Can see carryfast is still hammering google and the copy and paste feature and am voting out
Does anyone else have an answer? Its obvious Carryfast doesnt but doesnt want to admit it incase it harms his brexit agenda
Here’s Harry’s essential voting guide.
Are you better off than you were ten years ago? If so, vote “Remain”.
Are you worse off than you were ten years ago? If so, vote “Leave”.
The-Snowman:
Heres a question.
I keep hearing if we cut foreign labour then employers will have to increase wages due to no cheap foreign labour. Great in theory but if that happens, I can see one of two things happening -
- Everyone gets a wage increase. The cost of selling for companies goes up due to higher production cost. Companies dont buy from them as they are more expensive than other sources outwith the UK. Companies inside UK close down one by one. Or
- They dont offer a wage increase at all and instead say “bugger that. We’re not paying that. Lets relocate to X country. Cheaper to produce”
BTW, im not saying we should accept [zb] hourly wages just to be lucky to have a job, im just asking what will getting higher wages (if that even happens post brexit. No law says they MUST give a wage increase) do to the end result of the UK job market. Is there something in place to counter balance the increase in production costs that will be felt from a wage spike?
Wot about the other obvious effect? - Inflation returning to the British Economy (At last!) which then permits debts to be eroded once again by rising prices where wages and investment returns keep up - but debt repayments get cheaper and cheaper over time…
Low inflation is good for those with a private income.
High inflation is good for those who have to work for a living.
Retired? - A defined benefits pension is cushy indeed in a low-inflation environment OR high inflation one.
A defined CONTRIBUTIONS pension though? - can only be good in a high inflation environment.
Mark my words here: Everyone retiring in about 20-25 years from now - will be shocked to find their “defined contributions” pensions worth well under HALF what they expected them to be. This is despite the fact that we’ve already been led to “expect less” beforehand as well. It’s no longer even a foregone conclusion that you’ll get out what you paid in FFS. The Pension industry will blame low interest rates and negative bond yields.
I’ll blame the pensions industry for NOT partaking of the same casino banking that investment bankers dabble in for their OWN benefit - but not the paying public for OURS. 
The referendum is the same decision to be made:
DO we want a continuous small loss that’s wearable - but a guaranteed loss nonetheless?
OR do we want a good chance of a massive return - but a tiny risk of losing everything?
We might as well have thugs going down the streets asking everyone for a quid - or you can “resist” and get your head kicked in trying to defend whatever the contents of your wallet are at that moment…
The British mentality is all too often that we’d risk life and limb “resisting handing over that pound” even if your wallet contains a mouldy sweet and 25p at that point.".
“It’s the principal of that thing” they’d say.
Well. That British “Bloody-Mindedness” is about the only thing that will keep us out of selling our entire country to the EU forever as of next friday morning.
Einstein once declared that “Compound Interest is the most powerful force in the Universe”.
When you’re borrowing money at compound interest - that debt will cause you damage therefore.
When you’re NOT getting a positive investment return on your savings - you are ALSO losing at a compounded rate over time.
Those who loaned the government money in the form of the 1917 war bonds - had lost 99% of their investment in real terms by the time Osbourne finally decided to cancel them down fairly recently, nearly a century on.
‘Losing that doesn’t feel like Losing’ - is perhaps the worst loss of all. Because it’s as guaranteed as death once you embark upon that path! The inertia to get OFF that path is huge, because you don’t feel like you are losing! 
Harry Monk:
wing-nut:
Harry Monk:
wing-nut:
Neil Woodford who is one of the most successful investment fund managers currently managing £8.6billionAnd you think somebody like this has your interests at heart?
He’s made me enough money over the years for a very comfy retirement so the answer has to be yes
Are you for real? Yes, I’m sure Neil Woodford has made a whole bunch of money for a comfortable retirement, but where exactly do the interests of an investment fund manager and a truck driver cross paths?
I didn’t say they did cross paths. My original post was simply a link to an independent and unbiased report which he had had prepared which may just be helpful to some of the more undecided amongst us and may give a better idea of post-brexit than all this ■■■■■■■■ we’re being told at present.
