This agency thing

[limeyphil]

what is it with drivers, and agencies?
you hear so much [zb] about dodgy agencies. it’s like a stuck record.
but drivers still sign up to them, instead of looking for what i would call a “proper job”.
the drivers say: “it gives them the freedom to work when they want”.
but this isn’t the case, if you are lucky enough to get some work from one of these cowboys, then you say you can’t do it, they won’t give you any more work. so bang goes the theory of freedom to work when you want to.

this isn’t a pop at agency drivers. agencies used to get people a foot in the door, then you prove yourself and the haulier might take you on permanent.
i’ve never worked for an agency, so all i know is what i’ve read on here, or been told by others.

[tachograph]

In theory I agree with you 100%, but the reality of it is that there just aren’t enough directly employed jobs about and the reason is because so many companies are finding it favourable to use agency drivers.

To be honest I can’t figure out the financial benefit to companies, whilst they certainly gain by using agency drivers for seasonal work many companies are using agencies for a high proportion of the ongoing work … you figure it out I can’t

[limeyphil]

tachograph:
In theory I agree with you 100%, but the reality of it is that there just aren’t enough directly employed jobs about and the reason is because so many companies are finding it favourable to use agency drivers.

To be honest I can’t figure out the financial benefit to companies, whilst they certainly gain by using agency drivers for seasonal work many companies are using agencies for a high proportion of the ongoing work … you figure it out I can’t

i met a guy a the hollies a few years ago. he had been tramping for willi betz for four years, through an agency.
definately dosn’t add up.

[tachograph]

I know people who have been on the same agency contract for ten years or more, it suits them because they get more money but how the companies justify it I’ve no idea, I mean, if a job is ongoing for years then surely it would pay the employer to employ people directly.

[del949]

I could understand companies using agencies for long term jobs if it was difficult to sack people in the UK. but it isn’t, it’s easier to get rid of surplus staff in the UK than it is in france and germany and they don’t seem to have the same issues with agencies.
I can’t see how the economics of it add up, even taking into account holiday pay , insurance etc etc.
I bet for every one person who works for an agency because they enjoy the “freedom” , there are 100 that do it because they have no choice.

[bald_bloke]

Usually when I start in the morning there can be more agency bods starting than actual employees.

[stanley_mitchell]

tachograph:
In theory I agree with you 100%, but the reality of it is that there just aren’t enough directly employed jobs about and the reason is because so many companies are finding it favourable to use agency drivers.

To be honest I can’t figure out the financial benefit to companies, whilst they certainly gain by using agency drivers for seasonal work many companies are using agencies for a high proportion of the ongoing work … you figure it out I can’t

It ain`t rocket science, using an agency for a fair slice of your work force is, to put it mildly, letting somebody else deal with the hassle, to employ someone today is an expensive undertaking, with all the rules/regulations ect., it “may” cost more on paper, but, have you looked at what it costs to employ someone

An agency invoice is a tax deductable expense, to employ someone is a direct cost to the business, and, in the words of a major customer of mine, NOT tax efficient, and, if an agency driver does something stupid, you just tell the agency not to send him/her in again, if its one of your own men/women, you have to start the whole cycle of discipline action, a nightmare in anybody`s book.

One of my customer`s actually took on 20 drivers in september, they have “lost” two already, with another two are on “last orders”, these are lads who were great as agency, but, soon as their feet were under the table, they turned into right clowns, bolshy annoying workshy idiots, they are now having a re-think on employing drivers direct

And, with the economy as it is, if your quiet, you lay off the agency lads PDQ, saving bundles

TBF, I do not understand why companies let agency drivers rack up the hours, and, let their own men go home after 8/10 hours, quoting WTD as the reason, surely, it would be cheaper to work your own harder, and, let the agency take up the slack, I`m not complaining though

[henrys_cat]

Stanley Mitchell:

tachograph:
In theory I agree with you 100%, but the reality of it is that there just aren’t enough directly employed jobs about and the reason is because so many companies are finding it favourable to use agency drivers.

