interesting this i took my test in wd passed 1st time ,it was very long compared too artics when i parked up next too them also coupling uncoupling was quite tricky ,as some of readers are experienced here please enlighten me more on your reasons ,albeit i am aving a little play next week in artic and have stowed them away before in my old company MAN XXL AUTOS didnt find them as tricky as wdrag too get intoo tight spots etc ,just my observation but nether the less a intreting topic for beginners as my self and many more too follow
The 5/6 foot of overhang is one major difference, you could quite easily take out a car if you aren’t paying attention, or if you aren’t used to it happening (W&D dont have overhang). They bend in different places, so manouvering them is a sightly different.
(W&D dont have overhang).
Maybe not always as much as an artic - but overhang is normal on W+D.
enlighten me more on your reasons
The normal argument is that longer trailers are easier to reverse than shorter ones. Given that artic trailers are normally longer than drawbar trailers, it would follow that an artic is easier to reverse than w+d. The fact is that the longer the trailer the slower it bends. This gives the impression of control. It is easier to loose control of a drawbar when reversing and tie it almost in a knot - - but it is possible to correct it right up to the last minute. The artic trailer will bend more slowly making it less likely to loose control - - but if it does tie itself up there’s no way of correcting it without major shunts (not a problem on test as long as it hasn’t bent too hard to start with).
The comments made about how much more difficult it is to reverse a w+d often come from well meaning drivers with little or no experience of reversing w+d. The first time I reversed one I tied it in a knot to be proud of!! That was after many years of reversing artics. So someone with little or no experience would argue hard against a w+d.
As far as driving forwards is concerned, there is no question that an artic handles totally differently to w+d. It is well known that I argue that people should learn and pass their test on w+d (that being the easier, more economic solution) but then MUST have training on an artic before being let loose. That training can be easily completed in half a day and is worth it’s weight in gold.
Interesting that you rarely hear of artic drivers struggling with a w+d and yet the coupling mechanism is quite different. But this is one of the arguments that is used against using w+d for training. So if an artic driver can cope with w+d, then surely a w+d driver should be able to learn, very quickly, the coupling on an artic.
Apologies for disjointed discussion - it’s been a long hard day!! 
nice info peter , i love topics like this as there are so many differences of opinion and also great learning curve for us new c+e drivers
Just noticed you’re from Chelmsford as well. Welcome to the Forum 
Peter Smythe:
(W&D dont have overhang).
Maybe not always as much as an artic - but overhang is normal on W+D.
enlighten me more on your reasons
The normal argument is that longer trailers are easier to reverse than shorter ones. Given that artic trailers are normally longer than drawbar trailers, it would follow that an artic is easier to reverse than w+d. The fact is that the longer the trailer the slower it bends. This gives the impression of control. It is easier to loose control of a drawbar when reversing and tie it almost in a knot - - but it is possible to correct it right up to the last minute. The artic trailer will bend more slowly making it less likely to loose control - - but if it does tie itself up there’s no way of correcting it without major shunts (not a problem on test as long as it hasn’t bent too hard to start with).
The comments made about how much more difficult it is to reverse a w+d often come from well meaning drivers with little or no experience of reversing w+d. The first time I reversed one I tied it in a knot to be proud of!! That was after many years of reversing artics. So someone with little or no experience would argue hard against a w+d.
As far as driving forwards is concerned, there is no question that an artic handles totally differently to w+d. It is well known that I argue that people should learn and pass their test on w+d (that being the easier, more economic solution) but then MUST have training on an artic before being let loose. That training can be easily completed in half a day and is worth it’s weight in gold.
Interesting that you rarely hear of artic drivers struggling with a w+d and yet the coupling mechanism is quite different. But this is one of the arguments that is used against using w+d for training. So if an artic driver can cope with w+d, then surely a w+d driver should be able to learn, very quickly, the coupling on an artic.
Apologies for disjointed discussion - it’s been a long hard day!!
The first time i reversed an Artic i made a right pigs ear of it, i could not do it to save my life, yet i found the W&D quite simple to pick up. Then again, it might have helped if i was taught how to actually reverse, and not just how to pass your test.
I also remember my first time in an artic ater passing in a W&D, the first time i looked in my mirror and seeing the trailer sticking out i absolutley bricked myself
that made me laugh the trailer bit yes im from chelmsford 1st ave WELL round the back back it sounds good !!! currently working at casa julia braintree class 2 drayman b4 that over at billericay tj hammonds for 5 years what about yaself please dont tell me you at marriages mill !!!
Hah no, i’m on Turners, running out of Hatfield Peveral on the milk tankers.
I’m over in Springfield myself.
I love this one, we train in an artic 16.5mtr tri axle trailer, only because there are more artics in use in the UK.
Should you train on an artic or wagon & drag, it dosn’t matter, one is not easier than the other to learn in, they are different though.
The only advantage a wag &drag may have is you may be driving the same truck you did your cat C in, but then you may feel having the experiance driving something different is better.