The-Snowman:
Does anyone else have an answer? Its obvious Carryfast doesnt but doesnt want to admit it incase it harms his brexit agenda
No one has the answer mate, because no one can predict the future. But could make calculated speculation waht might happen and what might not.
Just think about it for a moment. Cheap labor is essential in processing plants, farm, fruits and veggie industry etc. who export much of their product to EU. If post Brexit people are asked to leave employers will have to hire Brits, who might not want to work on minimum wage. The employers has few choices - increase wage, make the product more expensive, less profit, less reinvestment, less jobs. Also consider that EU will impose tariffs(10-15% under WTO) to protect the very same businesses in France, Poland, etc.
When you think about it as an employers will be suicide to increase wage.
What will happen with car industry, where 75,5% of cars made in Britain are sold in EU(905 000), under WTO rules there is 15% tax, you think about favorable trade agreement. Well think hard because Czech Republic(Skoda) might veto this agreement, Slovakia(Kia/Hyundai) might to the same,Italy, France. How many countries will want chunk from this market - Polish and French farmers for example.
And what will happen with car manufacturers in UK, what will stop them to relocate to mainland, nothing will thats the answer.
Everyone say we(Brits) buy Germany BMW’s they will not dare put tariffs, they will want trade agreement, but there is not only Germany to worry about, but 27 other member who can veto at anytime. Especially if knowing that they can get Nissan or Honda factory into their country.
I dont see nmw rising as a result of Brexit. If by 2020 nmw becomes 9p/h then employers will be able to choose between natives and foreigners as Brits will be more willing to do “dirty” jobs as well.
Speaking just from capitalist point of view(profit at all cost), if I were employer, Ill relocate to EE, keep the cheap labor, keep the profit and the market and forget about post Brexit bureaucracy, tariffs, borders, expensive transactions and who knows what else.
wing-nut:
My original post was simply a link to an independent and unbiased report which he had had prepared which may just be helpful to some of the more undecided amongst us and may give a better idea of post-brexit than all this ■■■■■■■■ we’re being told at present.
Totally biased in it’s assumption that minimising of wage levels and by implication resulting deflationary environment and reduced tax revenues and the burden of in work benefits,are all a good thing.Which ironically also destroys the Labour Party case for supporting Brexit.Although as we all know Labour’s support of EU membership has nothing to do with British jobs for British workers or domestic workers rights and living standards.IE what’s perceived as being good for Socialism in the case of Federal rule, not workers.
Which on that note obviously leaves the issue of Sovereign Nation State v Federation.
Dolph:
The-Snowman:
Does anyone else have an answer? Its obvious Carryfast doesnt but doesnt want to admit it incase it harms his brexit agendaNo one has the answer mate, because no one can predict the future. But could make calculated speculation waht might happen and what might not.
Just think about it for a moment. Cheap labor is essential in processing plants, farm, fruits and veggie industry etc. who export much of their product to EU. If post Brexit people are asked to leave employers will have to hire Brits, who might not want to work on minimum wage. The employers has few choices - increase wage, make the product more expensive, less profit, less reinvestment, less jobs. Also consider that EU will impose tariffs(10-15% under WTO) to protect the very same businesses in France, Poland, etc.
When you think about it as an employers will be suicide to increase wage.
What will happen with car industry, where 75,5% of cars made in Britain are sold in EU(905 000), under WTO rules there is 15% tax, you think about favorable trade agreement. Well think hard because Czech Republic(Skoda) might veto this agreement, Slovakia(Kia/Hyundai) might to the same,Italy, France. How many countries will want chunk from this market - Polish and French farmers for example.
And what will happen with car manufacturers in UK, what will stop them to relocate to mainland, nothing will thats the answer.
Everyone say we(Brits) buy Germany BMW’s they will not dare put tariffs, they will want trade agreement, but there is not only Germany to worry about, but 27 other member who can veto at anytime. Especially if knowing that they can get Nissan or Honda factory into their country.I dont see nmw rising as a result of Brexit. If by 2020 nmw becomes 9p/h then employers will be able to choose between natives and foreigners as Brits will be more willing to do “dirty” jobs as well.