To be honest I can’t figure out the financial benefit to companies, whilst they certainly gain by using agency drivers for seasonal work many companies are using agencies for a high proportion of the ongoing work … you figure it out I can’t

It ain`t rocket science, using an agency for a fair slice of your work force is, to put it mildly, letting somebody else deal with the hassle, to employ someone today is an expensive undertaking, with all the rules/regulations ect., it “may” cost more on paper, but, have you looked at what it costs to employ someone

An agency invoice is a tax deductable expense, to employ someone is a direct cost to the business, and, in the words of a major customer of mine, NOT tax efficient, and, if an agency driver does something stupid, you just tell the agency not to send him/her in again, if its one of your own men/women, you have to start the whole cycle of discipline action, a nightmare in anybody`s book.

One of my customer`s actually took on 20 drivers in september, they have “lost” two already, with another two are on “last orders”, these are lads who were great as agency, but, soon as their feet were under the table, they turned into right clowns, bolshy annoying workshy idiots, they are now having a re-think on employing drivers direct

And, with the economy as it is, if your quiet, you lay off the agency lads PDQ, saving bundles

TBF, I do not understand why companies let agency drivers rack up the hours, and, let their own men go home after 8/10 hours, quoting WTD as the reason, surely, it would be cheaper to work your own harder, and, let the agency take up the slack, I`m not complaining though

Then if you add in the cost of covering and employed driver when they take there holidays, probably in the region of £2000, when if they are on an agency its upto the agency to replace them.

I do most of my work through an agency, and have finally found a good one that allows me the flexibility to do my other stuff, but finds me work when i need it. Alot of that though is down to the drivers attitude, I have done the crap jobs, the different shifts ect, and just got on with it. That is then repaid with this agency. Give them ■■■■, you get it back, work with them and they work with you. To be fair I have found this is the case with alot of the agencies I have worked with

[cheekymonkey]

Good post steve.
It takes time and effort to build up a rapport with the office. A big number of lorry drivers just dont know how to speak to people and how to conduct themselves. Obviously all on here are ok though…
Its quite simple, go to a well known or recomended agency, stick with them and try and be flexible at least for a while till your feet are under the table.
Also just because its baffling some regarding the economics of it doesnt mean its wrong. The transport industry has long history of doing what is cheapest or most expediant.

[chicane]

I reckon there’s just crap agencies and a few drivers with a crap attitude. So far my agent has been great, even had to call him early hours about a problem with the unit cos I couldn’t get hold of the friggin company and he always backs his drivers up. In return I’m prepared to go in at the last minute (company ■■■■-ups) and do the odd crappy job when I’m available.

[jennie]

chicane:
I reckon there’s just crap agencies and a few drivers with a crap attitude. So far my agent has been great, even had to call him early hours about a problem with the unit cos I couldn’t get hold of the friggin company and he always backs his drivers up. In return I’m prepared to go in at the last minute (company [zb]) and do the odd crappy job when I’m available.

+1
Also I go in regularly for one company that do trunking run 3 days a week mabe they can’t just employ someone for just these 3 days so agency fits the bill for them as its sun tues and thurs if u employ someone weekly he’s sitting around for the other days twiddling his thumbs .
Jx

[red_squirrel]

I’ve noticed a lot of firms like to use several agencies rather than just farming all the work out to one.
Whether this is just to play one against the other or there are other reasons for it I don’t know.

[stanley_mitchell]

Red Squirrel:
I’ve noticed a lot of firms like to use several agencies rather than just farming all the work out to one.
Whether this is just to play one against the other or there are other reasons for it I don’t know.

