Carryfast:
But if you’re right about rail freight having no axe to grind why would they be making unproven unfounded allegations in regard to road transport operations and why would they wish to protest concerning larger capacity trucks and the reduction/removal of road fuel taxation .It’s the rail industry that’s obviously using the scare tactics and an environmental bs argument to remove the choice of using road transport and to take work from road transport,on the basis of unfair competition.
There is some more misleading and scary information here, but at first glance what does this illustration suggest?
If I read it right the conclusion is that we’ve got loads of dangerous trucks running around crashing everywhere but they’re all hauling sfa anyway but they also seem to be hauling enough for the rail freight zb’s to think that they’re ‘undermining’ the rail freight industry.
Unless,of course,road transport is happy doing all the zb local intermodal work so those overpaid unionised zb’s can keep earning a fortune doing all the long distance work in which case it all changes from ‘undermining’ to ‘complimenting’ each other .
But the illustration seems to suggest to me that the big business zb’s are happy enough to forget all about the zb low carbon bs when it comes to not wanting to tread on the toes of their big business mates in the air freight industry considering the payload tonne/mile per gallon efficiency of an aircraft compared to a truck,especially if we could raise the gross weight limits for trucks to 60 tonnes +.
However assuming that they would supposedly all be running around empty what is it that the rail freight lot are so worried about in the context of ‘undermining’ the rail freight industry .Zb bunch of zb zb’s.
Carryfast:
But if you’re right about rail freight having no axe to grind why would they be making unproven unfounded allegations in regard to road transport operations and why would they wish to protest concerning larger capacity trucks and the reduction/removal of road fuel taxation .It’s the rail industry that’s obviously using the scare tactics and an environmental bs argument to remove the choice of using road transport and to take work from road transport,on the basis of unfair competition.
There is some more misleading and scary information here, but at first glance what does this illustration suggest?
The 737 max weight should be taken with a pinch of salt as it doesn’t mean anything in the real world as most air freight cubes out before reaching the max weight. At a rough guess you’d get about 4x 40ft trailers worth of cube inside a 737-300 as they’re not that long.
Carryfast:
But if you’re right about rail freight having no axe to grind why would they be making unproven unfounded allegations in regard to road transport operations and why would they wish to protest concerning larger capacity trucks and the reduction/removal of road fuel taxation .It’s the rail industry that’s obviously using the scare tactics and an environmental bs argument to remove the choice of using road transport and to take work from road transport,on the basis of unfair competition.
There is some more misleading and scary information here, but at first glance what does this illustration suggest?
The 737 max weight should be taken with a pinch of salt as it doesn’t mean anything in the real world as most air freight cubes out before reaching the max weight. At a rough guess you’d get about 4x 40ft trailers worth of cube inside a 737-300 as they’re not that long.
Carryfast:
But if you’re right about rail freight having no axe to grind why would they be making unproven unfounded allegations in regard to road transport operations and why would they wish to protest concerning larger capacity trucks and the reduction/removal of road fuel taxation .It’s the rail industry that’s obviously using the scare tactics and an environmental bs argument to remove the choice of using road transport and to take work from road transport,on the basis of unfair competition.
There is some more misleading and scary information here, but at first glance what does this illustration suggest?
The 737 max weight should be taken with a pinch of salt as it doesn’t mean anything in the real world as most air freight cubes out before reaching the max weight. At a rough guess you’d get about 4x 40ft trailers worth of cube inside a 737-300 as they’re not that long.
Great picture Rob, it has been utilised as my new desktop background.
My original point was that the Rail Hate site seemed to suggest the new trucks could carry 60t while a 737 could only carry 58.
But the so called ‘green’ rail lot don’t seem so keen to publicise that the 60t + gross truck could carry a 40t + max load at a lot less fuel consumption than the 737 needs to haul an 18-20t max load or that a 60tonner would also be more fuel efficient,in that context,than the present 40/44 tonners.
They also seem to be able to overlook the total fuel requirements of intermodal movements versus door to door road transport.
The double standards continue with the fact,that an intermodal operation will also require existing large trucks to run through small local road systems not best suited to them,using 40/45 ft containers.They seem to often use the big truck running through small local roads scenario to justify the totally different issue of removing large trucks from the long distance roads that they’re best suited to in order for rail freight to get the part of the job that they want.
