n that picture of course you can use lane 3. you can use lane 3 in any four lane carriageway.
wether or not you can use the outer lane (in this case lane 4) is the bit that is open to argument.
I can’t see the point of them putting up such a sign unless it was to allow previousley baned vehicles using the lane
del949:
…I can’t see the point of them putting up such a sign unless it was to allow previousley baned vehicles using the lane
Exactly.
In all cases where lane discipline is involved, the standard rules are effectively prefaced “Unless signs or road markings indicate otherwise…” Were that not the case there are endless junctions where they’ve wasted signs and or paint.
There’s always the chance such a sign has been placed in error, but the guilty party in that case is the person placing the sign, not a driver who follows what it says.
THE MOTORWAYS TRAFFIC (ENGLAND AND WALES) 1982*** is the important legislation here and it’s very clear on the subject with no mention of “if signs indicate otherwise”
Couldn’t be more clear, I really fail to understand why people are having so much difficulty understanding such a simple thing, especially when it’s already been confirmed by the PNLD that you can’t use the outer lane when there are three or more lanes.
***There is a 2004 amendment which brings the rule into play for vehicles between 3.5t and 7.5t which are fitted with a speed limiter.
Coffee, if you cannot understand why some people have difficulty in understanding this, perhaps you can explain what the signage really means .
As I understand it the sign means that previousley banned vehicles can use the lanes, otherwise why put them up.
Perhaps the signage is incorrect, as all the other vehicles banned from the outside lane would presumably still be banned as seems the case for HGV’s, thus the signs would then only apply to vehicles that can normally use the outside lane, meaning there would be no point in putting up such signs’
Also, if the rules are so clear as you post in the two rules, how come HGV’s can use the outside lane Leeds end of M1.
Surely the same rules apply there?
The signage is usually where there is a split in direction, where lanes might be switching carraigeway or there is an exit coming up and give information regarding which vehicles can use which lane depending on the route they intend to take.
In the case of a roadwork lane switching carraigeway it might say any vehicle so regardless of whether someone is coming off at the next exit they could use it as the next exit will be available. Likewise it might give the information “M1 Only” when the next exit is not available while under the other lanes it might say “M1 and J29”.
In the sign in the picture a few posts above, that’s simply saying those lanes are available for any intended direction, i.e. any vehicle whether going straight on or planning to exit. All the normal rules still apply because with or without those information signs there, and although you might be going straight on, you cannot use the outside lane if the vehicle you are in us prohibited.
Remember black on yellow signs are just information, they aren’t legal signs that have to be obeyed; which is why when there is a width or weight restriction for instance they have to put the normal restriction signs on there and not just put “Max 7.5t” or “Max 6’6"” in black on the yellow. They wouldn’t be legally enforceable. Those signs in the picture above are direction signs, they show the lanes changing direction, they show an exit coming up and they advise that regardless of direction you can use any lane. That’s all they are.
I don’t know the M 1 at Leeds end, haven’t been up there for years but it could be like the bottom of the M6 or the M6 southbound at the M5 junction where once the painted line between lanes 1 and 2 changes then lane 1 is no longer part of the M6 and it is a two lane motorway at that point so you can go in the outside lane, what was lane 3.
If those signs have no legal standing for permitting the unusual… they’d have also to have none when they say “Use hard shoulder”… which I’ve seen on any number of occasions, I don’t see anyone arguing they have no meaning then.
Would you ride a 50cc scooter on it
Out of personal preference = No .
Legally 
Yes you can , reg`s say - Not below 50cc or/and , not a holder of a provisional licence for that category of vehicle type 
crack on youfff 
ride free and fill yer boots 
After 5 pages and 146 posts,I think its safe to say that no one knows for sure what the answer is. And even the ones who ARE right (well,one side of the argument must be) they’ll never get others with a different view point to agree or accept it.
So in short,those who think they can use lane 3 will do so. Those that think they cant,wont.
If youve the balls for it,use lane 3 if you want. If you havnt,stick to lanes 1 and 2.
This thread could go on and on without ever reaching a conclusion
BeardedBlunder:
If those signs have no legal standing for permitting the unusual… they’d have also to have none when they say “Use hard shoulder”… which I’ve seen on any number of occasions, I don’t see anyone arguing they have no meaning then.
It’s not legal sign ordering you to use the hard shoulder, it’s an information sign informing drivers the hard shoulder is being used as a running lane. The HS becomes the new lane 1 in that case, so no problem for a truck to use it, and it’s not the information sign enforcing its use but the most basic rule of the road we have in this country - Keep Left.
When the three or four lanes shift over for roadworks and there is an information sign informing drivers of that fact the outside lane is still the outside lane with its usual restrictions.
The-Snowman:
After 5 pages and 146 posts,I think its safe to say that no one knows for sure what the answer is. And even the ones who ARE right (well,one side of the argument must be) they’ll never get others with a different view point to agree or accept it.
One side of the argument have not been able to post or link to anything that says it can be used while for the other side their is clear regulations forbidding the use of the outside lane on a three or more lane motorway.
The ‘evidence’ which was posted in an effort to back up the okay yo use it side was actually a shooting yourself in the foot moment as it did the opposite to supporting their case.
or alternatively , follow the white lines
trux:
Would you ride a 50cc scooter on it
Out of personal preference = No .
Legally
crack on youfff
I stand corrected
Principal is still the same if you say a 49cc motorcycle. It’s a banned vehicle but the sign says ANY vehicle. Does that mean previously banned vehicles are now allowed.
del949:
Also, if the rules are so clear as you post in the two rules, how come HGV’s can use the outside lane Leeds end of M1.
To be pedantic, it’s not the M1 but the M621.
The first sign says HGV may use any lane
The second says HGV using any lane ENDS (their capitals not mine)
Three key points here
- It specifies what type of vehicle
- There is an end sign
- A few hundred yards up the road you could use any lane anyway due to the road layout; lane 1 for J4; lane 2 for J3/M621 and lane 3 for continuing on the M621
Google “know your road signs” download the pdf, look at page 130. The arrows mean no lane restrictions, ie width or weight limits etc. It doesn’t mean you can use the outside lane. That pdf is the governments most comprehensive guide to road traffic signs. That exact sign is not on it, ie the any vehicle bit. And seeing as there’s only one in those roadworks I’d say some civil servant jobsworth managed to order the wrong sign, hence the confusion, albeit for only a short distance, which seems to have slipped the net