Its gone the opposite way on some of my jobs, one agency [lead vendor] controls the job, the customer works on the basis, that it receives one invoice per week, and, not loads, as before, this is cheaper for them to process [allegedly]…

I know for a fact, that a lot of flexibility has gone out the window now, as, most of the big agencies are manned by children, who have little or no idea what the job entails

[jessicas_dad]

Stanley Mitchell:
I know for a fact, that a lot of flexibility has gone out the window now, as, most of the big agencies are manned by children, who have little or no idea what the job entails

too many agencies have jumped on the driving bandwagon fuelled by propanganda from articles like that bird’s from the sun

you only have to look at the job centre webshite to see the amount of agencies who dont know their elbows from their arse’s, same jobs offered by the same person’s name with inaccurate descriptions.
you see thats another problem is the few agencies that are out there that specialise are being squeezed out due to ones like adept who specialise in office staff now trying to break into driving with no idea about what they are on about.

im self employed not one of these crap umbrella companies and have just finished for a fella ( who incidently is trying to rip me off for £20 ) who kept on about my rates being to high considering the work i was doing was quite specailist, now i also looked into this and as been pointed out above, my invoice is a tax detucable expense so he can claim that back, whereas his own employees are a business expense. the lorry was a rental another taxable expense the trailer was on hire another taxable expense so the only out goings were diesal.

[hotel_magnum]

i did a little bit with an agency 2o years ago. but if they are bad now can we not name and shame them or is that not allowed, just as we should with driver training companies that do not deliver, we cannot help ourselves if we dont help each other.

[del949]

my invoice is a tax detucable expense so he can claim that back, whereas his own employees are a business expense. the lorry was a rental another taxable expense the trailer was on hire another taxable expense so the only out goings were diesal

you make it sound as if he can claim all the monies paid out back, whereas in reality he can only offset them against his tax.
He still has to pay for you, the truck, trailer and diesel .
Generally speaking these same claims would apply even if he owned the truck, trailer and empoyed you, albeit formulated in a different way.

[gogan]

It doesn’t matter whether you employ someone directly, or through an agency, the cost of that person is an entirely allowable expense for tax purposes.

Pretty much the only expenditure that is not “tax deductible” as you put it is capital expenditure (for which writing down allowances are provided instead) and entertainment!

Sorry guys, but you’re all talking a lot of nonsense here in respect of the supposed tax advantages of employing agency workers…

[truckulent]

Agencies are there to make money out of you - fair enough. But they lie and lie, tell you black is white and then swear blind they didn’t…

I wouldn’t trust any agency any further than I could throw an artic…

That said, I only work direct these days, so don’t have to put up with the ■■■■■■■■■■■

If you do find a good 'un - well done 'cos most are ■■■■■■■■■■■

[zeddman]

del949:
I could understand companies using agencies for long term jobs if it was difficult to sack people in the UK. but it isn’t, it’s easier to get rid of surplus staff in the UK than it is in france and germany and they don’t seem to have the same issues with agencies.
I can’t see how the economics of it add up, even taking into account holiday pay , insurance etc etc.
I bet for every one person who works for an agency because they enjoy the “freedom” , there are 100 that do it because they have no choice.

Thats me …first time in 20 years (apart from to get the experiance,when starting out)of having to use agencies…mind you the problem in north east england is ,pubs and transport must be in a race to shut up shop,judgeing by all the closures and collapes

[sidevalve]

Stanley Mitchell:
I know for a fact, that a lot of flexibility has gone out the window now, as, most of the big agencies are manned by children, who have little or no idea what the job entails

'Twas ever thus, Stanley. Bottom line is it’s a sales and marketing job, and as such you spend a lot of time doing just that; you’re judged (and paid) on results and as such it tends to be high pressure, hence older people find easier and less stressful ways of making a living. Or they become managers and become more detached from the day-to-day desk operation; no different to transport companies really. Partly because the desk staff are young, turn-over tends to be relatively high, as they move on to other jobs, so it’s no wonder drivers see this and lose confidence in the agency.

It’s also a fact that commercial agencies spread into driving and industrial work, and have done for years; I spent some time with Reed in Nottingham in the mid-90’s when they did just that. Waste of time for them because they were just too up-market to compete effectively, but I did get my REC training with them which stood me in good stead later on. The two types of agency are a bit like oil and water, they don’t mix; I still treasure the memory of the expression on the face of a particularly posh secretarial type when a rather scruffy warehousing candidate plonked himself down next to her in the waiting room and started to excavate his nose with evident enjoyment!