C-Kay:
After all, i paid to be taught how to drive,
I thought you paid to get the licence as cheaply as possible 
If wanting to be taught how to drive then that might take a lot, lot longer because to really get a new skill it takes practice, lots of it, and that practice will be expensive if paying for it.
As I said before -
ROG:
There has to be a point where the amount of training and the cost need to be balanced
i paid to be taught how to drive, that should include backwards as well as forwards
point taken but how much more would you have willing to pay? Most trainees consider they’re spending more than enough as it is!! I would always be willing to do more driving/reversing/whatever but it would have to have some sort of financial return. It’s what I do for a living - - would you work 3 or 4 hours for nothing (not to mention supply a vehicle, premises, fuel etc etc)? No reasonable trainer wants to rob you but don’t deny us our living - - please! As it is I quite often give extra training time where I feel it’s going to make the difference to the test outcome. And I do that for free. Got to draw the line somewhere! 
I’m sure I represent the views of other trainers on here as well
Hmmm, i really have managed to totally go away from what i meant originally
Right, the reverse on the test, as it stands, isn’t up to scratch in my opinion, it teaches you practically nothing. I think there should be more to it than reversing back, as DAF says, in an ‘S’.
Yes, it might take an extra days training, and cost a bit more, but it should be included in the training up to the test, not as an after thought. That’s what i was originally getting at
ROG:
C-Kay:
After all, i paid to be taught how to drive,I thought you paid to get the licence as cheaply as possible
If i wanted it as cheaply as possible, i’d have gone with Qualitas and their ‘free’ artic deal 
C-Kay:
Hmmm, i really have managed to totally go away from what i meant originallyRight, the reverse on the test, as it stands, isn’t up to scratch in my opinion, it teaches you practically nothing. I think there should be more to it than reversing back, as DAF says, in an ‘S’.
Yes, it might take an extra days training, and cost a bit more, but it should be included in the training up to the test, not as an after thought. That’s what i was originally getting at
What would you suggest that would be up to scratch?
The reversing exercise at present trains for backing onto a bay between ‘vehicles’ (marked by cones), which is what is often required when delivering, it teaches you all round observation, and it gives an insight into blind side reverse (round the ‘b’ pole in a tight space), and avoiding other vehicles (not crossing the yellow line, which could be a wall or another vehicle), whilst teaching the size and accurate positioning of the vehicle. - What more could be tested?
Making the 20 acres of space a little less for starters, maybe doing the ‘S’ the other way around as well, so you blindside into the ‘bay’ as well as nearside.
Also a reverse where you start horizontal to the bay like you do in so many places. Positioning is a huge part of reversing, and one thing i found myself constantly cocking up when i got my job. i personally feel that if you were given a certain amount of space, and you were asked to drive up and position yourself, without cones telling you where to put your front end it would add so much more depth and insight. Obviously you should be allowed more than 2 shunts, 4 or 5 maybe.
Like i said before, i’m not saying stick a load of cars in the test centre for you to reverse round and make the bay 2 inches wider than your trailer width, just give the newbies some sort of chance when they go out on their own for the first time.
maybe this will explain what i’m gettting at. This is the diary from my C&E test…
C-Kay:
Right, i actually feel human now, so here’s the story of my day yesterday.I met up with my instructor at 9.30 am, and we headed off up to Ipswich to meet another pupil, who was in for his class 2 at 12pm. I did my test in the drag and wag for this reason, which i was fine with because i was comfortable with both that and the artic, so it made no difference to me. I drove to Ipswich test centre and dropped the trailer in there, and we let the other pupil have a run round before his test. 12pm came and off he went, so i had some waitng about. He passed by the way
So, we get to 2pm, and it’s time for me to roll. I meet the examiner, who turns out to be the Senior Examiner. He asks me how i would check the vehicle for Roadworthiness, and how to change a tacho. I answered those in a well explained manner, and it was time to do my reverse.
