To settle an ADR argument

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Been having a little back and forth between some mates of mine regarding those hazardous diamonds you see on that ferry trailers. Now, they say you’re supposed to remove them as soon as you get the trailer because the powers that be can do you for carrying hazardous goods without displaying your ADR boards. I’ve always left them because they are only for sea going rules, not ADR rules.

The reason this came about was because I passed a college when I had a full load of soft drinks on whilst still having the Class 3 diamond from earlier in the day still on the trailer. He questioned me about it in the yard later, asking why I didn’t have my ADR boards out. I replied that I didn’t need to remove them as I consider them only for when the trailer on a ship.

So, who is correct in this?

2

Not you.

It is equally wrong to show ADR markings when not carrying dangerous goods as it is to not show the markings when you are.

3

You need to go & ask the emergency services crew who will attend your incident & act according to the information you display on your vehicle.

Whilst you’re there, remember to apologise for your ignorance & idleness.

4

nsmith1180:
Not you.

It is equally wrong to show ADR markings when not carrying dangerous goods as it is to not show the markings when you are.

+1
Diesel Dave may be a long shortly but I believe it’s a massive no no to have ADR markings showing on non ADR goods.

Scenarios like emergency incident and driver unconscious costing emergency services precious time to evaluate the situation.

Return your licence asap… :wink:

5

nsmith1180:
Not you.

It is equally wrong to show ADR markings when not carrying dangerous goods as it is to not show the markings when you are.

+1 they definitely need removed if they don’t correspond with the load inside the trailer. We regulary pick up containers with mixed loads and if there is a load that has some haz on board as soon as it’s off the the boards on unit and trailer are shut and the diamonds are removed from the container.

6

The problem with them things is that they are an absolute sod to get off, especially if they’ve been stuck to clean vinyl. I believe that if a boat sinks they are designed to remain attached to the trailer for eleventy billion years. Or something like that. I used to just stick gaffer tape over them.

7

having them on when there is nothing on the trailer is as bad as not having them on when loaded with it, there for the emergency services to know how to deal with an incident, as its no good asking the driver he might not be with the truck or speak the same language, we got pulled on our way to dover just before the 24 services and the front aluminium haz plate had fallen open because the steel catch had worn away the opening, you would have thought we had committed murder with the fuss one of the pair made out of it, we carried haz all the time and knew the regs, and it clipped back up after we gave it a wash in Bristol early doors in the morning, still number two smoothed it all over and we were on our way in the end,

8

Harry Monk:
The problem with them things is that they are an absolute sod to get off, especially if they’ve been stuck to clean vinyl. I believe that if a boat sinks they are designed to remain attached to the trailer for eleventy billion years. Or something like that. I used to just stick gaffer tape over them.

Good but,
Or a white paint aerosol does it quick n easy. ( on container tanks the white skin comes off before the ■■■■ stickers do ! )

9

I used to carry haz goods under IMDG rules and used to run with the diamonds on the material I was carrying without my orange ADR plates up and been stopped for it as well with a clean bill of health after I have shown them the transport document and a few phone calls back and fore, BUT as soon as it falls under ADR regs you MUST show your plates and have all the revellant gear.

Do you check with your office if it falls under ADR before you take the trailer or do you just assume its under the IMDG regs?

10

scottie0011:
I used to carry haz goods under IMDG rules and used to run with the diamonds on the material I was carrying without my orange ADR plates up and been stopped for it as well with a clean bill of health after I have shown them the transport document and a few phone calls back and fore, BUT as soon as it falls under ADR regs you MUST show your plates and have all the revellant gear.

Do you check with your office if it falls under ADR before you take the trailer or do you just assume its under the IMDG regs?

We get a copy of the DGN’s and normally told if its haz or not. I’ve had trailers come with those hazardous diamonds on but don’t fall under ADR rules. I used to take car batteries up to Sunderland, they arrived on the quay with Class 8’s, marine pollutant and Class 2.2’s on yet they did not fall under the ADR rule set so we didn’t need the orange plates on. We’d take the diamonds off at Sunderland because we had to return the trailer to the quay and it was always booked as non-haz.

