Carryfast:
Winseer:
I reckon Vote Leave winning the franchise is actually better than Grass Roots Out getting it. With Boris running the show - I reckon there’s a better chance we’ll now pull off Brexit. With Farage in charge of it instead, - we would have had the middle ground people who already half believe the tosh said about him - voting “remain” just because of his own personal low charisma in their eyes…
Boris is always going to be taken more seriously than Farage because he’s not only a sitting MP, but a bigshot in the Conservative Party, he dislikes Cameron and Osbourne which is also in line with public opinion, and of course he’s been a fairly good Mayor of London… The scruffiness actually makes him more likeable as well, as it detracts from that elitist public school crap that we get dished out by the other two in spades… Cameron was always worried that “Being too posh might count against him”… Well it does. I look forward to both Left and Right voters seizing on this chance to get rid of Cameron and Osbourne by voting Brexit tactically if they won’t do it for disliking the elites reasons… 
Why would a key ally of Cameron and all the establishment implications which go with it and an outspoken supporter of EU membership be an any more credible out campaigner than Corbyn is for the in campaign.Bearing in mind the importance of the Labour out vote Grass Roots Out is far more relevant than Boris with Hoey’s position far more credible in that regard than Boris.Which explains why the establishment has predictably sidelined GO.
Corbyn isn’t credible at present in ANY campaign - that’s why. He’s failed to seize the chance to get behind the popular will of the people here - and tell Labour supporters to vote for Brexit. He genuinely thinks we all want to hand over our hard-earned in this country to people we’ve never met, many of whom are bogus, only want our benefits, and seek no uplift to the wider British public whatsoever.
THAT is how I would define “Out of Touch”. It’s unusual for a leader of the opposition to be less popular than an unpopular sitting Prime Minister - but there it is… 
Winseer:
Carryfast:
Why would a key ally of Cameron and all the establishment implications which go with it and an outspoken supporter of EU membership be an any more credible out campaigner than Corbyn is for the in campaign.Bearing in mind the importance of the Labour out vote Grass Roots Out is far more relevant than Boris with Hoey’s position far more credible in that regard than Boris.Which explains why the establishment has predictably sidelined GO.
Corbyn isn’t credible at present in ANY campaign - that’s why. He’s failed to seize the chance to get behind the popular will of the people here - and tell Labour supporters to vote for Brexit. He genuinely thinks we all want to hand over our hard-earned in this country to people we’ve never met, many of whom are bogus, only want our benefits, and seek no uplift to the wider British public whatsoever.
THAT is how I would define “Out of Touch”. It’s unusual for a leader of the opposition to be less popular than an unpopular sitting Prime Minister - but there it is…
Firstly Corbyn,unlike Benn and Shore before him,has predictably allowed his Socialist/Internationalist principles to over ride the need for a Nationalist stance in this case.On that note trust me these zb wits will happily throw the interests of the Nation to those like Merkel and Junker etc who they see as allies.
As for Boris I don’t see his credibility as being any better possibly even worse having been a loyal ally of Cameron’s and Europhile up to the point where he only recently inexplicably changed ‘sides’.While Farage has shown what seems like a genuine wish to engage with the Labour out vote together with what’s needed in a move towards protectionism at least regarding the Labour market which is a good start.Which explains why the establishment were so keen to parachute Boris into the out campaign side in an obvious attempt to reduce Farage’s and GO’s effectiveness.In which case both Farage and GO have been bright enough to go along with it,so far.Although it’s my guess that Boris will show his true colours by changing the out campaign agenda to one of further ‘re negotiations’ to keep us in the scam and further distancing Farage.At which point the Leave Group would be seen for the establishment insurance policy it possibly is.
Yeh. Funny you mention the socialist/nationalist connection there, what with “Momentum” behaving like the ■■■■ Brownshirts, masters in the dark arts, propaganda, and general slag offs that boil down to “We can do better - but we won’t show you how until you make the mistake of electing us!”
A Corbyn government would have the “Momentum” lot become a Gestapo/SS kind of situation imho - and they’d run rings around their leader, doing everything in his name, and causing great “social cleansing” harm to what they would see as the “forces of Conservatism” but in actual fact it would be “any moderate who won’t sell their soul for New New Labour” that would be caught up in it. 
With that, in regard to the OP - I’m still more scared of Labour propaganda than I am of any standard Tory bull out there right now… 
Winseer:
Yeh. Funny you mention the socialist/nationalist connection there, what with “Momentum” behaving like the ■■■■ Brownshirts, masters in the dark arts, propaganda, and general slag offs that boil down to “We can do better - but we won’t show you how until you make the mistake of electing us!”
