The government must abandon the fuel duty escalator now

[carryfast]

Wheel Nut:

mattcollin:
I’m aware of that but the original post was supposed to be about what this forum is going to do about it.What moves are they going to do to get some response

Peter Carroll has already started the petition thing. I signed it over a week ago. Quentin Willson has been on TV for a week.

fairfueluk.com/

twitter.com/#!/search?q=%23FairFuelUK

Sign it and don’t let Carryfarts randomness derail another thread, remember it was him who brought rail into this, as always.

If his Auntie had ■■■■■■■■, She would have been his uncle

Quentin Wilson also writes a weekly article in the Mirror.On his page there’s him saying one thing about reducing road fuel taxation and on the other pages it’s just the usual commie environmentalist bs about getting freight and cars off the road in favour of rail transport and keeping road fuel taxation as high as possible which,of course,is better for big business rail freight transport operators than small hauliers and putting the nation’s tax burden onto road fuel keeps income taxes lower for high earners,which is why there’s cross party support for the status quo in regards to road fuel taxation and which is therefore why the issue of ‘what this forum is going to do about it’ is about as relevant as what all my dead aunties and uncles think about it.

Having said all that you did seem to think that it was relevant to throw in an argument about cutting road transport capacity as a way of cutting competition levels and therefore rate cutting pressures.However in the light of the proposed growth in rail freight transport capacity that seems as contradictory as Quentin Wilson’s calls for road fuel tax reductions in,of all places,the Mirror.

[wheel_nut]

Carryfast:
Having said all that you did seem to think that it was relevant to throw in an argument about cutting road transport capacity as a way of cutting competition levels and therefore rate cutting pressures.However in the light of the proposed growth in rail freight transport capacity that seems as contradictory as Quentin Wilson’s calls for road fuel tax reductions in,of all places,the Mirror.

Not exactly, but if you stop jumping from post to post, copying every item without reading it all, it may fall into place for you.

I was commenting on a post made by Dessy, which strangely enough also agreed with Mark and Rob K. Simple, there is too much capacity, and too many rate cutters to get a small sliver of that work. Operator Licences are too easy to get, the marketplace is too easy to gain entry and rates are plummeting because of it. It is not a new phenomenon, just now, it is close to bursting point.

As you mention me putting drivers on the dole, let me remind you that drivers are already on the dole, or working 2 or 3 days occasionally for agencies, some want to, some need a full time job which isn’t there.

[carryfast]

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:
Having said all that you did seem to think that it was relevant to throw in an argument about cutting road transport capacity as a way of cutting competition levels and therefore rate cutting pressures.However in the light of the proposed growth in rail freight transport capacity that seems as contradictory as Quentin Wilson’s calls for road fuel tax reductions in,of all places,the Mirror.

Not exactly, but if you stop jumping from post to post, copying every item without reading it all, it may fall into place for you.

I was commenting on a post made by Dessy, which strangely enough also agreed with Mark and Rob K. Simple, there is too much capacity, and too many rate cutters to get a small sliver of that work. Operator Licences are too easy to get, the marketplace is too easy to gain entry and rates are plummeting because of it. It is not a new phenomenon, just now, it is close to bursting point.

As you mention me putting drivers on the dole, let me remind you that drivers are already on the dole, or working 2 or 3 days occasionally for agencies, some want to, some need a full time job which isn’t there.

The job ‘is’nt there’ because other than running back and forwards to the supermarket RDC’s the rest of the British road transport industry is subject to the issues of a wrecked manufacturing sector so less demand,growth in cheaper east european road transport capacity and competition,and zb great big half mile or more long freight trains running on relatively tax free diesel.

[tommy_t]

I think that we already pay far too much for petrol and diesel in this rip off country, with out even further increases in fuel duty, as for the country being nearly bankrupt personally i couldn’t give a monkey’s as i did not run up the debt, that was not only the last government but also the one before it, as well as those (w)bankers who got bailed out and are now laughing at us with their bonuses ,then you got mr silver spoon who doesn’t know what real graft is Cameron, who is milking as much out of the pot as he can, as are all the top politicians not just in expenses but their salaries aren’t in proportion to a country thats skint,
thing is non of the main stream political parties give a toss about business or the people, they are only in it for personal gain, look at b liar he should be banged up for war crimes instead he is a millionaire, a nest that he feathered whilst hew was bush’s poodle

[wheel_nut]

tommy t:
then you got mr silver spoon who doesn’t know what real graft is Cameron, who is milking as much out of the pot as he can, as are all the top politicians not just in expenses but their salaries aren’t in proportion to a country thats skint,
thing is non of the main stream political parties give a toss about business or the people, they are only in it for personal gain, look at b liar he should be banged up for war crimes instead he is a millionaire, a nest that he feathered whilst hew was bush’s poodle

Non of the government have done any real graft, look up their early careers.

