This slipped by unnoticed

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

Carryfast:
:open_mouth: Which part of living in (what should be) a capitalist economy don’t you understand.
The problem is that the guvnors don’t want to pay a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work even for a single person to keep themselves let alone for a husband to keep a wife and family as nature intended.

I dont think that there is any need to jump on my back because i dont agree wholly with your thatcheresque thinking.
If i was doing what nature intended i would not be working (:shock: I am a woman!) and be another drain on this governments already verty stretched funds when it comes to benefits.
Funny that thatcher was a working woman, maybe she should never have become prime minister and stayed at home done the dishes.
Why don’t you wake up and get in to this century carry fast because quike frankly ive had enough of your 70’s 80’s drivel.
Youre entitled to your opinion but dont shove it down peoples throats
Sent from my HTC ChaCha A810e using Tapatalk 2

62

oddzpop:

Carryfast:
:open_mouth: Which part of living in (what should be) a capitalist economy don’t you understand.
The problem is that the guvnors don’t want to pay a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work even for a single person to keep themselves let alone for a husband to keep a wife and family as nature intended.

I dont think that there is any need to jump on my back because i dont agree wholly with your thatcheresque thinking.
If i was doing what nature intended i would not be working (:shock: I am a woman!) and be another drain on this governments already verty stretched funds when it comes to benefits.
Funny that thatcher was a working woman, maybe she should never have become prime minister and stayed at home done the dishes.
Why don’t you wake up and get in to this century carry fast because quike frankly ive had enough of your 70’s 80’s drivel.
Youre entitled to your opinion but dont shove it down peoples throats
Sent from my HTC ChaCha A810e using Tapatalk 2

Blimey me a Thatcherite. :open_mouth: :unamused: :laughing:

What I’ve been saying,if you’d have read it all,is that we need a 1960’s US type Fordist economy in which we don’t import stuff which we can make for ourselves.So we’d have high employment and workers being paid enough to look after themselves and their own families without needing to rely on the state and in which there would be no champaign socialists calling for a council house,which they then flog on the private market to make a bit of profit using other people’s money while at the same time calling everyone else scroungers and moaning about ‘greedy’ trade unionists who were busy fighting to get enough money out of the guvnors to buy their own place and,if they’d have had the sense,enough money to afford their own decent private health and income protection insurance in addition to enough to allow the wife to not need to work in order to earn the two incomes needed to run one household in the commy type Britain and the global free market economy which Thatcher and Reagan actually built.

But just think what might have been if Thatcher had been a good looking working class girl who’d preferred to stay at home and raise her kids from when she was a teenager. :smiley: :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing:

63

If its so simple a fix why isnt the government doing this now?
Surely if it is so easy to reinstate something that happened 40-50 years ago. Why arent they doing it?
Why was the building of the olympic stadium in london sourced to an aussie company because it was X amount cheaper, rather than realising that it would create employment (thus people paying taxes into our system)
I suppose they’ve done it on a loan scheme so that the few working class people already starved of their earnings can pay a bit more tax to lease it off them for the next 50years.

I’ve given up with the way things are going, no matter how much we petetion, write to mp’s and complain i cant see it changing any time soon.
Hence why I’m off now to think of fairies and unicorns because there is more chance of those appearing than the once “Great” Britain changing into a fair, equal and self supporting economy

Oddz

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64

As i said 2 ways to fix it continue spending /borrowing money , or get real, and cut the cost of living so the £ becomes worth a lot more,so big wages are not needed to live a everyday comfortable lifestyle, houses need to be a lot cheaper, and the country needs to ditch is obsession with owning a house, bankers should be forced to pay back what they borrowed and until they have no bonuses to be paid, infact that industry needs a massive overhaul , The NHS services should only be available to those who are english or have been legal resident in this country for 5yrs or more,But the NHS should stay and never become privatised
The lets get egged and the state will house and feed me attitude among some young women needs addressing why should the state pay for them ,and continue to pay for it, so they can have their little gatherings in the afternoon drinking lambrini ,lol
And we need to re create industry again, if we are ever to cut the number of the unemployed which would also feed the economy, not whine and just pick on the most vulnerable in society in a bid to score brownie points in the news, as the jobless sick/disabled are the softest targets ,
Cameron is a tool he thinks he can continue where thatcher left off, he really is deluded, if she had stayed in power for much longer it would of been a matter of time before someone topped her, in fact her head should of been cut of and put on a pole just as the people did back in history when the other prime minister introduced a similar tax to the poll tax, they all tend to forget too easily that they work for us,not themselves

