will we be eligible to use TIR carnets post brexit?
No it’s not been invented yet nor has electronic cashless payment.All customs due on every load have to be cleared on the spot in cash paid by the driver to the relevant border staff at every border crossing.Including goods in transit.It must be true because the remainers say it is. 
Yes of course, and four days waiting for paperwork at the border, just like in the ‘good old days’.
Rentadent:
Yes of course, and four days waiting for paperwork at the border, just like in the ‘good old days’.
No need to be like that.
Technology will allow the Customs to take photos of our reg plates at the borders so we wont need to stop. When we get to the customer, all they have to do is tell the VAT man what goods theyve received and send the correct money.Electronically!
Foolproof ! With new electronic technology they will be no scope for tax fiddles will there?
Franglais:
Rentadent:
Yes of course, and four days waiting for paperwork at the border, just like in the ‘good old days’.No need to be like that.
Technology will allow the Customs to take photos of our reg plates at the borders so we won
t need to stop. When we get to the customer, all they have to do is tell the VAT man what goods theyve received and send the correct money.Electronically!
Foolproof ! With new electronic technology they will be no scope for tax fiddles will there?
Considering that drivers are using false numberplates to avoid paying for parking in the services I think I possibly see a flaw in your plan .
beefy4605:
Franglais:
Rentadent:
Yes of course, and four days waiting for paperwork at the border, just like in the ‘good old days’.No need to be like that.
Technology will allow the Customs to take photos of our reg plates at the borders so we won
t need to stop. When we get to the customer, all they have to do is tell the VAT man what goods theyve received and send the correct money.Electronically!
Foolproof ! With new electronic technology they will be no scope for tax fiddles will there?Considering that drivers are using false numberplates to avoid paying for parking in the services I think I possibly see a flaw in your plan .
I should have a “sarcastic, single-eye-brow-raised” emojie in there! These are the vague waffling plans of some Brexiteers of course.
Of course, we can trust traders to accurately report all dealings to HMRC, so no need to use false reg plates.
(ditto, sarky emojie).
Franglais:
all they have to do is tell the VAT man what goods they`ve received and send the correct money.
Isn’t that basically what happens with VAT now, hence the old cash in hand jobs, I don’t tell the taxman about his 20% and neither do you?
And what about goods subject to excise duty that are going from one EU country to another, are they stopped at each border for customs checks or do they use an electronic system to track the load and make sure the duty is paid to the relevant countries tax authority?
Franglais:
With new electronic technology they will be no scope for tax fiddles will there?
Is any system so robust it doesn’t offer opportunities for tax fiddles?
muckles:
Franglais:
all they have to do is tell the VAT man what goods they`ve received and send the correct money.Isn’t that basically what happens with VAT now, hence the old cash in hand jobs, I don’t tell the taxman about his 20% and neither do you?
And what about goods subject to excise duty that are going from one EU country to another, are they stopped at each border for customs checks or do they use an electronic system to track the load and make sure the duty is paid to the relevant countries tax authority?
Franglais:
With new electronic technology they will be no scope for tax fiddles will there?Is any system so robust it doesn’t offer opportunities for tax fiddles?
Goods subject to duties (booze and ciggies) do have extra documentation within the EU. They are normally only held in Customs approved warehouses, and without the docs, or outside of bonded warehousing are subject to seizure arent they? Currently HMRC, or rather the Gov, say VAT is not payable on other EU goods until sold, if from the EU, but VAT should be paid immediately if from outside the EU. If you say that doesnt seem consistent Id agree. Maybe its because we have close agreements within the EU to follow goods across border? We co-operate and see a paper trail through one administration. Its harder to produce goods and then receive monies without showing where they have gone. But if it seems it is currently necessary to charge VAT on non-EU imports immediately, post Brexit when EU goods fall into the same category it would be equally necessary. Of course the Gov can change its rules, but without one unified body overseeing trade will the UK be able to check on goods without increased checks?
Of course nothing is fiddle-free. But increasing the opportunity for fiddles without increasing the (costly) oversight, will surely only go one way.
Well the UK is eligible to use Tir-carnets now, as there are many places outside the EU that need cargo by trucks from UK now.
Almost every country that is not in the EU use Carnet de Passage already
Franglais:
muckles:
Franglais:
all they have to do is tell the VAT man what goods they`ve received and send the correct money.Isn’t that basically what happens with VAT now, hence the old cash in hand jobs, I don’t tell the taxman about his 20% and neither do you?
And what about goods subject to excise duty that are going from one EU country to another, are they stopped at each border for customs checks or do they use an electronic system to track the load and make sure the duty is paid to the relevant countries tax authority?