Gordon Brown, born in Scotland, went to school, university, edited a red school magazine and joined the labour party, his first job was lackey to a labour councilor.

Tony Blair, born in Scotland, buggered off to Australia, came back to Scotland, then went to Durham with his parents who lectured at the university.

Hardly working at a coal face is it?

Ed Milliband, born, school, university, journalism, labour party researcher.

WTF do any of these know about the real world. They are indoctrinated from University and College by marxist professors.

The bloke I would like to meet in a pub is Dennis Skinner, totally opposing views, but a proper working bloke, comedian and doesn’t suffer bull manure. I am going to listen to the Benn Tapes on Audio when they are available at the library.

I read the Telegraph and often look at page 3 as well as Reuters online so think I have more clue of the real world than anyone who has entered politics in the last 60 years

[brentanna]

Carryfast do you ever think ? That is not a retorical question either.

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
Carryfast do you ever think ? That is not a retorical question either.

Obviously with a lot more intelligence than our so called government.So let’s hear your answer to all the issues related to road transport operations using road fuel priced at almost £6 per gallon.

[brentanna]

you really want to look like an idiot again ?

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
you really want to look like an idiot again ?

It all depends on your definition of idiot but the government would like to think that it’s made up of experts so let’s hear your ideas as to how they can keep the road transport industry here running at current fuel prices because they can’t be any worse.

[newmercman]

Carryfast:
the government would like to think that it’s made up of experts so let’s hear your ideas as to how they can keep the road transport industry here running at current fuel prices because they can’t be any worse.

I’m like you carryfast, bit of a broken record but I maintain that we, the haulage industry, should pass on fuel costs to the customer. A rate should be set with fuel costs of, say 3 quid a gallon, incorporated then when prices rise above that a fuel surcharge should be added, a standard mpg figure of, for argument’s sake, 7mpg will make a hauliers costs the same no matter what fuel prices do.

Now I know your going to start your flapping again, but think about it, all of a sudden P&G, Coca-Cola, Nestle etc are going to be hit with bigger bills, the first thing they’ll be doing is moaning to their bum chums in the government, as if by magic fuel taxes will drop like a lead balloon and everyone’s a winner

Oh and Rob, yeah yeah yeah, I know

[carryfast]

newmercman:

Carryfast:
the government would like to think that it’s made up of experts so let’s hear your ideas as to how they can keep the road transport industry here running at current fuel prices because they can’t be any worse.

I’m like you carryfast, bit of a broken record but I maintain that we, the haulage industry, should pass on fuel costs to the customer. A rate should be set with fuel costs of, say 3 quid a gallon, incorporated then when prices rise above that a fuel surcharge should be added, a standard mpg figure of, for argument’s sake, 7mpg will make a hauliers costs the same no matter what fuel prices do.

Now I know your going to start your flapping again, but think about it, all of a sudden P&G, Coca-Cola, Nestle etc are going to be hit with bigger bills, the first thing they’ll be doing is moaning to their bum chums in the government, as if by magic fuel taxes will drop like a lead balloon and everyone’s a winner

But the problem with that idea is what’s plan b when you apply the fuel surcharge,because it’s already around £6 per gallon not £3 per gallon,when both the government and the customer says no way .

But it’s not the food and drink sector of the industry that’s most at risk it’s all the other haulage sectors.So it’s just more of the same the big supermarket distribution firms survive and everyone else goes broke.

However in general haulage it’ll be the one’s who think like me,that raising rates to match punitive fuel taxes,which have been purposely designed to get freight off the road and onto rail and to subsidise high earners by keeping income taxes low,is just going to make the firm go broke sooner rather than later because it’s low turnover and cash flow which will put a small firm out of business faster than low,or even zero in the case of an owner driver,profit margins.

I reckon that you’re basing your ideas on the luxury of being in a different more road transport friendly environment.Unfortunately the reality of the situation here is that much of the industry is in a fight for it’s survival caught between the impossiblity of raising rates on one side and government’s taxation policies on the other.But those drivers,so far,who’ve been put out of work by those issues are probably too disillusioned to bother with trying to confirm that it was those two issues that put them out of work.It was’nt because their guvnors had’nt already tried,and failed,to get the type of rate increases that would be needed to pay for the present rates of fuel taxation.