65

tommy t:
As i said 2 ways to fix it continue spending /borrowing money , or get real, and cut the cost of living so the £ becomes worth a lot more,so big wages are not needed to live a everyday comfortable lifestyle, houses need to be a lot cheaper, and the country needs to ditch is obsession with owning a house, bankers should be forced to pay back what they borrowed and until they have no bonuses to be paid, infact that industry needs a massive overhaul , The NHS services should only be available to those who are english or have been legal resident in this country for 5yrs or more,But the NHS should stay and never become privatised
The lets get egged and the state will house and feed me attitude among some young women needs addressing why should the state pay for them ,and continue to pay for it, so they can have their little gatherings in the afternoon drinking lambrini ,lol
And we need to re create industry again, if we are ever to cut the number of the unemployed which would also feed the economy, not whine and just pick on the most vulnerable in society in a bid to score brownie points in the news, as the jobless sick/disabled are the softest targets ,
Cameron is a tool he thinks he can continue where thatcher left off, he really is deluded, if she had stayed in power for much longer it would of been a matter of time before someone topped her, in fact her head should of been cut of and put on a pole just as the people did back in history when the other prime minister introduced a similar tax to the poll tax, they all tend to forget too easily that they work for us,not themselves

It’s all about the economy providing sufficient incomes to provide self sufficiency in housing,health care and social security provision.

On that criterea Thatcher was more a communist than a conservative.A bit like those who’d prefer state provision of housing and social provision and as usual think that only they have the right to decide who’s face fits in getting it or not.Although it was no suprise that those who’d shouted loudest for state provided housing instead of private home ownership were the first with their noses in the trough when Thatcher effectively gave them a state funded house for them to take private ownership of.

There’d be a lot less of those young women needing state provision to afford to raise their families if the fathers of their kids could find a well paid job to support them themselves.

The country needs a capitalist Fordist economy not deflation and a house price crash followed by a socialist one. :unamused:

66

But the Thatcher legacy needs to end as house prices are far too high,as the average wage is no where near enough to pay a mortgage council tax and fuel bills. so instead some greedy landlord’s get rich instead thatcher helped create that culture ,now is the time for that trend to end, it’s run its course And local councils should be forced to build some quality social housing, not replicate some of the older styles or locations, and not be allowed to sell it for 30yrs or more and for each one they sell,they have to build another,
Limit the number of migrant workers and be more selective regarding their skills ect so it does not have a negative impact , a radical overhaul on the current asylum regulations , UKBA should be given more power in this area ,so loopholes can be closed and the number of deportations increased cut the red tape too, these are some things that they should be spending money on, not the new snooping bill, that they think is more important, told you ca- moron had lost the plot

67

Well…for all those who want to return to pre-Victorian times…go ahead, but don’t insist that everyone else follows you.
@Carryfast:
As for returning to “Fordist” capitalism, hope you get what you pray for. Then you will experience what real “Capitalism” is all about…and it aint all “Milk and Honey” as you will see by the deterioration in wages living conditions, health etc.
For those of you who advocate a return to slavery! Go ahead…enjoy … but don’t condemn the majority of the population to the same. FFS!