I pull up to the cones and begin, remembering everything i had been taught - hard right lock until the trailer leaves you main left mirror, then hard left lock until the prime mover is parallel to the yellow line, then starighten the wheels until again the back of the trailer leaves the left mirror, then get the unit straight with the trailer and move back slowly, put a slight bow on it and get it into the bay
Note the bald writing, which was my reverse. I was taught how to reverse to pass my test in every little detail. Nothing else. I just didn’t think that was enough.
C-Kay:
Making the 20 acres of space a little less for starters, maybe doing the ‘S’ the other way around as well, so you blindside into the ‘bay’ as well as nearside.Also a reverse where you start horizontal to the bay like you do in so many places. Positioning is a huge part of reversing, and one thing i found myself constantly cocking up when i got my job. i personally feel that if you were given a certain amount of space, and you were asked to drive up and position yourself, without cones telling you where to put your front end it would add so much more depth and insight. Obviously you should be allowed more than 2 shunts, 4 or 5 maybe.
Like i said before, i’m not saying stick a load of cars in the test centre for you to reverse round and make the bay 2 inches wider than your trailer width, just give the newbies some sort of chance when they go out on their own for the first time.
Crikey - the pass rates are bad enough now! I can’t imagine anyone ever getting out onto the road if they had to do all that.
Be great for training schools - all that extra income - more money for us instructors as well. Not everyone would be able to afford the training as was said earlier.
I remember my car driving test, and the examiner said to me when he handed me my pink slip, ‘that doesn’t turn you into Sterling Moss, now go and learn to drive’, that applies just as much to the LGV test. Everyone who passes their tests have been checked to see they are safe to themselves and others - it takes a long time before you feel experienced - thats why a lot of employers ask for 2 years.
MrPanther:
Reverse still on and off; I wasn’t performing two the same; one would be brilliant and the other would be less so, but every time I cocked up, I rescued it, (though Rod’s advice certainly helped!) which was the main thing I suppose.
MrPanther:
I answered his questions and he talked me through the reverse and there I was. I was on test. AARRGGHH!
Ballsed it up slightly but I recovered.
I:
Knowing how to recover is the key to reversing an artic.
I do believe that this shows that the ‘basics’ are taught and for a DSA test that is all that is required.
Those ‘basics’ are now the ‘building blocks’ for gaining further experience in more difficult situations.
Knowing how to recover is the key to reversing an artic.
I agree it’s a major part, but my own opinion is that not enough is covered during training/on the test. I feel it should have a little more focus.
The whole test is really a basic standard,
One of the problems is the lenght of the courses and so much needs to be covered in such a short time most rigid courses are 5 days then the artic course is 5-7 … They used to be double this.
And if they are honest the problem a lot of the time is the attitude of many learners who come on courses who have only driven a car think they can drive … YES they can drive a car a truck is a whole new ball game .
If everyone looked back to when they first learnt to drive a truck a good 90% if truthfull will say i never thought that it would be so complex and hard .
Also if honest those have taught over many years will agree the actual test has got a lot easier so why is the national pass rate so low ■■?
One of the reasons is the standard of the trainee is far lower than it was 10 years ago.
Now i know many instructors will agree with these comments but will they dare agree with it on this site ?
26 years an Lgv Trainer:
One of the reasons is the standard of the trainee is far lower than it was 10 years ago.Now i know many instructors will agree with these comments but will they dare agree with it on this site ?
Only started LGV instructing in 2005 but I have been teaching the advanced for mainly car drivers over the past 11 years and in that time I can say that the car driving standard is lower now than it was when I started observing.
This seems to be down to a change in the attitude of society as a whole with a more 'ME, ‘ME’, ‘ME’ outlook on life which then transfers itself to driving.
That piece of tarmac in front must not be allowed to get too big or someone else might use it seems to be in the foremost of many drivers.
OR
My driving is great, it’s all the others at fault is another one
OR
Speed cameras are wrong because I cannot be expected to multitask when driving unless I am on my mobile phone but I am concentrating on what I need to
With thoughts like these going through the minds of many drivers is it any wonder that standards have dropped.