By the way was’nt the existing 44 tonne max limit only originally introduced for intermodal operations,at the request of rail freight operators,and did’nt that same rail lot then moan and whinge when that limit was later extended to general uk road transport movements .
we all like to have apoint to make some miss and others are rite on, im sorry if it offends but it wont change for as long as ive an hole in my a**e because we moan and groan but when it comes to the crunch we dont stick together. the banks caused the credit crunch they shuould pay back every penny they were bailed out with, back before they get there bonuses not us but they wont. trucks in the uk should be on the freight tax system, you pay by the day and this should be all trucks uk and european, and limit there diesel to make them buy it here and intrduce a minimum rates for work anyone found choppin the rate you loose your o/licence, the money recouped from the europeans will bring our price per litre down and we all sing of the same hymm sheet, fair for all this will also stop the poles and others commin here with the big tanks brimmed with cheap diesel, commin here and runnin round under cuttin us for our workfor 2-3 weeks before going home, do to europe what theyve been doing to us for years,we stick to this and we will see changes very quickly trust me we’ve only just started fineing them on the spot and they dont like it
karl2878:
we all like to have apoint to make some miss and others are rite on, im sorry if it offends but it wont change for as long as ive an hole in my a**e because we moan and groan but when it comes to the crunch we dont stick together. the banks caused the credit crunch they shuould pay back every penny they were bailed out with, back before they get there bonuses not us but they wont. trucks in the uk should be on the freight tax system, you pay by the day and this should be all trucks uk and european, and limit there diesel to make them buy it here and intrduce a minimum rates for work anyone found choppin the rate you loose your o/licence, the money recouped from the europeans will bring our price per litre down and we all sing of the same hymm sheet, fair for all this will also stop the poles and others commin here with the big tanks brimmed with cheap diesel, commin here and runnin round under cuttin us for our workfor 2-3 weeks before going home, do to europe what theyve been doing to us for years,we stick to this and we will see changes very quickly trust me we’ve only just started fineing them on the spot and they dont like it
If we were all singing from the so called same hymn sheet we’d all be paying for diesel at the same tax rate regardless of mode or EU state.But your idea seems like the worst of all worlds in which rail and air freight would benefit even more than it does now and if you’re going to set fixed pricing then that will have to apply to every sector of the economy not just road transport and it would no longer be a free market economy but communism does’nt work.
look mate trains are going to take 25 years to get the tracks upto date, and planes carnt land at your local ind est can they oh no plus they are too expensive
1000 euro reg trucks min enter dover in a12 hour period thats 1 port that dont pay a penny to use are roads and dont buy our diesel undercut us for uk and european work.this is why we carnt compete and also why transport firms are going to the wall at a rapid rate road tax keeps rising andso will diesel untill no ones left even mr stobart wont be able to compete hes already on the verge of braking even give your head a wobble and bang the door on the way out its people like you mate who are in power scared to see the the real facts and no balls to do somthing about it
karl2878:
look mate trains are going to take 25 years to get the tracks upto date, and planes carnt land at your local ind est can they oh no plus they are too expensive
1000 euro reg trucks min enter dover in a12 hour period thats 1 port that dont pay a penny to use are roads and dont buy our diesel undercut us for uk and european work.this is why we carnt compete and also why transport firms are going to the wall at a rapid rate road tax keeps rising andso will diesel untill no ones left even mr stobart wont be able to compete hes already on the verge of braking even give your head a wobble and bang the door on the way out its people like you mate who are in power scared to see the the real facts and no balls to do somthing about it
The real facts are that the Brits have been stupid enough to let our own government zb up our own road transport industry by taxing road transport at a higher rate on fuel than other modes.You can’t blame foreign hauliers for taking advantage of that situation.
We also allowed our own government to get away with supporting the entry of ex communist cheap labour economies into the EU which was originally meant to be just a free trading block of developed west european economies.
So now,when all of those issues are having the obvious effect on our own economy,instead of trying to get our own government to see sense by at least giving British road transport a fair deal in the context of taxation in comparison to other modes like rail freight,your answer is to make matters even worse,for any of the international Brit hauliers left,who are still trying to take some of those same fuel taxation advantages of filling up in places like Luxembourg,and/or uk ones by applying even more tax,in the form of road taxation,because for the billionth time on here there’s no way of charging foreign trucks to use uk roads without ‘also’ charging our own trucks exactly the same.