68

tommy t:
But the Thatcher legacy needs to end as house prices are far too high,as the average wage is no where near enough to pay a mortgage council tax and fuel bills. so instead some greedy landlord’s get rich instead thatcher helped create that culture ,now is the time for that trend to end, it’s run its course And local councils should be forced to build some quality social housing, not replicate some of the older styles or locations, and not be allowed to sell it for 30yrs or more and for each one they sell,they have to build another,
Limit the number of migrant workers and be more selective regarding their skills ect so it does not have a negative impact , a radical overhaul on the current asylum regulations , UKBA should be given more power in this area ,so loopholes can be closed and the number of deportations increased cut the red tape too, these are some things that they should be spending money on, not the new snooping bill, that they think is more important, told you ca- moron had lost the plot

It’s not house prices that are too high it’s wages that are too low.There’s no shortage of housing for sale it’s just that in the global free market economy people can’t earn enough to afford to buy it assuming they’ve even got a job that hasn’t been outsourced to China.

But as for covering the countryside in council estates and turning small market towns like Kingston into inner city ghettoes we’ve already been there done that in Surrey and all it did was turn much of the county into ‘Greater London’ where no one with any sense really wants to live even if they can afford the prices which,no surprise,are actually no different if not higher,for an equivalent house,than further out in what’s left of the county,that still exists without it having been turned into an urban sprawl (yet). :unamused: :imp:

Spain has actually gone down the road of overdevelopment and urbanisation on a massive sale which has caused a house price crash just like Ireland.All it did was put the economy further into debt and create even more homeless people who can’t afford the newly built empty houses at any price. :unamused: :unamused:

But the only reason why Thatcher succeeded was because of the typical hypocricy of those who wanted state provided housing for themselves but weren’t so keen on the idea when they were given the chance to make some profit out of their state provided housing by flogging it off on the private market after Thatcher had effectively given it away to them.Many of those being the same champaign socialists who supported her ideas on clamping down on the type of trade union actions which had previously provided the growth in living standards acheived between the 1930’s to the 1970’s which allowed workers to (rightly) fund their own private housing with no help from the state.

Socialism is just a load of hypocritical bs that goes against human nature.However if we’re going to have capitalism then it’s better that it’s the Fordist type of Capitalism not the Victorian type let alone Thatcher’s version of communism which benefitted a few council house tenants and the Chinese not the British economy. :imp: :unamused:

69

Solly:
Well…for all those who want to return to pre-Victorian times…go ahead, but don’t insist that everyone else follows you.
@Carryfast:
As for returning to “Fordist” capitalism, hope you get what you pray for. Then you will experience what real “Capitalism” is all about…and it aint all “Milk and Honey” as you will see by the deterioration in wages living conditions, health etc.
For those of you who advocate a return to slavery! Go ahead…enjoy … but don’t condemn the majority of the population to the same. FFS!

1950’s/60’s America wasn’t exactly like Victorian or even 1950’s Britain.Whereas it’s the Reagan and Thatcher global free market economy that is sending both country’s economies back to the Victorian era. :bulb:

70

@Carryfast

I’m wondering if you are confusing “Fordism” as a “Socio-economic theory” within the confines of a “Capitalist” economy and society rather than within a “Socialist” economy and society as I understand it was intended by Ford.

71

Solly:
@Carryfast

I’m wondering if you are confusing “Fordism” as a “Socio-economic theory” within the confines of a “Capitalist” economy and society rather than within a “Socialist” economy and society as I understand it was intended by Ford.

I don’t think that the idea of Fordism and Socialism are even compatible with each other at all.Which is probably why Ford never set up Ford Russia unlike Ford USA and Ford Great Britain. :bulb:

It’s also one of the reasons why I turned my back on the whole bs socialist cause that existed within the trade union movement when I was a teenager together with the idea of state funded (controlled) housing and state funded (controlled) social security and health care.You only need to see the support here for the idea of making the long term unemployed work for their benefits instead of being payed a fair day’s pay for a fair day’s work and what happened when Thatcher dangled the carrot of a privatised state funded house,for those who’s face had fitted in getting one to start with,to understand the hypocricy contained in human nature which is why socialism will never work.

