My mate had a class 2 licence from years ago before the rules changed. This allowed him to drive a wagon & Drag. When the rules changed he was given what they call a restricted class 1 licence, this would allow him to continue to drive his wagon & drag but he would need to sit the C+E in order to drive an artic. This is where it all gets daft.
If he wants his proper class one he needs to do his C+E test. So he can turn up to the testing station in his wagon & drag, without L plates, because he already has a licence to drive it, and take his test in this vehicle that he is already licenced to drive, and get his C+E entitlement!
Artic has a trailer; wagon and drag has a trailer. That’s all the suits see; they then put the rules in place, and wait for the inevitable inconsistencies to crop up, of which your example is a classic.
Speck:
My mate had a class 2 licence from years ago before the rules changed. This allowed him to drive a wagon & Drag. When the rules changed he was given what they call a restricted class 1 licence, this would allow him to continue to drive his wagon & drag but he would need to sit the C+E in order to drive an artic. This is where it all gets daft.
If he wants his proper class one he needs to do his C+E test. So he can turn up to the testing station in his wagon & drag, without L plates, because he already has a licence to drive it, and take his test in this vehicle that he is already licenced to drive, and get his C+E entitlement!
What bloody idiot makes these rules up?
I’ve mentioned this weird situation before on this site.
It is when the GB regs changed to EU regs.
The old GB regs allowed a HGV class 3 rigid to be allowed to tow a trailer (DRAG).
The old GB regs for HGV class 1 were for articulated.
HGV class 2 was for rigids with more than 2 axles for anyone interested
EU regs listed all rigid trucks over 7.5 tonne as C
The +E bit refers to an ‘attached’ trailer so as a C artic unit and a C rigid are now the same, when a trailer is attached they both become C+E
As you rightly point out, anyone with one of the old GB HGV class 3 or 2 entitlement can pull a DRAG.
I think there has already been at least one occasion where the holder of this old entitlement has taken their W&D to a test station for a C+E test, passed it and can then drive an artic.
In a few more years, when the drivers who have this old entitlement have gone to the ‘Breakers yard’, the situation will be no more.
Its not iffy at all, as I am sure Rog will confirm, it was to allow those who were driving wagon & drags before the rules changed to continue to do so. Its just that it wasn’t thought through by the suits and this is the result.
Wheel Nut:
It is even more confusing when you get to the Dartford tunnel, a 44 tonne artic costs £2.90 but a drawbar outfit running at 44 tonne has to pay twice.
Both trucks are pulling one trailer
And if you go through with just a tractor unit, its £1.80, same as a Ford Fiesta van!
I’ve never seen one so I don’t know - I would GUESS that a modren licence with that old entitlement on it had C or maybe C+E with a restriction code of some sort at the side of it
nope it just has cat C+E and the valid dates, the only 102 restriction is on the back of photo card, i have heard of people with this restriction getting a full C+E back when renewing license in the past by mistake.
dbcooper:
nope it just has cat C+E and the valid dates, the only 102 restriction is on the back of photo card, i have heard of people with this restriction getting a full C+E back when renewing license in the past by mistake.
Sounds like that mistake is easy to do without having the C+E provisional listed
when the categorys changed ,there was a debate as to whether or not to upgrade all hgv classes to C+E under grandfather rights, but the main trade bodies and others thought it would be a negative step, as a lot of class 3 drivers would be able to drive artics with no training so the 102 restriction was applied.
dbcooper:
when the categorys changed ,there was a debate as to whether or not to upgrade all hgv classes to C+E under grandfather rights, but the main trade bodies and others thought it would be a negative step, as a lot of class 3 drivers would be able to drive artics with no training so the 102 restriction was applied.
IMO, what they should have done is - ask for proof that the driver had experience of driving a W&D and then given them full C+E and then those that could not prove it - restrict them to C.
thats what they did before with the old 10 and 12 tonners that were under 3ton unladen,you got your employer to sign a paper confirming you had been driving these vehicles on your car license, then got granted a restricted class 3 under grandfather rights, i remember that everyone who knew someone with lorries got one
ROG:
I think there has already been at least one occasion where the holder of this old entitlement has taken their W&D to a test station for a C+E test, passed it and can then drive an artic.
Speck:
My mate had a class 2 licence from years ago before the rules changed. This allowed him to drive a wagon & Drag. When the rules changed he was given what they call a restricted class 1 licence, this would allow him to continue to drive his wagon & drag but he would need to sit the C+E in order to drive an artic. This is where it all gets daft.
If he wants his proper class one he needs to do his C+E test. So he can turn up to the testing station in his wagon & drag, without L plates, because he already has a licence to drive it, and take his test in this vehicle that he is already licenced to drive, and get his C+E entitlement!
What bloody idiot makes these rules up?
before i answer, i dont know how easy it is,
my mate took his license to italy, and swapped it for an italian one, then swapped it back when he came home.
he had family there sort out the leg work, and then went on holiday, swapped licenses and came home with full C+E
dbcooper:
thats what they did before with the old 10 and 12 tonners that were under 3ton unladen,you got your employer to sign a paper confirming you had been driving these vehicles on your car license, then got granted a restricted class 3 under grandfather rights, i remember that everyone who knew someone with lorries got one
quite right there, when the law changed everybody in my family that had a car license got an hgv license even the women courtesy of the family haulage business
the vast majority of the fleet were 6 wheel rigids, but he had 2 artics at the time and i think half the population of bolton drove them artics
when the categorys changed ,there was a debate as to whether or not to upgrade all hgv classes to C+E under grandfather rights, but the main trade bodies and others thought it would be a negative step, as a lot of class 3 drivers would be able to drive artics with no training so the 102 restriction was applied.
once again you’re correct, but i remember the rule changes before this one, i was at nccs/exel at the time and the twist in the law then allowed our class 2 drivers to drive an artic with only a single axle trailer(24t)
we had a few of them so i and another driver gave up a few weekends to train our mates up and they then started driving the 24t artics.
when the law was changed/tightened up they got class 1 through grandfather rights.
so the 102 restriction was applied.
