it has to be a fully loaded 40tn vehicle as the firm would not get a certificate
for the equipment unless it had proved its self before the GERMAN TÃœV and
also there office which tests such equipment before putting its seal on it
the BMÄ office,
North America has similar rules for flat trailer loads, the number of straps that must be put on depends on the length & weight of the load, all load securement equipment, straps & chains, must be marked with a load rating, it makes sense really, but & here’s the big but, the yanks have a standard & every transport company is aware of it, the UK does not & it seems that VOSA have just decided that a load held on with ropes & sheets is insecure, coincidentally at the same time they became able to issue fixed penalties 
They’re just a BOCs 
I’ve done flat work both sides of the Atlantic & some of the loads I carried in the US with chains or straps spaced at the correct intervals, with the required load ratings, were exactly the same as loads I’ve held on with ropes & sheets in the UK, none of it ever fell off or even shifted, by definition, a load held on with ropes is a safe as a load that is strapped 
I’ve also done the ton bags of sand that mb14 refers to, not a lot of point roping over a pile of sand, try it, you can get a rope tight enough to play a tune on, then as the load settles going down the road the rope comes loose, a bag of sand takes a lot to shift, believe me, you can drive like a complete maniac & it will stay where it is, the lorry will be on its side before they fall off. For other types of loose commodity in ton bags the correct way to secure them on a flat, would be to throw a sheet over it, any proper flat driver will tell you it’s the sheet that holds the load on, the ropes just hold the sheet on
BIGRIG:
I cant rope and sheet does that mean im not a proper trucker
No Sir you are a proper “Trucker” cause thats modern and you obviously drive a truck your just not a “Lorry Driver” no offence but lorry drivers can rope & sheet.
Fly sheet
brit pete:
just have a look at this film clip this firm is one if not the best in Germany as regards
equipment for load lashing well worth a look at
HERE
Those Octobins were the forerunner of Big Bags and used in the Polystyrene, Polythene and PVC industry and are quite stable. I am not saying that they don’t need securing but ropes and sheets would withstand that test too.
I have asked John Stanfield if he minds me “borrowing” this picture from his Four in Line thread. I hope he lets me leave it up, as it demonstrates what a well sheeted load was like.
Wheel Nut:
brit pete:
just have a look at this film clip this firm is one if not the best in Germany as regards
equipment for load lashing well worth a look at
HEREThose Octobins were the forerunner of Big Bags and used in the Polystyrene, Polythene and PVC industry and are quite stable. I am not saying that they don’t need securing but ropes and sheets would withstand that test too.
I used to sheet and rope over and between the octabins, the same with drums. As has already been said the sheet holds the load on and the rope holds the sheet on.
Say what you like about cops & vosas they retire early & get fantastic pensions .
Now don’t you all be getting excited the game today for enforcement is making money,ropes this week what’s next.If you don’t like it plead ‘not guilty’ as I did and rob a bank to pay high court costs.Vosa and the Police all know we haven’t got the money to take them on so I can assure you it will continue until thay are stopped…somehow.Best seems to me get one or other to take a bung and they will and film it…discreetly with your digi then we can hand it all over to a TV company…that might just put an end to fixed penalty abuse.
A man in a pub told me they get promoted based on how much wonga they bring in ?
[quote=“newmercman” For other types of loose commodity in ton bags the correct way to secure them on a flat, would be to throw a sheet over it, any proper flat driver will tell you it’s the sheet that holds the load on, the ropes just hold the sheet on [/quote]
:shock If that’s right then the lazy zb’s like me who only sheeted a load when I absolutely had to,like paper reels,would have lost the load everytime. 
But surely there’s no way that 20 tonnes of paper or whatever + all shifting in unison is going to actually be stopped by a bit of canvas or plastic sheeting although the sheets might help spread some of the pulling effort across divisions in the load 
.As a flat driver I’d have said it’s the ropes/chains/straps that do all the work and the pulling and the sheets just keep it dry just like on a tilt which I always preferred because I always hated sheeting bad enough to put up with all the aggro of using one of those instead. 
