The eu referendum- how do you intend to vote?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
681

I am certainly no lover of Dave, but like him or not he did not HAVE to give a referendum, he would not be the first PM to break an election promise, and could quite easily have carried out delay tactics until his term finished.
Instead he did try and gain some kind of reform, to win some voters around, and further his agenda , and went ahead with it even when (in hindsight) it was not a certainty for him to win us around. .

Maybe he has more principles than your average MP that is all I am saying, (look at Blair for instance) apart from saying I was delighted with the result.

682

Carryfast:
You do know that peace in Europe has always been about the ‘defence’ of the Nation State ‘against’ the aggression and takeover of the Federation.

I don’t think I do know that, no.

"Peace… has always been about… defence. What does that mean exactly? Peace is defence?

Sounds familiar. Maybe a little bit like “War is Peace”. A nice bit of Doublespeak.

I can’t claim to be as informed as you are on modern European history. I hadn’t realised that Hitler had been attempting to put together a “Federation”, errr… :confused: :question: but these constant references back to the war, jingoistic nostalgia to a time when plucky Britain stood up for itself… it isn’t 1940.

Again from my limited knowledge, I believe a certain moustachioed chap swept into power by telling the impoverished population that the economic problems were a result of the influx of outsiders and plots by unknown shadowy elites, that Germany could be great again just like it used to be, if only…

Such an easy message to sell, and the realities of how inter-dependant countries are on each other are too nuanced and messy, they get lost on people when the real question is “Do you love your country or not”.

How you can’t see the irony of invoking the memory of the war to declare UK “independence” I just don’t know.

And I’m afraid I have never heard of Spinelli.

Edit to Add:

Come to think of it, on your constant Nation v Federation question, Isn’t the UK a federation of nations? Like England, Scotland, Wales and half of Ireland, cos the other half didn’t want to be part of the Union. To follow your logic, why should the Union hold? Why not break up Britain too? After all, we wouldn’t want to harmonise laws etc. to allow administration of a collection of separate nations. That is what your mate Spinelli would want innit?

Free movement of people. You’d have Irish in London, Scots in the Midlands, I mean where does it end?

683

robroy:
I am certainly no lover of Dave, but like him or not he did not HAVE to give a referendum, he would not be the first PM to break an election promise, and could quite easily have carried out delay tactics until his term finished.
Instead he did try and gain some kind of reform, to win some voters around, and further his agenda , and went ahead with it even when (in hindsight) it was not a certainty for him to win us around. .

Maybe he has more principles than your average MP that is all I am saying, (look at Blair for instance) apart from saying I was delighted with the result.

Spot on Rob. I don’t think he’s been the worst pm we’ve ever had, his predecessor has that one wrapped up with a bow on. He inherited the country in a poor state, and seems to have made us fiscally sound again, if Mark Carney is to be believed. But his actions were utterly deplorable throughout the campaign. I called a couple of days ago he should go with either result. To lie about the economy to the point of temporarily crashing the markets, is unforgivable from Downing Street. Quite how George Osborne is carrying on like nothing happened is beyond me

684

robroy:
I am certainly no lover of Dave, but like him or not he did not HAVE to give a referendum, he would not be the first PM to break an election promise, and could quite easily have carried out delay tactics until his term finished.
Instead he did try and gain some kind of reform, to win some voters around, and further his agenda , and went ahead with it even when (in hindsight) it was not a certainty for him to win us around. .

Maybe he has more principles than your average MP that is all I am saying, (look at Blair for instance) apart from saying I was delighted with the result.

also,at least Cameron has had the decency to resign after admitting he backed the wrong horse.
could you see Blair or Brown ever doing that?
who will be next PM?
I hope its Micheal Gove.i think theresa may is in with a big shout aswell.i just hope it isn’t Boris…

685

Osbourne has to go now ,all those threats about a "punishment budget " if we dared to vote leave…

686

He will HAVE to go soon. Can’t see Gove and Boris making his life too easy.

On a side note…for me personally, not only is today the start of a much better future for our country, but it is a nice nod in the direction of all our fallen citizens/soldiers who have paid dearly over the decades to ensure freedom for us all.

Fear is something to be aware of, but not something to be controlled by. Congratulations to all my fellow Brexiters.

