This may be the final straw for me. I have just trawled through another 100 + pages of H&S about why our parents and grandparents are not alive any longer, they all leapt of the back of a trailer with a wet tarpaulin and it suffocated them 
For those who can’t be arsed to read the above I found you some nice pictures to show the grandkids!
so how do these lads and lasses carry on with sawdust and alike cos their curtains are always bulging (im expecting sarcastic comments to that lol) could see the arguement in a random stop
vosa: Right drive i want you to open your curtains so a I can check load security
Driver: No thanks mate you can open them if you like though be my guest
think we can all wipe our own rear ends so as drivers we know how and when to use straps or ropes ok a small minority dont but you get them in all walks of life its properly been said before it not road safety all this its road profit which is a shame cos i wouldnt swap driving for the world no way could i go work in a warehouse or anything else like it.
Dont worry lads you will get use to it 25 ton mdf boards secured with straps for 125ton we been doing it for a long time now in Germany.(red - brown straps 2.5t yellow 5.0t) 
lofty82:
so how do these lads and lasses carry on with sawdust and alike cos their curtains are always bulging (im expecting sarcastic comments to that lol) could see the arguement in a random stop
vosa: Right drive i want you to open your curtains so a I can check load security
Driver: No thanks mate you can open them if you like though be my guest
think we can all wipe our own rear ends so as drivers we know how and when to use straps or ropes ok a small minority dont but you get them in all walks of life its properly been said before it not road safety all this its road profit which is a shame cos i wouldnt swap driving for the world no way could i go work in a warehouse or anything else like it.
The next time you are following a UBC / Interbulk Container, see if you can read the yellow sticker on the back doors. Apparently a lot of customs and plod cannot, then they fail to see the funny side when 5 tonne of bulk powder comes at them like an avalanche 
gbtransp:
Dont worry lads you will get use to it 25 ton mdf boards secured with straps for 125ton we been doing it for a long time now in Germany.(red - brown straps 2.5t yellow 5.0t)
In the interests of fair play. I feel I must point this thread out to you 
Andrew Leitch:
Carryfast:
But it would be strapped down even tighter if you use one lot of straps on the lower row and then another lot of straps over the second level instead of trying to use the tension of one lot of straps acting on just the top lot hoping it will also hold the bottom lot as well.I know what you’re getting at as that method was used on loads that were ‘3 packs’ high. Strap the middle row of packs as well as the top third row of packs.
That photo was taken roughly 8 years ago, (SOL colours), and it was decided that two straps per top & bottom packs (six per load), was adequate. Later the H&S bods changed it to three straps per top & bottom packs, giving a total of nine straps.
The next time you are following a UBC / Interbulk Container, see if you can read the yellow sticker on the back doors. Apparently a lot of customs and plod cannot, then they fail to see the funny side when 5 tonne of bulk powder comes at them like an avalanche
haha i would pay to see that think that would be on my top 5 of funniest things
In the interests of fair play. I feel I must point this thread out to you
Andrew Leitch wrote:
Carryfast wrote:
But it would be strapped down even tighter if you use one lot of straps on the lower row and then another lot of straps over the second level instead of trying to use the tension of one lot of straps acting on just the top lot hoping it will also hold the bottom lot as well.
I know what you’re getting at as that method was used on loads that were ‘3 packs’ high. Strap the middle row of packs as well as the top third row of packs.
That photo was taken roughly 8 years ago, (SOL colours), and it was decided that two straps per top & bottom packs (six per load), was adequate. Later the H&S bods changed it to three straps per top & bottom packs, giving a total of nine strapsfor about
I did argue with the forkie for about 30 min about strapping this way, pointing out it is a “certificerd” trailer and states clearly in the certificate that if the lashing holes are to be used on the side, the straps are not to be fitted less than 1m apart exactly the distance the 13 lashing points on the floor are, thats why we lash them in block, 1 strap for one lashing point but he was adement about doing it this way ,it was Friday and i wanted to get home they have got another factory 25klicks away were we load 25 tons of hardboard ther the rules are “at least 12 2.5t straps”
44 Tonne Ton:
I know the concrete block association did some tests a few years ago comparing ropes and straps for securing bricks and blocks. Their conclusions were that straps were considerably better than ropes and issued guidelines to that effect. I’m curious to know though who made ropes illegal to use? Or is this just another example of Plod/Vosa applying their own interpretation of the law?
God after reading the whole thread there is so much to answer
askoxford.com/results/?view= … ore%2Cname
How can VOSA plod etc look into the future to assume a load is insecure looking at the definition of insecure, technically if it’s on the wagon it’s not an insecure load as it can be reloaded before falling off 
I have stopped with fertiliser guys, who have rounded a bend and “nearly” lost the load, prob against better judgement and an arsekicking i have managed to limp them somewhwere to “sort” it.
I have also stopped with masses of different shed/insecure loads/bone stupid drivers who think that because "it’s never happened before, it won’t happen again " they don’t even consider how lucky they have been in the past, maybe it’s time to re-asses/improve how you do things you’ve had a lucky escape
With regard to 44 tonnes quote, ropes are round, straps are flat so that’s possibly a better way to load “sharp” loads with a bit of “padding/protection” to prevent chafing.