Wheel Nut:
I have asked John Stanfield if he minds me “borrowing” this picture from his Four in Line thread. I hope he lets me leave it up, as it demonstrates what a well sheeted load was like.
But I’d have cross roped the top row the same as the bottom row.
Carryfast:
[quote=“newmercman” For other types of loose commodity in ton bags the correct way to secure them on a flat, would be to throw a sheet over it, any proper flat driver will tell you it’s the sheet that holds the load on, the ropes just hold the sheet on
:shock If that’s right then the lazy zb’s like me who only sheeted a load when I absolutely had to,like paper reels,would have lost the load everytime.
See
I’m different. Roll a fly sheet over a load of fert/cement even barrels and I only had to rope every 2nd/3rd one and know it was secure. without the sheet I had to have a rope over everyone
renaultman:
Carryfast:
[quote=“newmercman” For other types of loose commodity in ton bags the correct way to secure them on a flat, would be to throw a sheet over it, any proper flat driver will tell you it’s the sheet that holds the load on, the ropes just hold the sheet on:shock If that’s right then the lazy zb’s like me who only sheeted a load when I absolutely had to,like paper reels,would have lost the load everytime.
I had to have a rope over everyone
[/quote]
But if it’s a divisible load that’s an advantage by securing as many parts independently of the other to cut down the possibilities of the load all trying to shift in unison.
To me the loss of ropes and sheets and flat trailers has spoiled the camaraderie of road transport. I could rope and sheet a load when I was 12 or 13, before that I couldn’t manage to throw a rope over a high load without a ladder.
The firm where I learned my trade had just taken on a woman driver and they sent me with her for most of the school holidays, she would buy my breakfast and I would help her to sheet up. She didn’t need help, but it made me feel important.
But from what I remember, it didn’t matter where you went, as soon as you got your ropes off, in rain or shine, another driver from another company would be grabbing a corner and pulling off the sheet with you. they would then help you wrap it up or they would do one while you did the other. Fork lift drivers or drivers would help you chuck the sheet on top of the load or on the trailer and even do the opposite hooks when you were roping up.
Unfortunately now, drivers are in such a rush, and so anti social they would not ■■■■ on you if you were on fire. That is the reason there are no proper transport cafe’s open, it is the reason why a lorry park is full of drivers with their curtains closed watching soaps. Health and Safety have spoiled the industry too by banning drivers from climbing onto the load or in many cases from even being involved in the loading process, yet when it all goes wrong, the driver gets the blame.
As previously mentioned on these forums I was born with a fairly serious disability which I coped with until now, but if I could do this job it wasn’t so difficult. One of my first proper jobs was working for a paper company and we ran all the baled paper into Desborough or Selby. This was intimidating at first when I saw how quick these lads had the sheets off, tipped and into the office for paperwork. But they didn’t leave me they helped me, they showed me their tips and tricks and within a month I was showing the new lads the ropes literally.
It was satisfying to sheet a load up and you tried to make it look better than the previous one. I used to be ashamed picking Dutch Ferry flat trailers up out of Hull docks as they used sliced pieces of inner tube as sheet ties and ratchet straps or knotted straps if anything to hold the load on. I have re-sheeted many a Dutch load on the dock before being seen on the road with it. The company I worked for had no issue with rope and you could pick up 2 or 3 new coils a week from the agents office without penalty.
God That’s Better. I feel calm again 
Wheel Nut:
To me the loss of ropes and sheets and flat trailers has spoiled the camaraderie of road transport. I could rope and sheet a load when I was 12 or 13, before that I couldn’t manage to throw a rope over a high load without a ladder.The firm where I learned my trade had just taken on a woman driver and they sent me with her for most of the school holidays, she would buy my breakfast and I would help her to sheet up. She didn’t need help, but it made me feel important.
But from what I remember, it didn’t matter where you went, as soon as you got your ropes off, in rain or shine, another driver from another company would be grabbing a corner and pulling off the sheet with you. they would then help you wrap it up or they would do one while you did the other. Fork lift drivers or drivers would help you chuck the sheet on top of the load or on the trailer and even do the opposite hooks when you were roping up.
