The Consequences

Recently we have had a lot of debate on here about speed limits and some of the members saying the routinely ignore the 40 mph restriction because they think it is safe to do so and drive on the limiter along roads with 40 mph limits for trucks etc. Is it really worth it just to get an extra couple of pallets delivered or to spend more time sitting waiting when you get top the delivery when you take account of the news report below?

A SPEEDING lorry driver who lost control of his truck and killed three people was banned from driving for just six months yesterday.

Steven Williams, 35, ploughed into a Toyota Starlet that had stopped to turn right before swerving across the road and hitting a Honda Accord.

Grain firm worker Ivan Jeffrey, 60, his wife Pamela, 65, and her mother 85-year-old Constance Rome died in the crash.

The family from Downham Market, Norfolk, had been on a day trip to the Suffolk coast in Mr Jeffrey’s Honda.

Williams, from Lowestoft, Suffolk, had been driving at 54mph on a country road which had a 40mph limit for lorries. He only suffered bruising to his leg.

Simon Wilson, the East Anglia regional controller of road safety charity Roadpeace, branded Williams’s sentence “ludicrous.”

He said: “This man has got a six-month driving ban - but the effects of his actions will be remembered by the friends and family of the victims for the rest of their lives.”

Ipswich crown court was told that just three months after the tragedy on July 10 last year, Williams was caught speeding again and given three penalty points for being clocked at 56mph in a 40mph zone.

At an earlier hearing, Williams admitted careless driving. A jury cleared him of causing death by dangerous driving.

The married dad of two told the court: “I remember holding the steering wheel, praying the lorry would stop but it didn’t.”

He claimed his view could have been affected by bright sunshine on the A144 at Ilketshall St Lawrence near Halesworth, Suffolk. Prosecutor Rupert Overbury said Williams would have been able to stop in time if he had been driving his articulated grain lorry within the 40mph limit.

Williams said he thought of the accident “every day and every night” and was taking sleeping tablets and anti-depressants.

Judge Peter Thompson told him: “The consequences of your driving were immensely serious. No penalty could satisfy the feelings of the family of the victims.”

But he said he could only sentence him on the lesser charge of careless driving, which carries the six-month ban. He was also fined £1,000 with £200 costs.

Source Daily Mirror

In my opinion the punishment for this event is a joke, especially given the fact that three months after the tragedy, and before the case had come to court, he was caught doing 56 mph in a 40 zone again. He claimed he thought of the accident “every day and every night” and was depressed. It didn’t effect him badly enough to slow him down though. This guy should never get his licence back.

According to the report if he had been doing 40 he would have been able to stop in time so those of you who ignore the 40 limit and drive at 50 or more can you really say something like this won’t happen to you and in the light of tragedies like this can you really justify exceeding the limit to that extent?

A point well made Neil.

It’s (zb) like him that tar the rest of us.

He obviously has no concience as it didn’t change his attitude in any way shape or form even after he had killed 3 people ,I’m just glad it wasn’t a mini bus full of cub scouts or brownies or something similar as all truck drivers would have the stigma of child killers.

At least until the tabloid readers have a new outrage to fix their minds ( :question: :question: :open_mouth: ) on
edited for language mrs mix

First things first, I feel the sentence this driver recieved was wrong, some jail time would have been more appropriate, and what happened was horrendous and in no way do I think that what he did was anything other than sheer lunacy.

but…

I live less than 5 miles from where that accident happened and have travelled that road on a daily basis for a couple of years. The truck concerned hit the rear of one car on the offside(this car was waiting and indicating to turn right), kicking that car into the n/s verge, his tractor unit then jack-knived(knifed?) and the trailer pushed him into the opposite side of the road when he hit the car in which the occupants died which was travelling in the opposite direction.
He was definitley driving too fast for that road, yet it is an “A” road.
The other speeding offence for which he recieved a ticket wasn’t for doing 56 in a 40, it was for doing 56 when the limit for trucks was 40, in this case the A12.(There is a very distinct difference here as I’m sure most drivers would agree)
Now a lot of us feel the 40 rule on “A” roads needs to be changed, but it goes to show that “A” road quality can vary enormously, some are capable of accepting a higher limit and some aren’t.
Also media reporting and the succinct use of selective reporting can throw a whole new spin on the way we percieve someone is behaving.
Careless driving,IMHO definately, dangerous driving I dont know. The sentence he recieved wasn’t correct considering the consequences of the event, but I believe the verdict was right. He was definatly careless driving, but was it dangerous driving?..
As with all similar events the real tradgedy was the loss of three lives, and no sentence will bring them back.
The local police chief, when interviewed on TV, after the verdict was announced and the driver had recieved his sentence, said it was a real tradgedy, and the father of one of those that had died was also a truck driver and had sympathy with the truck driver involved in this event.
My sympathies go out to the families of those that died, but perhaps we should have a small amount of sympathy for the truck driver because of the conditions under which we all drive on todays roads.

neil no matter how horrific the story there are certain drivers that will continue to break the speed limit’s.but i agree with you that this idiot should lose his licence altogether.when are drivers of all types going to get it into their heads that speed does kill.the statistics are all there for us to see and we should not ignore them. :frowning: :frowning: just think b4 you put your foot down somechild could walk out in front of you.