The majorty of the time now, the stuff we collect from the quayside is groupage to take down to our other depots so I might only have one pallet thats Class 3 or whatever on there that weighs about 120Kg so its not LQ so it needs the Class 3 diamonds on the trailer yet since its PGIII it doesn’t fall under ADR regs for road transport.

11

Radar19:

scottie0011:
I used to carry haz goods under IMDG rules and used to run with the diamonds on the material I was carrying without my orange ADR plates up and been stopped for it as well with a clean bill of health after I have shown them the transport document and a few phone calls back and fore, BUT as soon as it falls under ADR regs you MUST show your plates and have all the revellant gear.

Do you check with your office if it falls under ADR before you take the trailer or do you just assume its under the IMDG regs?

We get a copy of the DGN’s and normally told if its haz or not. I’ve had trailers come with those hazardous diamonds on but don’t fall under ADR rules. I used to take car batteries up to Sunderland, they arrived on the quay with Class 8’s, marine pollutant and Class 2.2’s on yet they did not fall under the ADR rule set so we didn’t need the orange plates on. We’d take the diamonds off at Sunderland because we had to return the trailer to the quay and it was always booked as non-haz.

The majorty of the time now, the stuff we collect from the quayside is groupage to take down to our other depots so I might only have one pallet thats Class 3 or whatever on there that weighs about 120Kg so its not LQ so it needs the Class 3 diamonds on the trailer yet since its PGIII it doesn’t fall under ADR regs for road transport.

Carry on as you are doing then, take the diamonds off once you’re tipped, as far as I know there is nothing in the regs to say you can’t run with diamonds on if not under ADR, just remember to take them off when empty, IMDG is a different animal to ADR, things that wouldn’t be hazardous for road transport IS classed as hazardous for shipment by sea.

12

Radar19:
Been having a little back and forth between some mates of mine regarding those hazardous diamonds you see on that ferry trailers. Now, they say you’re supposed to remove them as soon as you get the trailer because the powers that be can do you for carrying hazardous goods without displaying your ADR boards. I’ve always left them because they are only for sea going rules, not ADR rules.

Hi Radar19,

There’s so much that people have half remembered here that it’s difficult to know where to begin, but here goes… :smiley: :smiley:

It’s helpful to sort out our language first. :wink:

“those hazardous diamonds” are called placards [250mm X 250mm]
“ADR boards” are called orange coloured plates [400mm X 300mm (or 300mm X 120mm due to vehicle construction)]

ADR is the name of the Regulations that govern the carriage of dangerous goods by road
IMDG is the name of the Regulations that govern the carriage of dangerous goods by sea

Now we can get to the questions.

The rules for ISO containers are easy… ADR and IMDG both require an ISO container to be placarded on all four sides when it contains any amount of dangerous goods. (There are only a few very minor exceptions to this.)

Now we can consider collecting/delivering an ISO container to/from a port by road…

Normal ADR rules apply to the road leg of the journey, so the dangerous goods are either being carried using the LQ or small load exemptions OR the load is packaged in a normal way, so the 20, 333 or 1,000 ADR threshold limits apply to decide whether orange coloured plates are required to be displayed on the carrying vehicle. This doesn’t alter the blue writing above.

=============================

For a complete vehicle carrying dangerous goods which is itself going to be carried on a ferry, IMDG requires the blue writing above to be followed EXCEPT that a placard is NOT needed on the front of a complete vehicle.

=============================

For a vehicle which is going to drop off/collect a trailer for onward/incoming shipment to/from a ferry, IMDG requires the blue writing above to be followed as for ISO containers EXCEPT that it should be remembered that placards are allowed (but NOT required) by ADR during the road leg of the journey. For all UN Classes, except Classes 1 and 7, it is perfectly OK to place or remove placards on/from unaccompanied trailers at the port.