But as for the rail industry needing 25 years to take advantage of that idea of stopping trucks coming into Dover with full running tanks (which,luckily, you could’nt anyway under EU law) there’s plenty of intermodal freight trains running through the Channel Tunnel all the time between europe and uk now and your idea,at best,would just result in foreign hauliers dropping their trailers at Calais and sending them over unaccompanied,or at worst the rail freight lot would pick up the work and our road transport would then just be left with paying even more in road charging and continue paying high fuel charges to run a few miles up the road and back with unaccompanied trailers or local intermodal containers,while what remains of our international fleet doing long distance uk-international work would lose any advantage,which it did have,in being able to fill up in cheaper,less taxed eu states and would get hit hit with even higher costs for use of uk roads.
I’m sure that the foreign hauliers and rail freight firms would be only too pleased if the Brit government did accept your bonkers plan and would say bring it on.
karl2878:
we all like to have apoint to make some miss and others are rite on, im sorry if it offends but it wont change for as long as ive an hole in my a**e because we moan and groan but when it comes to the crunch we dont stick together. the banks caused the credit crunch they shuould pay back every penny they were bailed out with, back before they get there bonuses not us but they wont. trucks in the uk should be on the freight tax system, you pay by the day and this should be all trucks uk and european, and limit there diesel to make them buy it here and intrduce a minimum rates for work anyone found choppin the rate you loose your o/licence, the money recouped from the europeans will bring our price per litre down and we all sing of the same hymm sheet, fair for all this will also stop the poles and others commin here with the big tanks brimmed with cheap diesel, commin here and runnin round under cuttin us for our workfor 2-3 weeks before going home, do to europe what theyve been doing to us for years,we stick to this and we will see changes very quickly trust me we’ve only just started fineing them on the spot and they dont like it
I agree with your first sentence, but you mention Stobart just about breaking even. What is your source of this information. I have seen financial reports for the Stobart Group which suggests otherwise, even taking into account the December snowfalls and the costs involved to them.
carryfast what is wrong with us paying for our trucks to use our roads per day !!! what is wrong with the europeans paying to use our roads!!! english truucks carnt go into france with more than 1250 lts of fuel in standerd tanks any more tthey drain it off and fine 1750 euros and you dont move till its paid yet they can come here with 2000 lts topped up in verne and nothing happens!!! we carnt go to any country in europe without paying fact!!! we dont pay the freigt tax we get fined 1000 euro per day you carnt get thru france on the nationals anymore because weight limits so they are making you pay the tolls !!!
it isnt comunist for us to say enough is enough we’ve bin screwed to much for too long im sorry to offend but your comments on air and rail dont cut it and they wont stop companies going to the wall and being on an even par with europe and why this problem will never be resolved there are many people who i talk to agree with my ideas and are fed up and its people like you who say yes fuel is too expensive but when it comes to it your not prepared to do anything about it and say it comunist to charge people who come here for free and take our work pull the other one its got bells on
this is peoples livelyhoods and peoples jobs its not about being p/c or eu law its here and its happening
as for stobart if eddie couldnt make it work what makes you think his younger brother can my info comes from someone in accounts and just because david irlam is a director dosent mean mike stuart or andrew irlam wont get things going again and most of stobarts big contracts were irlams dealt with buy mike stuart or andrew
karl2878:
carryfast what is wrong with us paying for our trucks to use our roads per day !!! what is wrong with the europeans paying to use our roads!!! english truucks carnt go into france with more than 1250 lts of fuel in standerd tanks any more tthey drain it off and fine 1750 euros and you dont move till its paid yet they can come here with 2000 lts topped up in verne and nothing happens!!! we carnt go to any country in europe without paying fact!!! we dont pay the freigt tax we get fined 1000 euro per day you carnt get thru france on the nationals anymore because weight limits so they are making you pay the tolls !!!
Do you really think that the Brit government won’t use road charging to increase the level of taxation on British road transport not decrease it.Check out it’s previous track record and everything says that it’s a trojan horse to just raise road transport taxation to even higher levels than is paid now.