Franglais:
With new electronic technology they will be no scope for tax fiddles will there?Is any system so robust it doesn’t offer opportunities for tax fiddles?
Goods subject to duties (booze and ciggies) do have extra documentation within the EU. They are normally only held in Customs approved warehouses, and without the docs, or outside of bonded warehousing are subject to seizure aren`t they?
Depends if UK duty has been paid already, but they can be exported with UK duty paid and the duty claimed back.
We used to buy race fuel from the manufactures in Germany and have it shipped directly to circuit in other EU countries without issues, just got an invoice which included the destination countries excise duty.
Franglais:
Currently HMRC, or rather the Gov, say VAT is not payable on other EU goods until sold, if from the EU, but VAT should be paid immediately if from outside the EU. If you say that doesnt seem consistent Id agree. Maybe its because we have close agreements within the EU to follow goods across border? We co-operate and see a paper trail through one administration. Its harder to produce goods and then receive monies without showing where they have gone. But if it seems it is currently necessary to charge VAT on non-EU imports immediately, post Brexit when EU goods fall into the same category it would be equally necessary. Of course the Gov can change it`s rules, but without one unified body overseeing trade will the UK be able to check on goods without increased checks?
Of course nothing is fiddle-free. But increasing the opportunity for fiddles without increasing the (costly) oversight, will surely only go one way.
The EU is proposing to change that so that VAT will now be charged on cross-border trade between businesses within the EU as the present system has been far to open to abuse and also using an online system for declarations and payments. This all sounds a bit familiar to what others on here are being ridiculed for suggesting.
The major hurdle as I see it is not that these things couldn’t work, but the lack of progress in negotiations on how we are going to trade. I personally always thought the 2 year limit for leaving the EU, which is part of the Lisbon treaty not a UK thing, was completely unrealistic.
muckles:
Depends if UK duty has been paid already, but they can be exported with UK duty paid and the duty claimed back.
We used to buy race fuel from the manufactures in Germany and have it shipped directly to circuit in other EU countries without issues, just got an invoice which included the destination countries excise duty.
Im sure that will work well. But with large amounts of goods in a commercial enterprise paying taxes and duties before receiving payment from end customers would increase cash flow issues wouldnt it? Extra expense for companies.
muckles:
The EU is proposing to change that so that VAT will now be charged on cross-border trade between businesses within the EU as the present system has been far to open to abuse and also using an online system for declarations and payments. This all sounds a bit familiar to what others on here are being ridiculed for suggesting.The major hurdle as I see it is not that these things couldn’t work, but the lack of progress in negotiations on how we are going to trade. I personally always thought the 2 year limit for leaving the EU, which is part of the Lisbon treaty not a UK thing, was completely unrealistic.
Yep. Im not saying such a system is impossible in the future. But those (even in Government) who speak as if in March 2019 itll all be up and running, are in cloud-cuckoo-land. And note that such a system is being proposed within the same Customs zone. Would the EU give us info from their member countries, and would everyone here be happy to share the tax affairs of a UK company with a foreign entity. If we leave and dont even recognise each others courts where will even basic trade disputes go?
Yes, there are fixes to problems, but they are surely ll more difficult and time consuming, and more expensive when across different administrations?
EDIT Typos
As member of the EU, the UK is included in the Geneva TIR agreement.
That won’t necessarily be the case if we leave the EU without agreement.
The RHA has published loads on this…it’s all alarmist project fear nonsense of course, because our brave boys will storm the channel just like we did in 1944 and teach those foreigners a lesson they won’t forget…or something.
We’ll still want to buy their wine, cars, trucks, tyres, butter, cheese etc. They will still want to buy our…er…heritage shortcakes. No need to panic. May’s just signed a trade deal with some African countries, that’ll do us. Nigel Farage for London mayor, Putin for PM, Trump for Queen etc etc.
GasGas:
As member of the EU, the UK is included in the Geneva TIR agreement.That won’t necessarily be the case if we leave the EU without agreement.
The UK was a member of the TIR before it joined the EU and EU membership isn’t a requirement for TIR member status or it would obviously defeat the bleedin object of it.So exactly why would we lose that status if/when we leave the EU ?.More remainer project fear bs which is now reaching laughably desperate levels.
So, at what point will it be decided whether we take our ‘share’ of the EU allocation of permits, or decide to negotiate our own.
Regarding transport and Brexit, all the government has done so far is harden the hard shoulder on the M20 and arrange to hire some portable toilets to deal with the queue which will go back to the M25, and beyond.
As previously said: the UK’s membership of the EU is of little importance to me. But I am shocked at the shambolic preparations being made. So far, there is no new infrastructure, no new IT, and no new staff.