A Corbyn government would have the “Momentum” lot become a Gestapo/SS kind of situation imho - and they’d run rings around their leader, doing everything in his name, and causing great “social cleansing” harm to what they would see as the “forces of Conservatism” but in actual fact it would be “any moderate who won’t sell their soul for New New Labour” that would be caught up in it.
With that, in regard to the OP - I’m still more scared of Labour propaganda than I am of any standard Tory bull out there right now…
Firstly as I’ve said there’s no way that Socialist can mean Nationalist.Socialist ideology by definition means anti nation state and anti national borders and the imposition of a political view not the idea of Nation.Which is why Corbyn has taken an opposite line to Benn and Shore before him.Especially Shore who as I’ve also said was taking Labour away from that bs Socialist ideological position towards a Nationalist stance which is what’s needed.
While ironically a similar situation applies within the Conservative ranks.But arguably for different reasons being the convenient selective fact that the exploitative nature of Socialism,fits in perfectly with the exploitative idea of non Fordist Capitalism which we’ve got now.On that note make no mistake Cameron’s pro EU pro globalist/Chinese Communist sympathies are as big a threat as anything which Corbyn has lined up for us.Which leaves the obvious question as to where Boris actually sits in that argument.In which case he’s certainly closer to Cameron than either Shore,Le Pen or even Farage.
Corbyn doesn’t actually have anything “lined up for us”. He’ll either not get elected, or only get elected if he drops the stuff that makes him unelectable, such as “I will ditch trident”, and effectively disband our armed forces. 
There’s bugger-all point having Vanguards moving about with no nukes on them, so why not go the whole hog and just disband every forces person who is no longer allowed to kill any enemies?.. That’d be all of them by Pacifist Corbyn’s reckoning of course. 
Winseer:
Corbyn doesn’t actually have anything “lined up for us”. He’ll either not get elected, or only get elected if he drops the stuff that makes him unelectable, such as “I will ditch trident”, and effectively disband our armed forces.
There’s bugger-all point having Vanguards moving about with no nukes on them, so why not go the whole hog and just disband every forces person who is no longer allowed to kill any enemies?.. That’d be all of them by Pacifist Corbyn’s reckoning of course.
That probably should have been what he’d like to have lined up for us if anyone was stupid enough to put him into power.
Having said that he’s the type of immature blind idealistic zb wit with an outlook that even most Socialists would have realised won’t work in the real world and thereby abandoned before the age of 20.It’s then just a matter of where they go from there which could be anything from Blair’s position,to that of Shore and Powell as in my case.On that note it’s that clearly defined idiocy which makes those like Corbyn and his idiotic,naive,brainwashed followers less of a danger than those like Cameron and Thatcher,and Reagan before him.
IE the latter will ‘say’ that they are all about defence of ‘the west’ and the national interest while at the same time selling us out to the interests of Islamic nutters like the Saudis and the really dangerous Socialist agendas of the Chinese Communist Party,and Merkel etc who are using subterfuge and infiltration to further their cause.
No surprise that Corbyn has chosen to join Merkel in that case the difference being that in his case everyone knows what the zb is and exactly where he stands and can avoid him on that basis.Unlike Cameron and Thatcher and Reagan before him and possibly/probably Boris.
Stanley Mitchell:
Lets not forget that Corbyn and Co are pro EU as well, its not just a plummy boys club, the pretend revolutionary wants in 
My theory is Corbyns running scared.
I f we leave the UK then Scotland could possibly call for another referendum on independence.
Should this happen and Scotland vote to leave the UK Labour wouln never win again…That’s why I think Corbyn and labour have turned from anti to pro EU…Thinking of themselves and not what is in the best interest of the general public…unusual that!..for a politician!
Just my 2p worth
scousedave:
Stanley Mitchell:
Lets not forget that Corbyn and Co are pro EU as well, its not just a plummy boys club, the pretend revolutionary wants in
My theory is Corbyns running scared.
I f we leave the UK then Scotland could possibly call for another referendum on independence.
Should this happen and Scotland vote to leave the UK Labour wouln never win again…That’s why I think Corbyn and labour have turned from anti to pro EU…Thinking of themselves and not what is in the best interest of the general public…unusual that!..for a politician!
Just my 2p worth
Assuming a change to an anti EU stance and possibly as a result the breakup of the UK Labour could still beat the Conservatives.On the basis that Labour could do what’s needed in protectionism and anti free markets better than the Cons could because the Cons have too much free markets ideological baggage in that regard.
As it stands Labour has an open goal in front of it and all it needs to do is change from Socialist to Nationalist to win the game.As opposed to where it stands at present in the ironic and unbelievable position of being on the same side as the CBI and US bankers.