Dave’s IMDG tips:

  • If the ‘thing’ carrying dangerous goods going on a boat hasn’t got a windscreen, it needs four placards.
  • If the ‘thing’ carrying dangerous goods going on a boat has a windscreen, it needs three placards.
  • IMDG does not recognise ADR orange coloured plates, they ONLY use placards.
  • IMDG allows that ADR orange coloured plates may be left in place during a ferry crossing.

Radar19:
The reason this came about was because I passed a college when I had a full load of soft drinks on whilst still having the Class 3 diamond from earlier in the day still on the trailer. He questioned me about it in the yard later, asking why I didn’t have my ADR boards out. I replied that I didn’t need to remove them as I consider them only for when the trailer on a ship.

So, who is correct in this?

As has already been (correctly) mentioned, you must remove (or cover) placards/orange coloured plates when there are no dangerous goods on board a vehicle or ISO container.

Sorry mate, but you risked a prohibition for not doing so.

Your mate is incorrect with a blanket statement that you need orange coloured plates when carrying dangerous goods, because ADR has a quite a number of exemptions to that rule.

Orange coloured plates are not need when carrying:

  • LQs (Package type exemption, usually for retail goods)
  • EQs (Package type exemption, usually for small samples)
  • Dangerous goods (packaged in normal ways) being carried subject to ADR Transport Category vehicle load threshold exemption
  • Dangerous goods being carried by use of some of the ADR Special Provisions

I hope this helps you. :smiley:

And your mate. :wink:

13

Another brill ADR answer from DD, could you explain any differences(if any), for ISO tank containers for ADR and IMDG journeys?

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14

dieseldave:

Radar19:
Been having a little back and forth between some mates of mine regarding those hazardous diamonds you see on that ferry trailers. Now, they say you’re supposed to remove them as soon as you get the trailer because the powers that be can do you for carrying hazardous goods without displaying your ADR boards. I’ve always left them because they are only for sea going rules, not ADR rules.

Hi Radar19,

There’s so much that people have half remembered here that it’s difficult to know where to begin, but here goes… :smiley: :smiley:

It’s helpful to sort out our language first. :wink:

“those hazardous diamonds” are called placards [250mm X 250mm]
“ADR boards” are called orange coloured plates [400mm X 300mm (or 300mm X 120mm due to vehicle construction)]

ADR is the name of the Regulations that govern the carriage of dangerous goods by road
IMDG is the name of the Regulations that govern the carriage of dangerous goods by sea

Now we can get to the questions.

The rules for ISO containers are easy… ADR and IMDG both require an ISO container to be placarded on all four sides when it contains any amount of dangerous goods. (There are only a few very minor exceptions to this.)

Now we can consider collecting/delivering an ISO container to/from a port by road…

Normal ADR rules apply to the road leg of the journey, so the dangerous goods are either being carried using the LQ or small load exemptions OR the load is packaged in a normal way, so the 20, 333 or 1,000 ADR threshold limits apply to decide whether orange coloured plates are required to be displayed on the carrying vehicle. This doesn’t alter the blue writing above.

=============================

For a complete vehicle carrying dangerous goods which is itself going to be carried on a ferry, IMDG requires the blue writing above to be followed EXCEPT that a placard is NOT needed on the front of a complete vehicle.

=============================

For a vehicle which is going to drop off/collect a trailer for onward/incoming shipment to/from a ferry, IMDG requires the blue writing above to be followed as for ISO containers EXCEPT that it should be remembered that placards are allowed (but NOT required) by ADR during the road leg of the journey. For all UN Classes, except Classes 1 and 7, it is perfectly OK to place or remove placards on/from unaccompanied trailers at the port.

Dave’s IMDG tips:

  • If the ‘thing’ carrying dangerous goods going on a boat hasn’t got a windscreen, it needs four placards.
  • If the ‘thing’ carrying dangerous goods going on a boat has a windscreen, it needs three placards.
  • IMDG does not recognise ADR orange coloured plates, they ONLY use placards.
  • IMDG allows that ADR orange coloured plates may be left in place during a ferry crossing.