Speaking just from capitalist point of view(profit at all cost), if I were employer, Ill relocate to EE, keep the cheap labor, keep the profit and the market and forget about post Brexit bureaucracy, tariffs, borders, expensive transactions and who knows what else.
Cheers.
Its kind of what I suspected TBH. I dont see wages rising automatically. I more see a “heres the wage, take it or the plant/factory moves to somewhere else”
Dolph:
The-Snowman:
Does anyone else have an answer? Its obvious Carryfast doesnt but doesnt want to admit it incase it harms his brexit agendaNo one has the answer mate, because no one can predict the future. But could make calculated speculation waht might happen and what might not.
Just think about it for a moment. Cheap labor is essential in processing plants, farm, fruits and veggie industry etc. who export much of their product to EU. If post Brexit people are asked to leave employers will have to hire Brits, who might not want to work on minimum wage. The employers has few choices - increase wage, make the product more expensive, less profit, less reinvestment, less jobs. Also consider that EU will impose tariffs(10-15% under WTO) to protect the very same businesses in France, Poland, etc.
When you think about it as an employers will be suicide to increase wage.
What will happen with car industry, where 75,5% of cars made in Britain are sold in EU(905 000), under WTO rules there is 15% tax, you think about favorable trade agreement. Well think hard because Czech Republic(Skoda) might veto this agreement, Slovakia(Kia/Hyundai) might to the same,Italy, France. How many countries will want chunk from this market - Polish and French farmers for example.
And what will happen with car manufacturers in UK, what will stop them to relocate to mainland, nothing will thats the answer.
Everyone say we(Brits) buy Germany BMW’s they will not dare put tariffs, they will want trade agreement, but there is not only Germany to worry about, but 27 other member who can veto at anytime. Especially if knowing that they can get Nissan or Honda factory into their country.I dont see nmw rising as a result of Brexit. If by 2020 nmw becomes 9p/h then employers will be able to choose between natives and foreigners as Brits will be more willing to do “dirty” jobs as well.
Speaking just from capitalist point of view(profit at all cost), if I were employer, Ill relocate to EE, keep the cheap labor, keep the profit and the market and forget about post Brexit bureaucracy, tariffs, borders, expensive transactions and who knows what else.
Great work Dolph yet more destruction of Labou’rs support of the EU. 
IE an institution based on race to the bottom economics and East Euro workers who are all too keen to support the low wage agenda by under cutting the UK workforce rather than support the idea of a Euro minimum wage based on the highest possible level.Workers of the world unite in the cause of worker solidarity for better living standards yeah right.
As for the rest yet more bs that a net exporter will want to kick off a trade war with a net importer of its products.Bring it on.I can foresee that resulting in a massive expansion of UK car manufacturing for the domestic market just as in the case of pre EU days.Remind us where Bulgaria was economically when Ford and GM both had massive car manufacturing operations here dedicated to just the domestic market in that regard.
The-Snowman:
I more see a “heres the wage, take it or the plant/factory moves to somewhere else”
No that’s exactly what we’ve got now.Including with the situation of no need to always move it anywhere else because we can import all the labour we need from the same low wage expectation EU states including soon Turkey.
As opposed to you hit us with tarrifs we hit you and we’re going to re balance the economy to a more manufacturing industry based one anyway.In which increasing wage levels and reducing the trade deficit with Europe is the first priority.
Carryfast:
Dolph:
The-Snowman:
Does anyone else have an answer? Its obvious Carryfast doesnt but doesnt want to admit it incase it harms his brexit agendaNo one has the answer mate, because no one can predict the future. But could make calculated speculation waht might happen and what might not.
Just think about it for a moment. Cheap labor is essential in processing plants, farm, fruits and veggie industry etc. who export much of their product to EU. If post Brexit people are asked to leave employers will have to hire Brits, who might not want to work on minimum wage. The employers has few choices - increase wage, make the product more expensive, less profit, less reinvestment, less jobs. Also consider that EU will impose tariffs(10-15% under WTO) to protect the very same businesses in France, Poland, etc.