Unfortunately now, drivers are in such a rush, and so anti social they would not ■■■■ on you if you were on fire. That is the reason there are no proper transport cafe’s open, it is the reason why a lorry park is full of drivers with their curtains closed watching soaps. Health and Safety have spoiled the industry too by banning drivers from climbing onto the load or in many cases from even being involved in the loading process, yet when it all goes wrong, the driver gets the blame.
As previously mentioned on these forums I was born with a fairly serious disability which I coped with until now, but if I could do this job it wasn’t so difficult. One of my first proper jobs was working for a paper company and we ran all the baled paper into Desborough or Selby. This was intimidating at first when I saw how quick these lads had the sheets off, tipped and into the office for paperwork. But they didn’t leave me they helped me, they showed me their tips and tricks and within a month I was showing the new lads the ropes literally.
It was satisfying to sheet a load up and you tried to make it look better than the previous one. I used to be ashamed picking Dutch Ferry flat trailers up out of Hull docks as they used sliced pieces of inner tube as sheet ties and ratchet straps or knotted straps if anything to hold the load on. I have re-sheeted many a Dutch load on the dock before being seen on the road with it. The company I worked for had no issue with rope and you could pick up 2 or 3 new coils a week from the agents office without penalty.
God That’s Better. I feel calm again
I don’t know how old you are? but my memories are similar.
But my Grandad probably said that about our generation.
Wheel Nut:
To me the loss of ropes and sheets and flat trailers has spoiled the camaraderie of road transport.
But a tilt or a curtainsider is’nt really that different to using a flat with the exception of sheeting.It’s probably because so many drivers have been taught to look on a curtainsider as something a lot different to a flat which has led to the H and S paranioa concerning load security issues.But I certainly can’t remember much cameraderie when using tilt or flat trailers during the mid 1980’s although admittedly sheeting was never my favourite or strong point.But a tilt was never an easy option though for those of us who preferred using them to flats.
Wheel Nut, it seems we’ve travelled very similar paths, as I mentioned previously I did trailers from the dock too, what a disgrace they were, nearly every one needed work before I would take it up the road, normal procedure was to get out Stan & cut off the bundle of knots the Belgians/French had put on, boy scouts they are not, then sort out the sheets, sometimes the back one had gone on last FFS, then rope it properly & get up the road, I was taught as a kid by my Dad, once I was big enough to put enough strength in a dolly we did a side of the trailer each, Dad taught me that there is no such thing as a quick rope & sheet, you do each load as though you’re taking it to John O’Groats, only a beginner ever has to stop & re tighten loose ropes/flapping sheets etc etc, ok sometimes on a load that settles you may have to tighten things up a bit, but that’s the only time, at first it took me hours to sheet up, after a month or so I could do a load of bottles (four mains & a fly sheet) in under an hour & not even break out in a sweat or get covered in dirt. Also like you I rode with a driver before I had my class one, I could rope & sheet, he couldn’t, we had an agreement whereby I did all the work if he let me drive the lorry, he must’ve thought he’d won the pools, sitting in the passenger seat all day still, at the time I would’ve paid him too if he’d asked me
Carryfast, up until now I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt, but now I’m convinced you really are as silly as a box of frogs, a tilt over a flat, you’re off your nut mate, a tilt is an evil thing, rolling a sheet over a load or pulling it off again is a million times easier than trying to take a tilt apart or put it back together, especially if it was an unaccompanied one that had had the ■■■■ knocked out of it I did a lot of continental with tilts & they were fine on groupage work where you backed up to a loading dock & it all went in the back & a necessity for Carnet TIR work, but for through the roof loads I would’ve swapped for a flat in a heartbeat, I hate tilts with a passion
newmercman:
Carryfast, up until now I’ve given you the benefit of the doubt, but now I’m convinced you really are as silly as a box of frogs, a tilt over a flat, you’re off your nut mate, a tilt is an evil thing, rolling a sheet over a load or pulling it off again is a million times easier than trying to take a tilt apart or put it back together, especially if it was an unaccompanied one that had had the [zb] knocked out of it