I go down the A144 quite a bit, 54mph is way too fast IMO. There are some straightish bits, but as far as I remember they are in 40mph or 30mph limits. Other bits of the road are rather narrow and bendy…I find myself dropping right down to under 30 all the time on it.

K 2 K Whilst I agree with some of what you say the point you make about the 2nd offence of speeding being on the A12 is irrelevant as if it was on the “southern section” which is dual carriage way from Romford to Ipswich then for the speed limit to be reduced to 40 mph it would have been for roadworks (such as it is now at Kelvedon) which is Dangerous (for the workers on the carriageway especially)

If it was on the “northern section” then It is single carriageway for virtually it’s entire length and many would agree it’s not layed out in the best of ways either hence the many campaigns to upgrade it to dualing (which I agree with)

But either way he had just killed 3 people because he had been exceeding the 40 mph limit and to go out and break it again so blatantly shows he has no remorse for what he had done.Obviously thinking that his deliveries are more important than sombody’s life (I wonder what type of grain could be soooo important■■?)
He is scum as far as I’m concerned,How would you (a general you not specific to you K 2 K) feel if sombody killed a member of your family in this way only to find out a couple of months later he was caught speeding again.

This proves that he will never be safe to drive as if killing sombody doesn’t calm him down then I ■■■■ sure a piddling sentance like this wont.

Take his licence off him for life (mind you I suspect he would be the sort of person to drive without a licence anyway)

It’s a hard decision to make on cases like this. Was he being careless or dangerous? Don’t envy the judge having to call that. Damned if you do… etc.

My standpoint on the speed limit is that on major A roads, A1 North of Newcastle, A17 etc should have sections where the police allow 50mph limits and signpost them (clearly please Mr Plod :wink: ) accordingly. Kind of like the 50mph Accident reduction zones (eg Stannington and that one on the A1 around Doncaster) but in reverse.

I have to admit to being a speeder on long straight sections of road, especially when there is lots of traffic. But I refuse to go over 48mph. That’s my limit. On narrower bendy roads, it’s 40 all the way.

north surrey haulage:
But either way he had just killed 3 people because he had been exceeding the 40 mph limit and to go out and break it again so blatantly shows he has no remorse for what he had done.Obviously thinking that his deliveries are more important than sombody’s life (I wonder what type of grain could be soooo important■■?)

This is the thing that strikes me the most about this case. Within a matter of weeks after killing 3 people because of excessive speed he felt it was OK to exceed the limit by 16 mph again. This makes me think that when he gets his licence back in 6 months time, hopefully he at least won’t get his C+E entitlement back, he will still have no regard for the speed limits.

surely if he couldn’t see properly he should have slowed anyway, as we’re all taught to do so and a natural sense of self preservation tells us to?

never go any faster than the distance you can see to stop within.

If anyone causes death by bad driving they should at least be charged with manslaughter and get a fitting punushment :open_mouth:

Coffeeholic:

north surrey haulage:
But either way he had just killed 3 people because he had been exceeding the 40 mph limit and to go out and break it again so blatantly shows he has no remorse for what he had done.Obviously thinking that his deliveries are more important than sombody’s life (I wonder what type of grain could be soooo important■■?)

This is the thing that strikes me the most about this case. Within a matter of weeks after killing 3 people because of excessive speed he felt it was OK to exceed the limit by 16 mph again. This makes me think that when he gets his licence back in 6 months time, hopefully he at least won’t get his C+E entitlement back, he will still have no regard for the speed limits.

Well remembered, Coffee!! Hope others remember that although this guy will get his car licence back in 6 months, he will have to apply to the Traffic Commissioner for his HGV. Hopefully, the TC will come to the right decision! The guy doesn’t deserve to hold a HGV licence!