When you think about it as an employers will be suicide to increase wage.
What will happen with car industry, where 75,5% of cars made in Britain are sold in EU(905 000), under WTO rules there is 15% tax, you think about favorable trade agreement. Well think hard because Czech Republic(Skoda) might veto this agreement, Slovakia(Kia/Hyundai) might to the same,Italy, France. How many countries will want chunk from this market - Polish and French farmers for example.
And what will happen with car manufacturers in UK, what will stop them to relocate to mainland, nothing will thats the answer.
Everyone say we(Brits) buy Germany BMW’s they will not dare put tariffs, they will want trade agreement, but there is not only Germany to worry about, but 27 other member who can veto at anytime. Especially if knowing that they can get Nissan or Honda factory into their country.I dont see nmw rising as a result of Brexit. If by 2020 nmw becomes 9p/h then employers will be able to choose between natives and foreigners as Brits will be more willing to do “dirty” jobs as well.
Speaking just from capitalist point of view(profit at all cost), if I were employer, Ill relocate to EE, keep the cheap labor, keep the profit and the market and forget about post Brexit bureaucracy, tariffs, borders, expensive transactions and who knows what else.Great work Dolph yet more destruction of Labou’rs support of the EU.
As for the rest yet more bs that a net exporter will want to kick off a trade war with a net importer of its products.Bring it on.I can foresee that resulting in a massive expansion of UK car manufacturing for the domestic market just as in the case of pre EU days.Remind us where Bulgaria was economically when Ford and GM both had massive car manufacturing operations here dedicated to just the domestic market in that regard.
Its the WEST employers, governments,politicians, businesses, corporation etc. who screw up employees, its not EE vs WE employees. Yes I would love EU nmw, but its not possible as of today. US is perfect example, the richest states like California, Washington have $9-10/h wage, others don’t. Thats why you have California 40 mil people and Missouri at 6 mil - just a simple example.
Net exporter on paper, in reality 44% of your export is for EU, while 8% from EU goes to UK. No one is starting trade war, post Brexit you become Third country in a sense, like Canada, US etc. You either have trade agreement, trade under WTO or not trade at all.
Use the right mouse button to translate to English if your really want to know where Bulgaria was when GM were making cars in UK
bgistoria.jimdo.com/%D0%B1%D1%8A … %BC%D0%B5/
Even when comes to trucking we had the biggest truck fleet in Europe and the Middle East at a time.
bulgarianhistory.org/rubriki … %B2%D1%82/
P.S. Now we have nothing, you and all of your pals in the West destroyed it one way or another. Complain about cheap labor…give me a break.
To add to the EU army and tax codes, they also want “green taxes” on fuel. As if we don’t get ripped off enough at the pumps.
Dolph:
Its the WEST employers, governments,politicians, businesses, corporation etc. who screw up employees, its not EE vs WE employees. Yes I would love EU nmw, but its not possible as of today. US is perfect example, the richest states like California, Washington have $9-10/h wage, others don’t. Thats why you have California 40 mil people and Missouri at 6 mil - just a simple example.Net exporter on paper, in reality 44% of your export is for EU, while 8% from EU goes to UK. No one is starting trade war, post Brexit you become Third country in a sense, like Canada, US etc. You either have trade agreement, trade under WTO or not trade at all.
Firstly the US has a Federal US minimum wage.Admittedly lower than ours but the precedent is there in that it exists.While ironically there’s no reason as to why there should be any need to give up sovereignty to create something similar in Europe on a Confederal basis.
Who cares about the total respective ‘amount’ of trade between the EU and UK when it’s the actual figure in the difference in cash valuation that matters.That figure unarguably showing that trade with the EU is a net burden on our economy not an asset.That figure also not being uniformly spread equally across the EU.In which case as I said we’d benefit massively by imposing selective trade tarrifs against Germany for one example on the basis that the more the EU hits us we hit Germany in retaliation disproportionately.Which as I’ve said is what we ‘should’ have done under EFTA in 1973 instead of joining the scam.In which case we’d probably still have similar car manufacturing operations at Daghenham and Luton at least among others as we had in 1972.With the same type of example applying right across our manufacturing sector.