But there’s a method to my madness The reason that I’ve got the exact opposite view is just down to the types of work which I was using the tilt and flat for.It was the same trailer but used for different jobs.It’s just that when I used it as the Tilt it was mainly for side loading jobs in which it was a bit like a curtainsider would be used and for the craned stuff like paper reels it was stripped it down in the yard and used as a flat using the cover as the sheet 
.So it’s probably that what I’m actually saying is I preferred the type of work where I could use the tilt for most loads in which case it was just drop the sides and out with the slats and pull the cover over the top with some ropes and on went the pallets etc just like a curtain sider then put the sides up,tie the load down,put the slats back,pull the cover back over it and away job done .But using the thing as a flat with the tilt cover as a sheet on other stuff which needed craning on I hated with a passion but that’s the way the guvnor wanted it done but maybe it was really the best of all worlds looking back and understanding just what stripping the thing and rebuilding it each time for craned on/off loads would have been like.But knowing my sheeting abilities and preferences maybe I’m mad enough to have even put up with doing that each time rather than sheet the few craned on loads I had to do
Carryfast you’ve got a reprieve then I’ve used a tilt cover as a sheet, once, like you on a stripped down tilt/flat, it shouldn’t have been stripped down but it was a recovery job, the original driver had ‘hit black ice’ in a tunnel & played a lorry drivers version of pinball, reports that he was a ■■■■■■ as a ■■■■ when he left the resturaunt were just vicious rumours, although the black ice story was a bit far fetched as it was July Anyway he got sacked & muggins here went out to get the load delivered, the trailer was mangled, but it was full of aluminium ingots, so I had to cover them to keep the thievin eyeties at bay, a two minute job with a sheet, not so with a tilt cover & the ■■■■■■■ was blowing around like a sail 5 mins down the road, like I said, once & once only, if you had to do that on a regular basis, well I take my hat off to you
newmercman:
Carryfast you’ve got a reprieve then
Maybe it was the St Bernard tunnel and it was a zb cold Summer that year to give him the benefit of the doubt But that way of using the tilt as a flat as well was just one of the drawbacks of doing local/medium distance general haulage with something designed for long distance work and a guvnor who liked to get his money’s worth from his wagons and drivers. Luckily for me I did’nt stay around there for long and then it was all box trailers and demounts for me after that on trunking work.But all that time I was doing uk night trunking with boxes I still had the idea that long distance continental work with a tilt would be ok if you’re only loading and tipping twice a week or so each time at each end of the run and not every run would be a craned on/off job and generations of continentals who grew up with them in the same way as many brits grew up with flats can’t all have been wrong
Renaultman. I am 52 next and believe that Carryfast & Newmercman are of similar age, certainly the three of us have similar recollections and memories of the good times. I am sure we forget the bad days when it is blowing a gale on Hartlepool docks and trying to sheet a load of dried aluminium powder or loading bagged talcum powder in Amsterdam for Mike Taylor.
It was certainly easier to load the talc on a flat with good sheets then it was in a tilt as the bags just slid about and you couldn’t strap them without bursting them. I have stripped a fair few tilts and had a fair few mishaps, like the time my sheet blew off in Pireaus and the only way to put it back was to pay a Greek crane driver some Ouzo money. I took a large satellite dish to Morocco on a stripped down step frame tilt and had to rebuild it myself in Tangiers port to load Apples from the Camargue region. Arles I think. A tilt cover weighs a tonne, literally 
Early tilts did have rope hooks and lashing rings, however if you were running with a GV60, straps became the norm as they would go under the side doors without bulging and defeating the object of TIR. After all you couldn’t jump in the back to check your straps at every stop
Rose tinted glasses this morning, but to see the end of ropes and sheets for suitable jobs is a step too far. Tilts had their place in History, Euroliners have replaced them, for me flat trailers still have a place and are very suitable for carrying the type of loads this thread began with.
I shall be sad to see it go, but I still prefer tankers