Whereas a decent Fordist economy,within the capitalist system,in which the sole aim of trade unionism is to maintain living standards and to provide workers with sufficient funds to look after themselves without state involvement,has been proved to be doable within the US economy of the 1960’s. :bulb:

72

“Fordism” and “Socialism” are very compatible according to “Marxist Theory”. Again I suspect you are…as many others do…confuse “Socialism” with “Communism”. They are not relative in any way and are vastly different.
Problem is…especially in the '60s… the capitalist paymasters of governments convinced them they were exactly the same, hence the brainwashing of the general public into believing the same… from primary school onwards.
It hasn’t changed since.
Returning to the OP…if anyone believes working or being forced to work for nothing is a good thing…buy a one-way ticket to China or surrounding geographical locations take up non-paying employment then send us post-cards of your experiences.
Should make interesting reading. :frowning:

73

Solly:
“Fordism” and “Socialism” are very compatible according to “Marxist Theory”. Again I suspect you are…as many others do…confuse “Socialism” with “Communism”. They are not relative in any way and are vastly different.
Problem is…especially in the '60s… the capitalist paymasters of governments convinced them they were exactly the same, hence the brainwashing of the general public into believing the same… from primary school onwards.
It hasn’t changed since.
Returning to the OP…if anyone believes working or being forced to work for nothing is a good thing…buy a one-way ticket to China or surrounding geographical locations take up non-paying employment then send us post-cards of your experiences.
Should make interesting reading. :frowning:

Sorry solly but there’s no way that Socialism and Communism are different things.Which is why Russia named itself the USSR not the USCR and it’s also why Russia backed Cuba (Socialist) and China (Communist).It’s also why the young generation of Americans were driving to work in Mustangs etc and going home to a privately bought house with their incomes and health care covered by private insurance during the 1960’s while the Russians and Chinese weren’t.While as usual the British didn’t have a clue and tried to mix both ideologies which is on of the reasons why we’re where we are now.

Ironically that young generation of 1960’s Americans would have been even better off and 50,000 of them wouldn’t have died for nothing if they hadn’t bothered with trying to make the Chinese in Indo China into Fordist capitalists. :bulb: :frowning:

As for your final paragraph directed to the OP ^ + 1.

74

Carryfast:
Sorry solly but there’s no way that Socialism and Communism are different things…etc.

As for your final paragraph directed to the OP ^ + 1.

Then I’m sorry to have to say it, but all I can say in reply to that statement is that the education and media systems employed by capitalist states has worked on you as it has on many others.
This quote by Thatcher turns “Socialism” and “Capitalism” upside down. It also serves to illustrate what I quoted above about the education and media systems. Quite funny really don’t you think? :smiley:

“Idleness, selfishness, fecklessness, envy and irresponsibility are the vices upon which socialism in any form flourishes and which it in turn encourages. But socialism’s devilishly clever tactic is to play up to all those human failings, while making those who practise them feel good about it” [Margaret Thatcher, Nicholas Ridley Memorial Lecture]

75

Solly:

Carryfast:
Sorry solly but there’s no way that Socialism and Communism are different things…etc.

As for your final paragraph directed to the OP ^ + 1.

Then I’m sorry to have to say it, but all I can say in reply to that statement is that the education and media systems employed by capitalist states has worked on you as it has on many others.
This quote by Thatcher turns “Socialism” and “Capitalism” upside down. It also serves to illustrate what I quoted above about the education and media systems. Quite funny really don’t you think? :smiley:

“Idleness, selfishness, fecklessness, envy and irresponsibility are the vices upon which socialism in any form flourishes and which it in turn encourages. But socialism’s devilishly clever tactic is to play up to all those human failings, while making those who practise them feel good about it” [Margaret Thatcher, Nicholas Ridley Memorial Lecture]

It wasn’t the media that changed my mind about the meaning of socialism I sorted it all out for myself.

The description here of the Soviet Union being a Socialist Constitution run by the Communist Party proves my point that socialism and communism are one and the same thing.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union

That’s a fact that has nothing whatsoever to do with Thatcherite and Reaganomics media misinformation which was,and continues to be,used to bring the western economies to their knees for the benefit of the Chinese Communist Party and ex Russian Socialists/Communists like Putin etc.