687

OVLOV JAY:

eagerbeaver:
I wonder what dodgy Dave will do next?

He used to be a man with a plan. Maybe now he could be man with a van.

Rumour has it he gave a 3 month notice because that’s how long you wait for job seekers :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

He gets the summer recess off as holiday on full pay… C’mon ANY of us would stick around for THAT!

688

Hopefully this is the start of something new. THe main party’s need to chage as it was cross party voters that voted out.
Left and right is a thing of the past most people’s views will be very varried

689

Looooo:

Carryfast:
You do know that peace in Europe has always been about the ‘defence’ of the Nation State ‘against’ the aggression and takeover of the Federation.

I don’t think I do know that, no.

"Peace… has always been about… defence. What does that mean exactly? Peace is defence?

Sounds familiar. Maybe a little bit like “War is Peace”. A nice bit of Doublespeak.

I can’t claim to be as informed as you are on modern European history. I hadn’t realised that Hitler had been attempting to put together a “Federation”, errr… :confused: :question: but these constant references back to the war, jingoistic nostalgia to a time when plucky Britain stood up for itself… it isn’t 1940.

Again from my limited knowledge, I believe a certain moustachioed chap swept into power by telling the impoverished population that the economic problems were a result of the influx of outsiders and plots by unknown shadowy elites, that Germany could be great again just like it used to be, if only…

Such an easy message to sell, and the realities of how inter-dependant countries are on each other are too nuanced and messy, they get lost on people when the real question is “Do you love your country or not”.

How you can’t see the irony of invoking the memory of the war to declare UK “independence” I just don’t know.

And I’m afraid I have never heard of Spinelli.

Edit to Add:

Come to think of it, on your constant Nation v Federation question, Isn’t the UK a federation of nations? Like England, Scotland, Wales and half of Ireland, cos the other half didn’t want to be part of the Union. To follow your logic, why should the Union hold? Why not break up Britain too? After all, we wouldn’t want to harmonise laws etc. to allow administration of a collection of separate nations. That is what your mate Spinelli would want innit?

Free movement of people. You’d have Irish in London, Scots in the Midlands, I mean where does it end?

You didn’t know that Hitler was trying to put together a Federation.So tell us exactly what was the zb Third Reich all about.Next you’ll be saying the zb wasn’t a zb Socialist just like Altiero Spinelli and Stalin.

As for the UK and the Irish I’ve actually got a family link to someone who died for Irish secession from the UK.I’d guess he’d see Ireland’s membership of the EU federation as no different.As I said peace obtained by defence of the Nation State against zb Federalists of whatever type.But Socialists whether Stalin’s version or Hitler’s version or Tito’s version or,as in this case the EU,being some of the worse. :imp:

As for being a remainer but supposedly,more like conveniently,not knowing who and what the Spinelli Group are or the Spinelli Building and who they take their name,from that says it all.

690

google.co.uk/url?sa=t&sourc … T8OUDIMHcw
Watching Cameron yesterday reminded me of this… :laughing:

691

kr79:
Hopefully this is the start of something new. THe main party’s need to chage as it was cross party voters that voted out.
Left and right is a thing of the past most people’s views will be very varried

The key as to whether the country survives for future generations will be the recognition that Nationalist means left not right and certainly not ■■■■.While it remains in massive peril of demographic and socialist takeover if it doesn’t realise that and do something about the immigration issue.To the point in this case where Brexit is still by no means guaranteed regardless of the referendum result.It’s my guess that Leave Group are actually too scared to now implement the vote in that regard.

692

I think the Brexit is going to be a short term disaster for the uk.
Hopefully the economy picks up again when we’re out after the uncertainty and dust settles.

don’t think the Brexit campaign has got a clue what todo now.
Big bojo and gove and the team looked like startled rabbits in head lights yesterday.
I honestly think they thought they were never going to win the Brexit.

I’m against the amount of immigration levels in the uk just now but yesterday has turned the country upside down.

Leaving eu, prime minster and cabinet gone.
Labour leader ready for sack.
Scotland demanding new ref.
Problems in NI with borders.
£ dropped lowest in 30 years

Also don’t like the way farrage says there won’t be no more money for services after basing a campaign on it.
Also borris and gove saying we love immigration after basing there campaign on that.
Just lies.