All i know is that every case should be looked at on it’s own merits and too many VOSA/BIB, haven’t got much idea about loading different products or the haulage/transport industry in general, Blesss 'em .
After looking and listening to many conversations, i wish VOSA would concentrate on road safety primarily as i thought that’s why they were set up, then followed by serious enforcement/fines for repeat offenders, maybe that’s why they brought the traffic light system in but like all systems it is flawed and needs a coat of looking at 
.
“Ropes don’t hold the load well enough sonny”
“Tell you what, Officer, you shove your hand under the rope, I’ll tighten it up like I always do then tell me what you think”
… 5 severed pinkies later…
“Tight enough for you?”
i had a do with a traffic cop in north wales about 15 years ago over this sort of thing
i had animal feed in bags on pallets and they were quite bulky so curtains were a bit pregnant pigish
but the pallets were jammed in and nothing would move
anyhow he pulls me over and asks me to open curtain he was thinking it would all fall out which it never i did have straps on doubled up pallets but he didnt think it was enough
what would happen if you went round a roundabout and a ton fell out onto a car he said
i want to see that load would stay in one piece if the trailer went over
i replied if i was in a car i would rather a ton fell on me than 24 tons
he took some pictures and didnt do me
as for fert are they saying a strap over every line of bags ?
thats a lot of straps on 600kg bags
as for the tonne ones if the loader bangs them down on the body a bit when loading they aint going anywhere
another nail in the coffin of the late common sense
Conor:
“Ropes don’t hold the load well enough sonny”
“Tell you what, Officer, you shove your hand under the rope, I’ll tighten it up like I always do then tell me what you think”… 5 severed pinkies later…
“Tight enough for you?”
Can remember tying down pallets stacked a mile high with just ropes using double dolly knots and hearing the cracking of breaking wood as I pulled the ropes down.
Wheel Nut:
gbtransp:
Dont worry lads you will get use to it 25 ton mdf boards secured with straps for 125ton we been doing it for a long time now in Germany.(red - brown straps 2.5t yellow 5.0t)
In the interests of fair play. I feel I must point this thread out to you
Andrew Leitch:
Carryfast:
But it would be strapped down even tighter if you use one lot of straps on the lower row and then another lot of straps over the second level instead of trying to use the tension of one lot of straps acting on just the top lot hoping it will also hold the bottom lot as well.I know what you’re getting at as that method was used on loads that were ‘3 packs’ high. Strap the middle row of packs as well as the top third row of packs.
That photo was taken roughly 8 years ago, (SOL colours), and it was decided that two straps per top & bottom packs (six per load), was adequate. Later the H&S bods changed it to three straps per top & bottom packs, giving a total of nine straps.
England 1 Germany 0.
Theres a firm down here in South Wales-(nice big green trucks)who pull bulk bags of sand out of Burry Port destined for builders merchants etc,and there is not a single rope/strap at all on their loads-these are the guys who vosa should be interested in.
The answer is here:
Tobyjug:
The answer is here:
You have missed the point haven’t you? The loads were not insecure, they were secured by a tarpaulin and ropes, “Roped every third hook”
The tarpaulin and the ties wrap the load and the ropes are then tightened over it. I would bet my house that is more secured than spansets over big bags in a curtain sided trailer.
Read this, these are the people who are changing things.
hse.gov.uk/workplacetranspor … straps.htm
Lashings can be webbing straps or chain — but not both in the same lashing.
Check webbing straps regularly for damage — even a small cut or tear can reduce the strength of the strap significantly.
Report damaged or broken straps.
Don’t tie knots in straps.
Use edge protectors or sleeves to protect straps that pass over a sharp or rough edge such as steel or concrete.
Rope is not suitable for lashing.
Webbing straps suspended from the roof of a curtain-sided vehicle are not suitable for load restraint. There are load restraint systems that, when not in use, are held into the roof of the trailer by cords or bungees, however these systems do not rely on the strength of the trailer superstructure for their load securing capability.
What would happen if you refused to open the trailer for the vostapo because it would mean breaking the seal ?, in 21 years of driving I have never seen a bulk bag come off a trailer. I would think that if you did over cook it into a bend it would be preferable in most cases for the load to come off rather than the vehicle tip over. Another case of a civil servant trying to justify his pointless job.
just have a look at this film clip this firm is one if not the best in Germany as regards
equipment for load lashing well worth a look at
HERE
For years rope and sheets where the only way to secure a load most Vosa and the police are used to seeing tauts so when a loaded flat comes into sight because it is not within there scope of knowledge to understand how a driver can keep a load on with a minimum of restraints it does not matter if the driver has been doing the job for years they have the law on there side and argue as we may you will get a fnp and thats that.
brit pete:
just have a look at this film clip this firm is one if not the best in Germany as regards
equipment for load lashing well worth a look at
HERE
The advantage does’nt seem to be the type of strap etc but the way in which the divisible load has been secured,especially in the fore and aft plane,at numerous points.It does’nt seem to give any info as to the gross weight on that test but it does’nt look like a fully freighted 40 tonner ? .But I would’nt have liked to try a 38 tonne gross load of newsprint paper reels secured the old way in the fore and aft plane by a roped cross and wedges at each end on that type of test.