That is for sure Bear. I think any TC who gave this guy his licence back shouldn’t be a TC.

well guys…you have said it all…i agree wholeheartedly…and yes the sentence was too small to make a difference to idiots like him…in my mind it is a form of murder…someone has lost his/her life through no fault of their own and should be punished accordingly…there is now an offence of corporate manslaughter for bosses of railway companies whos equipment kills…and should be for a driver too regardless of what size it is…
have a nice day

Lostpup:
It’s a hard decision to make on cases like this. Was he being careless or dangerous? Don’t envy the judge having to call that. Damned if you do… etc.

My standpoint on the speed limit is that on major A roads, A1 North of Newcastle, A17 etc should have sections where the police allow 50mph limits and signpost them (clearly please Mr Plod :wink: ) accordingly. Kind of like the 50mph Accident reduction zones (eg Stannington and that one on the A1 around Doncaster) but in reverse.

I have to admit to being a speeder on long straight sections of road, especially when there is lots of traffic. But I refuse to go over 48mph. That’s my limit. On narrower bendy roads, it’s 40 all the way.

lostpup,there ain’t much point asking mr pc plod to up the limit on any road.as they have no say in the matter,this is set by the local councils.they dictate which road is 30,40 60mph the police only enforce it.it’s the same as certain roads that have weight restrictions,it’s the council who put these restaints on hgv’s.

i’ll give you an example adrian,as you stay in edinburgh.i was in an 11ton rigid doing multi drop,i had just done a delivery next to murrayfield.i came under the bridge at murrayfield and turned left,heading up the west approach road.now for the guys on here that don’t know edinburgh,this road is a straight road into the city center it has absolutely nothing on it,no schools,shops nothing.and its a 40mph,so i’m travelling along at 40 and coming towards me is the traffic cops.i noticed that they turned the blue light on and came after me,so i pulled through the traffic lights and pulled up on the left in a safe place.i jumped out the cab and met the police officer at the rear of the truck.he ask what weight my truck was and i said 11ton officer,he said your too heavy for that road driver.i was shocked :open_mouth: ,i said what is the weight then officer,he said i.5 ton.and i asked where is the sign that states this :question: he said on the pole,i and the officer took a walk across as i disagreed with him.as we got to this pole admittidly there was a sign but it was that small an artic driver whould not see it as i could not see it in my small truck.i said that is no use to man nor beast officer in which he agreed and would put this point to the council through his inspector.so i said why is double decker buses aloud along it when they are heavier than i am :question: he said driver i agree with you and other hgv drivers that some rules are crazy and that we as the police are trying to get the council to change things,i said what’s the council got to do with it :question: it’s them who make the rules we just inforce them.oh i have just learnt something new.in the end i got done 20 quid, but he did agree with alot of hgv drivers that he has spoken to in the years that he has been a traffic cop and he said that they have made some valid points,but we are fighting the council here and you know what they are like at the best of times.

i went back towards that road from the haymarket end and i noticed the sign is about half the size of a car windscreen now,so the council did listen :exclamation:
maybe if the sign was that size in the start then i could be 20 quid in pocket still :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: not to worry, even the best make mistakes :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

When compared with the Guy in this case, trucknetuk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=6132 wheres the justice.

its hard to disagree with you on this one niel…lol…he shouldnt be on the roads full stop…concience my arse

If you get paid by the hour the slower you go the more you get

north surrey haulage:
A point well made Neil.

It’s (zb) like him that tar the rest of us.

He obviously has no concience as it didn’t change his attitude in any way shape or form even after he had killed 3 people ,I’m just glad it wasn’t a mini bus full of cub scouts or brownies or something similar as all truck drivers would have the stigma of child killers.

At least until the tabloid readers have a new outrage to fix their minds ( :question: :question: :open_mouth: ) on
edited for language mrs mix

I’m in full agreement with you on that. Why don’t the minority of drivers just stop to think they are in control of anything up to a 44 tonne killing machine capable of wiping out several families. The thought of that on my conscience is way to much to bare. I for one am fed up with arrogant, ignorant drivers who constantly tail-gate especially on country roads. Maybe a new slogan should should be stuck on the back of all trucks ‘’ IF YOU CAN READ THIS AND I BRAKE SUDDENLY WILL YOUR BOSS MISS YOU IN THE MORNING’’ :imp:

‘’ IF YOU CAN READ THIS AND I BRAKE SUDDENLY WILL YOUR BOSS MISS YOU IN THE MORNING’’ :imp:

I really like that.

I wish I’d thought of it :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

Dafman:
If you get paid by the hour the slower you go the more you get

But you could go at the same speed as everyone else if that’s safe and spend more time on the bunk kipping later.

Not disagreeing with you, just throwing some light from another angle.

Cheers.