Having said all that ‘if’ the industry did ever manage to succeed in getting rates increases in line with fuel price increases then it follows that every other sector of the economy would need to adjust it’s price levels to match which includes wages to pay for the higher costs of goods in the shops.However you’ve already said what you think of greedy union zb’s in that context because it’s de ja vu for those of us who grew up in my generation.We’ve been here before starting in 1973 and 1980 was the result when the government refused to get rid of road fuel taxation and charged us all the same for our own oil as the zb Germans were paying for it and a lot more than they were paying for it in Luxembourg at the time.

[brentanna]

see mental dwarfism strikes again. Well if they says no way then I guess the stuff sits until they change their minds doesn’t it. Why carry something at a loss. Do you think the population would stand for empty shelves for very long. Trucking companies have a right to charge what they have to for their service, if the people using that service don’t like it they need to find someone who will move their product at a loss wont be long before the one’s willing to do that are gone and then they have to deal with the higher rates if transfer.

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
see mental dwarfism strikes again. Well if they says no way then I guess the stuff sits until they change their minds doesn’t it. Why carry something at a loss. Do you think the population would stand for empty shelves for very long. Trucking companies have a right to charge what they have to for their service, if the people using that service don’t like it they need to find someone who will move their product at a loss wont be long before the one’s willing to do that are gone and then they have to deal with the higher rates if transfer.

Not mental dwarfism it’s called realism based on growing up and working in the Britain of the 1970’s and after.Unless you experienced it you’d never know.But inflation always wins in the end in a price wage spiral.Not much point in getting double the money if it’s worth 3 times less and/or you’re out of a job.

[wheel_nut]

I like trains in the same way as I like motorcycles, cars and boats. I admire the engineering principles that went into the design and manufacturer of machine and the routes they run on. Bridges, Tunnels, Locks and Docks.

However from network rails own documents even they have done a study and have agreed a fully loaded freight train could remove between 43 & 77 Heavy Goods Vehicles off the road, dependant on the load carried. In the same document it mentions how dangerous trucks are

Lorries contribute to a disproportionate number of
fatal accidents per km travelled35. Reducing the
number of lorries on our roads would save a
significant number of lives.

5.2 Rail freight can help communities by making roads
safer. In Britain in 2008, heavy goods vehicles
accounted for only 5.6% of all vehicle km but were
involved in 9.4% of road fatalities69. This is a rate
of 1.3 fatal accidents per 100 million vehicle km,
compared to a rate of 0.7 fatal accidents per 100
million vehicle km for cars70. From 1999 to 2008
there were 117,000 accidents involving HGVs
which resulted in 4,972 fatalities, 20,826 serious
injuries and a total of 165,226 casualties71. This
highlights that by taking lorries off our roads, rail
freight prevents over 500 road casualties a year.
5.3 It is not just the intrinsic size and weight of HGVs
that puts other road users at increased risk, a
proportion of HGVs are not maintained to
appropriate standards. Spot checks undertaken in
2009 found that 46.5% of foreign vehicles and
37.5% of the UK vehicles stopped had dangerous
defects72.

If you want to read more of Lord Haw Haws report it is here in it’s entirety.

networkrail.co.uk/documents/ … reight.pdf

Railfreight will not replace the lorry, it is too inflexible, the commuters will not put with any more delays, the network is already at breaking point, the Victorian designs that I love are crumbling under the weight, and there is no room for expansion. In your beloved US of A they double deck freight containers on trains, many of our rail routes cannot cope with the modern industry standard 9’ 6’’ box.

So your scaremongering doesn’t scare me and it shouldn’t scare others, the railways were designed for carrying people, they were quite successful at that until Lord Beeching cut the capacity overnight.

[brentanna]

You mean like the 1970 recession oil embargo we had here in NA dont know we managed to get through it and with action on the part of trucking companies and independents came out of it well enough. Oh ya thats right GB didnt get the massive oil embargo. Or like the late 1990’s early part of 2000 when prices went sky high after the massive storms took out 70% of US production which by the way is in the south along the Lousianna, Texas coast. Nope dont know anything about how things should be done, BTDT

[carryfast]

Wheel Nut:
I like trains in the same way as I like motorcycles, cars and boats. I admire the engineering principles that went into the design and manufacturer of machine and the routes they run on. Bridges, Tunnels, Locks and Docks.

However from network rails own documents even they have done a study and have agreed a fully loaded freight train could remove between 43 & 77 Heavy Goods Vehicles off the road, dependant on the load carried. In the same document it mentions how dangerous trucks are

Lorries contribute to a disproportionate number of
fatal accidents per km travelled35. Reducing the
number of lorries on our roads would save a
significant number of lives.