The question of the Irish border has not been answered. Indeed, it has not even been addressed properly.
Professional voices such as the FTA, RHA, are making repeated warnings about the lack of preparation.
Brexit appears to have halved the value of a leading British company
theguardian.com/business/20 … it-jitters
But so long as Rees-Mogg, Farage and BlowJoe say everything will work out (even though none of them hold Government office and therefore don’t know what’s going on) then that’s all that matters to some.
Have a nice read of the Sunday Express and imagine the sweet smell of your new blue British passport (faint whiff of garlic, because it will be printed En France) if it ever gets through Customs.
GasGas:
So, at what point will it be decided whether we take our ‘share’ of the EU allocation of permits, or decide to negotiate our own.Regarding transport and Brexit, all the government has done so far is harden the hard shoulder on the M20 and arrange to hire some portable toilets to deal with the queue which will go back to the M25, and beyond.
As previously said: the UK’s membership of the EU is of little importance to me. But I am shocked at the shambolic preparations being made. So far, there is no new infrastructure, no new IT, and no new staff.
The question of the Irish border has not been answered. Indeed, it has not even been addressed properly.
Professional voices such as the FTA, RHA, are making repeated warnings about the lack of preparation.
Brexit appears to have halved the value of a leading British company
theguardian.com/business/20 … it-jitters
But so long as Rees-Mogg, Farage and BlowJoe say everything will work out (even though none of them hold Government office and therefore don’t know what’s going on) then that’s all that matters to some.
Have a nice read of the Sunday Express and imagine the sweet smell of your new blue British passport (faint whiff of garlic, because it will be printed En France) if it ever gets through Customs.
Obviously being a remainer you well know the reason for the so called ‘shambolic preperations’.That obviously being not shambles but sabotage by remainer May.In the hope that we’ll all start to believe the increasingly desperate remainer project fear bs and change our minds and say lets remain in the Federal zb pile after all.
As for Biffa and Brexit.We can add the even more bonkers idea that a domestic waste carrier would be affected in the slightest by Brexit to the already silly idea that it will be impossible to cross between UK and EU without having to wait a month or two at Dover or Calais for clearance. 
GasGas:
So, at what point will it be decided whether we take our ‘share’ of the EU allocation of permits, or decide to negotiate our own.
‘Our share’ would obviously be expected to be 50% of all loads originating from or destined for here.It’s not rocket science.But we can bet the RHA will say it’s so much better to go on letting East Euro third country operators move most of it rather than Brits.
GasGas:
So, at what point will it be decided whether we take our ‘share’ of the EU allocation of permits, or decide to negotiate our own.Regarding transport and Brexit, all the government has done so far is harden the hard shoulder on the M20 and arrange to hire some portable toilets to deal with the queue which will go back to the M25, and beyond.
As previously said: the UK’s membership of the EU is of little importance to me. But I am shocked at the shambolic preparations being made. So far, there is no new infrastructure, no new IT, and no new staff.
The question of the Irish border has not been answered. Indeed, it has not even been addressed properly.
Professional voices such as the FTA, RHA, are making repeated warnings about the lack of preparation.
Brexit appears to have halved the value of a leading British company
theguardian.com/business/20 … it-jitters
But so long as Rees-Mogg, Farage and BlowJoe say everything will work out (even though none of them hold Government office and therefore don’t know what’s going on) then that’s all that matters to some.
Have a nice read of the Sunday Express and imagine the sweet smell of your new blue British passport (faint whiff of garlic, because it will be printed En France) if it ever gets through Customs.
Much depends on which sources you look at, but in Oct 2017, 10 Downing said 5.000 extra customs staff would be needed. No mention of funding in these times of austerity. So far, depending on sources, the Dutch are training 750 or more, France 250-ish, and the UK in July (FoI request by the i) said it didn`t know how many front line staff it had!
And here we are AGAIN, back stabbing politicos waving their arms, telling us ignorant ordinary folk not to worry and everything will be fine, as they ignore the country, in order to gain personal advancement.
Here’s the plan so far. we can fall back on the Vienna convention, and we are going to have to have a system to register trailers with their own number plate etchttp://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5b8bfbb051c09/CBP-8297.pdf
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chrisdalott:
Here’s the plan so far. we can fall back on the Vienna convention, and we are going to have to have a system to register trailers with their own number plate etchttp://cloud.tapatalk.com/s/5b8bfbb051c09/CBP-8297.pdfSent from my WAS-LX1A using Tapatalk
Not working, so go here and view the pdf researchbriefings.parliament.uk … y/CBP-7633
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