Guess what I am saying is the choice is yours and you have the same amount of work to pass in either.
You are going to have to drive both when you have passed.
My instructor managed to find a rigid and artic with exactly the same controls/cab. The only difference I could tell was the walnut trim in the artic, and the larger quantity of engine 
Should you train on an artic or wagon & drag, it dosn’t matter, one is not easier than the other to learn in, they are different though.
Big surprise!! We’ll have to agree to differ on that one!!
C-Kay:
The first time i reversed an Artic i made a right pigs ear of it, i could not do it to save my life, yet i found the W&D quite simple to pick up. Then again, it might have helped if i was taught how to actually reverse, and not just how to pass your test.I also remember my first time in an artic ater passing in a W&D, the first time i looked in my mirror and seeing the trailer sticking out i absolutley bricked myself
Well I thought you learnt how to reverse by practice - do some people think we instructors have a ‘secret’ that we keep to ourselves!
When I teach someone to reverse it is only giving pointers as to where the vehicle should be on the reversing area. I think all trainees know how to do it, but maybe don’t get enough time to practice. I can talk anyone into a perfect reverse every time, saying ‘left hand down. right hand down’ etc., but it is the trainee who has to do it for themselves.
Smart Mart:
saying ‘left hand down. right hand down’ etc
I never did that in all the time I was teaching the reverse and I suspect very few other instructors do that either.
Smart Mart:
C-Kay:
The first time i reversed an Artic i made a right pigs ear of it, i could not do it to save my life, yet i found the W&D quite simple to pick up. Then again, it might have helped if i was taught how to actually reverse, and not just how to pass your test.I also remember my first time in an artic ater passing in a W&D, the first time i looked in my mirror and seeing the trailer sticking out i absolutley bricked myself
Well I thought you learnt how to reverse by practice - do some people think we instructors have a ‘secret’ that we keep to ourselves!
When I teach someone to reverse it is only giving pointers as to where the vehicle should be on the reversing area. I think all trainees know how to do it, but maybe don’t get enough time to practice. I can talk anyone into a perfect reverse every time, saying ‘left hand down. right hand down’ etc., but it is the trainee who has to do it for themselves.
It’s all very well being shown how to reverse for the test, it gives you no insight into the real world though. That’s what i meant.
C-Kay:
It’s all very well being shown how to reverse for the test, it gives you no insight into the real world though.
Very true and that can only be done post test but who wants to pay for it when the have just forked out a bout a grand on a CE course and test 
I’m quite sure many LGV schools would like to give that training if the trainee was willing to pay for it 
Surely it should come under ‘driver training’ though, and should not be any extra expense?
Not that i’m arsed, what i was shown got me through the test, and i’ve finally manged to pick it up, but it was something that bugged me when i got my first/current job.
Edit. I take back what i said, i blame the test for being the way it is, not the training. The trainers do their job and get you through, i think the reversing on the test itself needs revising and maybe changed
couldnt agree more ,i have not driven class 1 since passing and the only thing that plays on my mind if i get an offer is the matter of REVERSING weird isnt it obviously we got it or we would not of passed but when im out im always looking and thinking bloody hell how would i approach that etc anyway we may be drifting off the initial heading but im going too put that too bed by 2pm next saturday after ive had 4 hours in an artic . ive asked the instructor too treat as a non passer and put me right on everything if im wrong , then i will report my findings here
REVERSE THE GREAT SATAN 
C-Kay:
Surely it should come under ‘driver training’ though, and should not be any extra expense
If you can find a way of using the driving school artic and instructor time for free then please let the driving schools in on it
Everything takes time and time spent training and the use of equipment takes money for which the trainee must inevitably pay for.
C-Kay:
Edit. I take back what i said, i blame the test for being the way it is, not the training. The trainers do their job and get you through, i think the reversing on the test itself needs revising and maybe changed
If the reverse test was harder and made more realistic in some way then again, that wil take more time to train for and end up being more expensive.
There has to be a point where the amount of training and the cost need to be balanced
ROG:
C-Kay:
C-Kay:
Edit. I take back what i said, i blame the test for being the way it is, not the training. The trainers do their job and get you through, i think the reversing on the test itself needs revising and maybe changedIf the reverse test was harder and made more realistic in some way then again, that wil take more time to train for and end up being more expensive.
There has to be a point where the amount of training and the cost need to be balanced
But if they made the reverse more real life rather than the S shaped reverse as present I think it would help…
I’m not saying it should be the hardest, tightest reverse in the world, but a reverse in on your nearside, and one on your offside would surely give a lot more than the reverse that is currently in use? or maybe making the space you get to perfrom the manouvre should be less, or something along those lines. As it is, i just dont feel it teaches you enough.
Maybe i was just crap at reversing, but i feel the training/test reverse didnt set me up for the world outside of the test centre. After all, i paid to be taught how to drive, that should include backwards as well as forwards.