No surprise that Thatcher tried to use subterfuge in order to drag us all down the tubes of the global free market economy which did as much to help the Chinese Communist Party as the Russian Communist Party ever did.Thatcher’s idea,of effectively giving away state funded housing,to the so called ‘socialists’ who occupied them,for their own private gain,says everything about her real agenda in which her own comments were based on her own thinking,her own policies and her own agenda.Thatcher and Reagan were in fact Socialists/Communists as much as any Russian Socialist/Communist Party member. :open_mouth: :bulb: :imp:

Yes she was correct in what she was saying about socialism but the irony is that she was speaking using her own personal views being that she was as much a socialist as any Thatcher supporting ‘socialist’,anti trade uion,council house tenant,of the late 1970’s/80s.As I’ve said that’s the difference between the thinking of the average American UAW member of the 1960’s compared to the average Thatcher voter in 1979 and the modern equivalent today in which they are happy enough to want everyone else to have to work for nothing and have no access to so called state benefits except themselves if/whenever they need want to claim on them.That’s typical socialist thinking just as Thatcher said. :bulb:

76

Now then,now then “CF”,I believe that an accomplished World Statesman like your goodself should be seconded to Greece at the moment to help them extricate themselves from the Euro,and as this wouldn’t cause you too much difficulty with Greece only accounting for around 2 or 3% of the European economy you could then transfer your un-rivalled political skills to sorting out Spain and Italy!!Cheers Bewick.

77

Bewick:
Now then,now then “CF”,I believe that an accomplished World Statesman like your goodself should be seconded to Greece at the moment to help them extricate themselves from the Euro,and as this wouldn’t cause you too much difficulty with Greece only accounting for around 2 or 3% of the European economy you could then transfer your un-rivalled political skills to sorting out Spain and Italy!!Cheers Bewick.

If I remember right Bewick they were all better off before they joined the EU and when they all had their own mickey mouse currencies and managed to live on what they could manage to sell amongst themselves and to everyone else for a few million Drachma,Lira or Pasetas,not on Euros borrowed from the German banks in which it’s obvious that the Germans will want their money back with interest. :bulb: :smiling_imp: :wink: :laughing:

78

Carryfast:

Bewick:
Now then,now then “CF”,I believe that an accomplished World Statesman like your goodself should be seconded to Greece at the moment to help them extricate themselves from the Euro,and as this wouldn’t cause you too much difficulty with Greece only accounting for around 2 or 3% of the European economy you could then transfer your un-rivalled political skills to sorting out Spain and Italy!!Cheers Bewick.

If I remember right Bewick they were all better off before they joined the EU and when they all had their own mickey mouse currencies and managed to live on what they could manage to sell amongst themselves and to everyone else for a few million Drachma,Lira or Pasetas,not on Euros borrowed from the German banks in which it’s obvious that the Germans will want their money back with interest. :bulb: :smiling_imp: :wink: :laughing:

Your dead right( well,just for once!!) there mate,I can just imagine that opening shot for Dads Army,where the Jerrys are all over the continent and we are on our own (again) !! I just bet Gordon Brown (■■■■■■■ will claim the “brownies” for keeping us out of the poxy Euro but he only did it because his arch enemy Blair wanted us in,it had nothing to do with sound economics as Brown couldn’t run a welk stall,which he proved by the mess he left when he was slung out.But unfortunately these tossers that are in power now are not a lot better.I’m determined to vote UKIP at the next G/election and if a lot more would do likewise we could really shake the “establishment” up!!! Cheers Bewick.

79

@Carryfast

C’m-o-n mate! So where exactly did you get the information…if not from the “Mainstream Media”… that “Changed your mind”?
It’s nigh on…if not… impossible to form an opinion on anything without some reference to it. Even academic researchers have to refer to some form of media… don’t they?

80

@Bewick

UKIP seem to be the only alternative at present unless Labour return to their roots which seems unlikely any time in the near future.