Radar19:
The reason this came about was because I passed a college when I had a full load of soft drinks on whilst still having the Class 3 diamond from earlier in the day still on the trailer. He questioned me about it in the yard later, asking why I didn’t have my ADR boards out. I replied that I didn’t need to remove them as I consider them only for when the trailer on a ship.

So, who is correct in this?

As has already been (correctly) mentioned, you must remove (or cover) placards/orange coloured plates when there are no dangerous goods on board a vehicle or ISO container.

Sorry mate, but you risked a prohibition for not doing so.

Your mate is incorrect with a blanket statement that you need orange coloured plates when carrying dangerous goods, because ADR has a quite a number of exemptions to that rule.

Orange coloured plates are not need when carrying:

  • LQs (Package type exemption, usually for retail goods)
  • EQs (Package type exemption, usually for small samples)
  • Dangerous goods (packaged in normal ways) being carried subject to ADR Transport Category vehicle load threshold exemption
  • Dangerous goods being carried by use of some of the ADR Special Provisions

I hope this helps you. :smiley:

And your mate. :wink:

I do love pedantic when the answer is correct, there is so much knowledge in this answer from DD it’s beyond excellent … if I ever did an ADR course, I would expect you as a trainer DD.

15

Boris1971:
Another brill ADR answer from DD, could you explain any differences(if any), for ISO tank containers for ADR and IMDG journeys?

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Hi Boris1971,

The rules for marking/placarding tank containers is slightly different when we make comparison between ADR and IMDG.

Under IMDG, tank containers must display:

  • Placards on all four sides
  • The UN number for the dangerous goods carried on all four sides
  • The Proper Shipping Name (PSN) for the dangerous goods carried on both sides

Under IMDG, placards and UN numbers can be displayed by either of the following two methods
(This example would be for the carriage of Petrol)

Image1small.jpg

Here is an example of the side view of a tank container correctly marked for IMDG:

Img_0107small.jpg

=================================

Under ADR, tank containers must display:

  • Placards on all four sides
  • Orange coloured plates [400mm X 300mm] containing the HIN (in the upper half) and the UN number (in the lower half) on both sides as in the example in the pic above.

HIN = Hazard Identification Number, which is a system of identifying the hazard(s) associated with the substance being carried. The HIN system is loosely based on the UN Class number, so the 60 means a toxic substance.

================================

In practice, the carriage of a tank container by road is usually multi-modal, so the 60/2078 plate would be shown on all four sides to comply with IMDG and ADR

Taking the example of Petrol from above, the ADR orange coloured plate showing HIN and UN number would look like this:

Image2.jpg

The HIN for Petrol shows ‘33’ meaning a highly flammable liquid, whereas the HIN for Diesel (being less flammable) would be ‘30.’

Dave’s HIN tip:
Double digit = double danger.

Now we can consider collecting/delivering an ISO tank container to/from a port by road…

For carriage on the road leg of the journey, normal (plain) ADR orange coloured plates are required to be displayed at the front and at the rear of the carrying vehicle.

For carriage of a cleaned/purged tank container, ALL placards and orange coloured plates MUST be removed OR covered.

16

discoman:
I do love pedantic when the answer is correct, there is so much knowledge in this answer from DD it’s beyond excellent … if I ever did an ADR course, I would expect you as a trainer DD.

I do my best. :blush: :blush: :blush: :smiley:

17

Less than a month until the March exams :open_mouth: :open_mouth:

18

March exams■■?

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19

GDSA exams

I feel sick already and still got 4 weeks to go

20

Thanks for reply DD. I know unlikely but if on a CDG journey would u require EAC in top column?, do u not need PSN on each side for CDG journey?, Thanks In advance for ridiculously thorough answer[emoji3].(tank container question).

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