ?.
Are you saying that driving a 7.5tonner, or even C1+E ?, on a car licence under pre '97 Grandfather rights also doesn’t need a DCPC ?.
ROG:
GCW do you mean GTW
GTW by definition only means an A frame drawbar outfit.
GCW means that the trailer imposes a load on the towing vehicle.
Which is why if you load a van or truck to its max GVW then drop the nose weight of a close coupled etc trailer on it you’ll put it over its GVW and possibly rear axle weight.
Even the DVSA have lost the plot in that regard by saying they are the same thing when they aren’t.
Carryfast:
Punchy Dan:
Carryfast:
The driving licence requirement has nothing to do with O licence/DCPC/Tacho.
If I’ve got it right a pre 1997 licence allows for C1+E on a car licence.Or driving a 44tonner drawbar on a class 2/3 ( C ) all under grandfather rights.But they’ll all still need a DCPC.
A driver cpc is NOT required for a 3.5 tonne vehicle towing a trailer ,also if it’s own goods a operators licence is NOT required either.
A DCPC is actually required for a 3.5t or above vehicle.
driveruk.co.uk/pdf/cpc.pdf
Where does it say that 3.5t > doesn’t also include the GCW of a van and trailer outfit ?.
What’s a Restricted O Licence all about ?.
Are you saying that driving a 7.5tonner, or even C1+E ?, on a car licence under pre '97 Grandfather rights also doesn’t need a DCPC ?.
CF what I’ve written is very clear ,your link is to a companies website who are obviously wrong ,there is no requirement for a business using a 3.5 tonne vehicle pulling a trailer to have a operators licence of any type if they only move their own goods .When did you or your hole digging helper last drive a 3.5 tonner with trailer and get stopped at a road side check ? I’ve got 2 old timers who help me out they have no dcpc and I send them out and they have been stopped and checked and there is no problem.
May be one of the traffic rats that have a look on here would like to comment?
FFS, you’ve got Mr nose weight A frame, and I know all the rules via Google Rog, Bullying a poor Van driver, and they are losing miserably.
Punchy Dan:
Carryfast:
Are you saying that driving a 7.5tonner, or even C1+E ?, on a car licence under pre '97 Grandfather rights also doesn’t need a DCPC ?.
CF what I’ve written is very clear ,your link is to a companies website who are obviously wrong ,there is no requirement for a business using a 3.5 tonne vehicle pulling a trailer to have a operators licence of any type if they only move their own goods .When did you or your hole digging helper last drive a 3.5 tonner with trailer and get stopped at a road side check ? I’ve got 2 old timers who help me out they have no dcpc and I send them out and they have been stopped and checked and there is no problem.
May be one of the traffic rats that have a look on here would like to comment?
Can’t find any info anywhere which actually states that the DCPC requirement doesn’t also include a 3.5t > GCW van and trailer outfit.
Just like it includes an 8.25t GCW outfit driven on a B ( 107 ).
If not then 3.5 + 3.5 is obviously the way to go for anyone wanting 3.5-7t Gross without a DCPC requirement at least.
What is certain is that if you add the noseweight of a trailer, to a 3.5t GVW vehicle, then that 3.5t vehicle will be over the 3.5t limit by that amount ?.
Which means all bets are off regardless assuming the towing vegicle is loaded to its m.a.m weight ?.
biggriffin:
FFS, you’ve got Mr nose weight A frame, and I know all the rules via Google Rog, Bullying a poor Van driver, and they are losing miserably.
Yes the difference between an A frame trailer v close coupled matters if you want to couple up a 3.5t vehicle to a trailer without the trailer nose weight putting it over weight.
So you’re saying no restricted O licence required for a 3.5t vehicle and an over 1020 kg gross plated trailer ?.
The OP wasn’t asking about O licencing and some of us even knew that he meant 5t GCW with a B + E not a bleedin 5t van. 
biggriffin:
FFS, you’ve got Mr nose weight A frame, and I know all the rules via Google Rog, Bullying a poor Van driver, and they are losing miserably.
Yes the difference between an A frame trailer v close coupled matters if you want to couple up a 3.5t vehicle to a trailer without the trailer nose weight putting it over weight.
So you’re saying no restricted O licence required for a 3.5t vehicle and an over 1020 kg gross plated trailer ?.
The OP wasn’t asking about O licencing and some of us even knew that he meant 5t GCW with a B + E not a bleedin 5t van.
Carryfast:
biggriffin:
FFS, you’ve got Mr nose weight A frame, and I know all the rules via Google Rog, Bullying a poor Van driver, and they are losing miserably.
Yes the difference between an A frame trailer v close coupled matters if you want to couple up a 3.5t vehicle to a trailer without the trailer nose weight putting it over weight.
So you’re saying no restricted O licence required for a 3.5t vehicle and an over 1020 kg gross plated trailer ?.
The OP wasn’t asking about O licencing and some of us even knew that he meant 5t GCW with a B + E not a bleedin 5t van.
Cf you are missing on thing here but that’s fine as I realise you have no practical experience 
,3.5 t plus 3.5t at 7 t gtw you are correct one has to leave the towing vehicle approximately 100 kg light to allow for nose weight also leaving the gtw at 6.9 t but what you have failed to see is that the turntable trailer is so much heavier than the normal trailer so less is carried ( length depending of course but please don’t subject me to google search unladen weights with links to manufacturers) thanks .
Punchy Dan:
Carryfast:
Yes the difference between an A frame trailer v close coupled matters if you want to couple up a 3.5t vehicle to a trailer without the trailer nose weight putting it over weight.
So you’re saying no restricted O licence required for a 3.5t vehicle and an over 1020 kg gross plated trailer ?.
The OP wasn’t asking about O licencing and some of us even knew that he meant 5t GCW with a B + E not a bleedin 5t van.
Cf you are missing on thing here but that’s fine as I realise you have no practical experience ,3.5 t plus 3.5t at 7 t gtw you are correct one has to leave the towing vehicle approximately 100 kg light to allow for nose weight also leaving the gtw at 6.9 t but what you have failed to see is that the turntable trailer is so much heavier than the normal trailer so less is carried ( length depending of course but please don’t subject me to google search unladen weights with links to manufacturers) thanks .
3.5t trailer,or even 1.5t, with a 100 kg noseweight yeah right.That’s going to be an interesting load plan front to back and definitely a tail happy liability on the road as a result.
While the OP has got another 2t of trailer weight to play with.So how much heavier can the turntable type be assuming the 3.5t gross van is a deal breaker.
Oh and remind me you’re saying that you can pull an over 1020 kgs trailer without an O licence for own account or otherwise ?.
As for having to leave the towing vehicle light that’s precisely because it’s GCW that’s being dropped on it, not GTW. 
So my van with tools and spares 3250kg+spare engine+250kg
Trailer 150kg+load3250kg. My stuff.
Do I need cpc, B+E or C1+E, O license…
There’s no educating Pork .
viewtopic.php?f=28&t=93275
25 yrs towing trailers for a living flat to the mat in the U.K. and to many countries in mainland Europe but Carryfast who’s sat in front of the computer since it was invented knows better