5.2 Rail freight can help communities by making roads
safer. In Britain in 2008, heavy goods vehicles
accounted for only 5.6% of all vehicle km but were
involved in 9.4% of road fatalities69. This is a rate
of 1.3 fatal accidents per 100 million vehicle km,
compared to a rate of 0.7 fatal accidents per 100
million vehicle km for cars70. From 1999 to 2008
there were 117,000 accidents involving HGVs
which resulted in 4,972 fatalities, 20,826 serious
injuries and a total of 165,226 casualties71. This
highlights that by taking lorries off our roads, rail
freight prevents over 500 road casualties a year.
5.3 It is not just the intrinsic size and weight of HGVs
that puts other road users at increased risk, a
proportion of HGVs are not maintained to
appropriate standards. Spot checks undertaken in
2009 found that 46.5% of foreign vehicles and
37.5% of the UK vehicles stopped had dangerous
defects72.

If you want to read more of Lord Haw Haws report it is here in it’s entirety.

networkrail.co.uk/documents/ … reight.pdf

Railfreight will not replace the lorry, it is too inflexible, the commuters will not put with any more delays, the network is already at breaking point, the Victorian designs that I love are crumbling under the weight, and there is no room for expansion. In your beloved US of A they double deck freight containers on trains, many of our rail routes cannot cope with the modern industry standard 9’ 6’’ box.

So your scaremongering doesn’t scare me and it shouldn’t scare others, the railways were designed for carrying people, they were quite successful at that until Lord Beeching cut the capacity overnight.

Like I said Turkeys voting for christmas.The rail industry views road transport as the enemy and it’s time road transport woke up and fought it’s corner before the rail freight zb’s have the industry for (christmas) dinner.

But you’re right the yanks have increased their rail freight industry.Which is one of the reasons why,like here,the American road transport industry has contracted not grown although even they have’nt had the issue of road fuel taxation like here to deal with.Yet.

But if you’re right about rail freight having no axe to grind why would they be making unproven unfounded allegations in regard to road transport operations and why would they wish to protest concerning larger capacity trucks and the reduction/removal of road fuel taxation .It’s the rail industry that’s obviously using the scare tactics and an environmental bs argument to remove the choice of using road transport and to take work from road transport,on the basis of unfair competition.

[carryfast]

Brentanna:
You mean like the 1970 recession oil embargo we had here in NA dont know we managed to get through it and with action on the part of trucking companies and independents came out of it well enough. Oh ya thats right GB didnt get the massive oil embargo. Or like the late 1990’s early part of 2000 when prices went sky high after the massive storms took out 70% of US production which by the way is in the south along the Lousianna, Texas coast. Nope dont know anything about how things should be done, BTDT

Don’t ever remember the States being subjected to the same level of road fuel taxation as we were during,and after,the OPEC oil price increases.So you’re saying that the price of road fuel in North America was the same as here at the time or since .You don’t know the meaning of sky high road fuel prices over there.

But the relevant bit is that the British government charged it’s own people as much,or more,for our own oil as the europeans were paying for the stuff and then blamed it’s own people for the inflation in our economy and lack of competitiveness in our industries that policy caused.

[containers_only]

Carryfast:
Don’t ever remember the States being subjected to the same level of road fuel taxation as we were during,and after,the OPEC oil price increases.So you’re saying that the price of road fuel in North America was the same as here at the time or since .You don’t know the meaning of sky high road fuel prices over there.

Oh common be fare, i was $3.00 a gallon the other week!!! such a high price that fuel prices actually made it to an article in the New York Times!

[containers_only]

Here what you do to get rid of/lower fuel duty.
In a Monday morning rush hour drive down the M1, M3 or M4 into London where it gets particularly busy around Hendon/Bagshot/Maidenhead and pull across all three lanes with your trailer (preferably full up with paper or pallets) you then dump it off with it’s legs still wound up.
You can then either torch the lot and walk across to the opposing carriageway where your friend is waiting to pick you up, or drive off with your unit (i would suggest the former).
You then do the same the following week, and the next and the next until they get the message. (Alternating from M1, M3, M4 as and when required).
If you think that complaining on this forum or driving around London slowly bibbing your horns is going to get you anywhere you’re all insane!
Because who you are dealing with are the most ignorant, arrogant self centered bunch of bankers you wouldn’t wish on your mother.
So you have to take the appropriate action to get your point across

[wheel_nut]

Carryfast:
But if you’re right about rail freight having no axe to grind why would they be making unproven unfounded allegations in regard to road transport operations and why would they wish to protest concerning larger capacity trucks and the reduction/removal of road fuel taxation .It’s the rail industry that’s obviously using the scare tactics and an environmental bs argument to remove the choice of using road transport and to take work from road transport,on the basis of unfair competition.

There is some more misleading and scary information here, but at first glance what does this illustration suggest?

freightonrail.org.uk/index.htm