Where do the French check fuel levels and drain tanks on entry considering that it’s borders with other EU states,except ours,are not controlled in any way and these days just means nothing more than a sign at the side of the road denoting the border crossing.So fill up in Luxembourg and there’s no way that they’ll drain or check the tank on entry to France and no one would be daft enough to fill up here to go into Europe.
But the calls for road charging here issue is no different to when the Swiss called for exactly the same to be applied there because of the charges imposed on Swiss vehicles every time they went into France or Italy.All it did was to cost themselves more than they were paying before in other words they shot themselves in the foot.In general governments never reduce taxation only raise it and you seem to have fallen into the mistaken idea that charging foreign vehicles more to run here will in some way mean that we get charged less.
ive been around transport all my life an o/d for 15 years, and last year had to pack it in because it was costing me in the long run to do the job i love, but the sqeeze on uk o/ds and companys is at breaking point people say they want things to change and when it comes to it they bottle it
i would be glad to see the day we park up and stay parked up till we get what we want and what we deserve ,it may happen but it will be people like you carryfast to say what you doin that for you carnt do that, but the day will come and they will put two fingers up at you and say well its to late for b,s its time we got what we want
karl2878:
ive been around transport all my life an o/d for 15 years, and last year had to pack it in because it was costing me in the long run to do the job i love, but the sqeeze on uk o/ds and companys is at breaking point people say they want things to change and when it comes to it they bottle it
i would be glad to see the day we park up and stay parked up till we get what we want and what we deserve ,it may happen but it will be people like you carryfast to say what you doin that for you carnt do that, but the day will come and they will put two fingers up at you and say well its to late for b,s its time we got what we want
There’s nothing wrong with trying to get what we want but we’re not going to get it unless we counter the political issues which are the root cause of the problem which is basically that the British government is trying to tax long distance road transport off the road to put freight onto the railways instead.
In that context all that remains of the British road transport industry would be local intermodal operations and distribution and if you think that would be a better way of running an owner driver operation then go ahead but don’t expect everyone in the long distance international sector to agree with it as we’re seeing by the foreign trucks running through Dover.
There’s no way of countering the issues by just using the simplistic (but wrong) idea of trying to impose even higher costs on both ours and foreign international long distance running trucks.
karl2878:
as for stobart if eddie couldnt make it work what makes you think his younger brother can my info comes from someone in accounts and just because david irlam is a director dosent mean mike stuart or andrew irlam wont get things going again and most of stobarts big contracts were irlams dealt with buy mike stuart or andrew
I believe that the Stobart Group is a completely different business from the one that Edward Stobart ran and William (Stobart) & Andrew Tinkler along with the management team are steering it in the right direction.
Ken Irlam had grown his business over 50 years and it had probably reached it’s peak, in fact in 2006 they were looking for acquisitions in the south of England to grow it further. Ken died in January 2008 and 2 months later Stobart Group had paid £60m for it. You don’t think that was simply a knee jerk reaction to their fathers death do you?
I am sure your friend in the Stobart Groups accounts office will learn that careless talk costs lives, and I don’t believe you that they are just breaking even!
Again agreeing with carryfast, how the hell would you know the limit you can take into france and that they drain it out at the border. I worked for a rather large French company with over 3000 units and we were not allowed to use the peage, so we used national roads 90% of the time. The weight limits are easy to avoid with a good map
i fueled up at romac fules at verne i had 2000 ltr fuel capacity 1000 ltrs a side i was stopped for rutine check at dunkerke and the gendames told me my tanks were not standard and over the limit ther for id have to pay the fine plus the duty or they drain it i told them to f**k off and paid the fine and told them to drain it when i got home i got the standard factory issues fitted
and as for ken irlam r,i,p was still alive irlams would still be family owned and it wasnt 60m stobart paid either my freind all the land at chelford belongs to the family even the woods at the back bet if you asked the other brothers if they wanted it to be sold i bet the answer would be no david wore the pants in that company and to be honest made it what it was with the help of the others who all drove for the company to start off with
karl2878:
i fueled up at romac fules at verne i had 2000 ltr fuel capacity 1000 ltrs a side i was stopped for rutine check at dunkerke and the gendames told me my tanks were not standard and over the limit
The issue of tanks deemed as not being standard fitment applies just the same here and if the Brit authorities decide that a truck has non standard/auxiliary tanks filled with fuel bought outside the uk they’ll probably take the same action .