On that note feel free to continue with the bs idea that the UK market only forms 8% of the value of Germany’s exports as opposed to what the German market forms of ours.IE Germany needs us more than we need the EU which is what is really bothering the bankers.
Radar19:
To add to the EU army and tax codes, they also want “green taxes” on fuel. As if we don’t get ripped off enough at the pumps.
Which is why the Greens like the EU.On the basis that there’s no way that the Greens can get the required electoral mandate to do that within the UK Nation State government system of democratic accountability.IE the EU federal government system is a massive vote force multiplier for them. 
As for an EU Federal army history of other previous Federal systems suggests that would be more about stamping out any secessionist movement,within the EU.Bearing in mind that war in Europe has generally been a case of defence of the Nation State against the aggression of the Federation.
Dolph:
No one has the answer mate, because no one can predict the future. .
And there it is 
The sentence that sums up the entire thread in a nutshell …and is the most accurate statement on here.
Everything said on here, everything said by both sides in the entire campaign is pure speculation, based on personal and party OPINION,… with a bit personal agenda thrown in, whatever that may or may not be.
The more scaremongering that goes on, in an effort to frighten voters into deciding, suggests to me that the true personal agenda there is hidden…
robroy:
Dolph:
No one has the answer mate, because no one can predict the future. .And there it is
Everything said on here, everything said by both sides in the entire campaign is pure speculation, based on personal and party OPINION,… with a bit personal agenda thrown in, whatever that may or may not be.
The more scaremongering that goes on, in an effort to frighten voters into deciding, suggests to me that the true personal agenda there is hidden…
True. But weve gotta make choice on the info to hand. Im disappointed at how bad tempered this whole debate has become. (Shocked but not surprised). The maneuvering by politicians (of all views) has been a disgrace. More lies and half truths have been spun so much that any web weaving spider would be jealous.
Franglais:
robroy:
Dolph:
No one has the answer mate, because no one can predict the future. .And there it is
Everything said on here, everything said by both sides in the entire campaign is pure speculation, based on personal and party OPINION,… with a bit personal agenda thrown in, whatever that may or may not be.
The more scaremongering that goes on, in an effort to frighten voters into deciding, suggests to me that the true personal agenda there is hidden…True. But we
ve gotta make choice on the info to hand. Im disappointed at how bad tempered this whole debate has become. (Shocked but not surprised). The maneuvering by politicians (of all views) has been a disgrace. More lies and half truths have been spun so much that any web weaving spider would be jealous.
Seeing how increasingly nasty each general election becomes it was always going to be like this given it is one of the most important decisions we will ever make, for us and for future generations, the lies threats pseudo blackmail soothsaying and plucking figures from out of their arses on a daily basis worryingly seem to have been treated with anything but scorn by many.
Few headline grabbers come out of this well.
“Seeing how increasingly nasty each general election becomes it was always going to be like this given it is one of the most important decisions we will ever make, for us and for future generations, the lies threats pseudo blackmail soothsaying and plucking figures from out of their arses on a daily basis worryingly seem to have been treated with anything but scorn by many.” Juddian.
As I said, shocked, but not surprised.
And, as you say, its a decision likely to affect mostly those generations following thee n` me, Juddian.
I couldn’t care less if car makers go abroad, we haven’t had our own large scale manufacturer since Rover went (thankfully).
I haven’t bought a British built car in years anyway.
Muckaway:
I couldn’t care less if car makers go abroad, we haven’t had our own large scale manufacturer since Rover went (thankfully).
I haven’t bought a British built car in years anyway.
This sums it up for me too. Everyone harps on about the tariffs on new bmw’s, but I don’t personally know anyone below a company director level that has bought one brand new anyway. It’s only a tax on the rich, which we know call me Dave fights tooth and nail against