693

I don’t think we have the luxury of taking our time over it.

Surprisingly, having told EU to 'k-off they are now lining up to say go on then, get going. They aren’t going to stand around waiting for us to get our act together.

Dan Hannan telling Evan Davis on Newsnight that Immigration isn’t necessarily going to come down. I mean, just really.

Earlier in the thread there was an analagy of us being locked in a cell with 50% scared to leave and 50% brave enough to escape. It feels like the ones who dragged us out are now standing blinking in the sun looking at a map upside down and trying to work out how the compass works.

I completely respect the result and there is no way it can be asked again. That is just ridiculous. We’ve made our bed and now have to lie in it but someone ought to come up with a plan pretty quickly. Brits voted with their hearts and now need to put their heads into gear.

Its like when you walk off a job. Tell the boss to stick it and feel great! Then wake up the next morning and and start googling HGV Driver Required. :smiley:

694

It doesn’t help when your primeminster throws in the towel the very next day, now our government have a leadership race to deal with first and foremost plus brexit, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We don’t need to hurry at all and neither should we. The eu wants us out because having us in hurts every single economy in the eu. German and French stock exchanges took bigger hits than the London stock exchange.

2 year withdrawal only begins when article 50 is activated and it’s us that chooses when that happens, could be a year down the line and Brussels can’t do anything other than wait till we’re ready.

The length of time it takes to activate article 50 should be used as a bargaining tool to get a better deal.

Ps what the ■■■■ has happened to Osbourne, hasn’t been seen or heard of since Wednesday?

695

merc0447:
Ps what the [zb] has happened to Osbourne, hasn’t been seen or heard of since Wednesday?

He has half of MI5 locked up in a basement. “All you had to do was use the rubbers, it was only pencil FFS!”

696

merc0447:
It doesn’t help when your primeminster throws in the towel the very next day

The problem is he hasn’t set out a time frame. He should have said he’ll attend the armed forces day today, then give up power at midnight. It puts people in an awkward position, it’s not like the way Thatcher was brought down or Blair giving over to Brown. Most of the government didn’t want him to go, and probably feel awkward about throwing hats into the ring before the time table is announced. Well, apart from his fellow remainer Nicky Morgan that is, I think he’s wiping the blood from his back right now

697

m.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14580094 … _convenor/
Union man at BMW not happy because the workers who voted remain as BMW told them, were “let down” by those who voted leave.
Little ■■■■■■■ Hitlers. :imp:

698

Apparently the referendum is not legally binding…
independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho … 02931.html

699

Themoocher:
I think the Brexit is going to be a short term disaster for the uk.
Hopefully the economy picks up again when we’re out after the uncertainty and dust settles.

don’t think the Brexit campaign has got a clue what todo now.
Big bojo and gove and the team looked like startled rabbits in head lights yesterday.
I honestly think they thought they were never going to win the Brexit.

I’m against the amount of immigration levels in the uk just now but yesterday has turned the country upside down.

Leaving eu, prime minster and cabinet gone.
Labour leader ready for sack.
Scotland demanding new ref.
Problems in NI with borders.
£ dropped lowest in 30 years

Also don’t like the way farrage says there won’t be no more money for services after basing a campaign on it.
Also borris and gove saying we love immigration after basing there campaign on that.
Just lies.

The money - be it £350m a week or any other amount - has yet to be realized. It’s the difference between what they EU WAS paying us (which will no doubt stop very quickly) and what we pay THEM - which SHOULD have been cancelled friday - but probably has been left running as an oversight… A bit like scrapping your car, and forgetting to cancel the Road Tax direct debit. Doh!

Until that “standing order” is revoked then - there IS no money at ALL for ANYTHING. Cameron Resigning “with notice” like that was absolutely the worst, most spiteful thing he could to to the Tory pary, Parliament, and the whole country (not necessarily in that order). :frowning:

700

andy187:
Apparently the referendum is not legally binding…
independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho … 02931.html

Yada yada yada. If call me Dave didn’t jack in yesterday, maybe. But I’d be very surprised, and expect a lot of civil unrest