Maybe if you could provide the French authorities,with proof provided by the trucks manufacturer,that the tanks were original fitment,you could apply for any penalties to be re paid .
the thing is they dont and wether or not i was reated harshly or not isnt the point im not the first and i wont be the last and the harsh treatment has bin going on for many years
this thread is about the fuel escalator and trying to get on apar with europe with our trucks earning good money and our drivers off the dole and behind the wheel doin what they do best
not trains like i said on tracks that will take 25 years to upgrade or about planes wich are to expensive and have nowere to land
this will also stop the poles and others commin here with the big tanks brimmed with cheap diesel, commin here and runnin round under cuttin us for our workfor 2-3 weeks before going home,
english truucks carnt go into france with more than 1250 lts of fuel in standerd tanks any more tthey drain it off and fine 1750 euros and you dont move till its paid yet they can come here with 2000 lts topped up in verne and nothing happens!!!
i fueled up at romac fules at verne i had 2000 ltr fuel capacity 1000 ltrs a side i was stopped for rutine check at dunkerke and the gendames told me my tanks were not standard and over the limit ther for id have to pay the fine plus the duty or they drain it i told them to f**k off and paid the fine and told them to drain it when i got home i got the standard factory issues fitted
I am amused that you think that a Polish driver can work for 2 to 3 weeks without fueling up, as an owner driver of 15 years experience I would be on the first plane to Poland to buy such an economical truck.
The tanks must be standard manufacturer fitment, in any of the EU countries and even in the other parts of Europe
the poles dont work the same as us on round trip basis as there are that many fighting for the work 9 timesout of ten they dont have back loads there tanks are brimmed on entry to the uk then the lucky ones get back loads to poland or germany the others undercut the uk hauliers do acouple of uk jobs then they will sit at the elf in calais standard tanks =12-1400 liters they can do a 1000 kms and be back in calais on half tanks just under no problem
and to be honest im prepared to do what it takes so the brit hauliers get what they deserve i dont have to justify myself to you or enyone else i dont talk s**t i comment and talk what i no are facts i herd this was a good site but must just be a site for the b/s brigade talk the talk but more chance of plattin fog of them walking the walk
karl2878:
the poles dont work the same as us on round trip basis as there are that many fighting for the work 9 timesout of ten they dont have back loads there tanks are brimmed on entry to the uk then the lucky ones get back loads to poland or germany the others undercut the uk hauliers do acouple of uk jobs then they will sit at the elf in calais standard tanks =12-1400 liters they can do a 1000 kms and be back in calais on half tanks just under no problem
and to be honest im prepared to do what it takes so the brit hauliers get what they deserve i dont have to justify myself to you or enyone else i dont talk s**t i comment and talk what i no are facts i herd this was a good site but must just be a site for the b/s brigade talk the talk but more chance of plattin fog of them walking the walk
This is a good site for discussions, when you say drivers don’t stick together, what do you want them to do? Wear hiviz and colour co-ordinated jacket and trousers?
We carried a legal 1400 litres and could run up to Dundee, load down out of Inverurie and back to Le Havre or Calais without fuelling up either.
Before getting drivers to stick together,(we are by nature loners and renegades) you need to get the freight forwarding companies to stick together and refuse to load the Poles and Romanians! Of course this will never happen because if they can get 26 pallets of arsewipe moved to Germany for 200 quid and charge the manufacturer £1000. It means more golfing and skiing holidays for the bosses.
You complained that this thread was about the fuel escalator but then introduced some old pony about knowing the inside story on Stobarts profit & loss account and also the strained relationship between the Irlam Brothers.
Apart from that we are similar, you mentioned being an owner driver and giving it up. I did the same, only i saw the writing on the wall much earlier, long before the latest Eastern Bloc gate was opened. That is just an excuse used by hauliers running for peanuts. There are too many trucks on the road chasing too little profitable work, containers have killed general haulage and the shippers have found cheaper transport, much like the Dutch and German shippers did many years ago by using British hauliers.
I also agreed that it would take 25 years to build a realistic freight infrastructure on the railways.
.It’s the rail industry that’s obviously using the scare tactics and an environmental bs argument to remove the choice of using road transport and to take work from road transport,on the basis of unfair competition.
