It’s me, on the blag again…yeah, yeah, I know, but where else would I go?
This time I’m looking at which is better, Union representation or in-house Driver Rep systems for negotiating pay and conditions. As well as general views (which, if you post them here, may well be pinched and published) I’m specifically looking for people who’ve been Shop Stewards and/or Driver Reps and tried to thrash out this stuff with their gaffers.
It’s not just whether you can, in fact, achieve anything in these positions, it’s how it effects your own working life taking them on - are your mates encouraging, or do they just accuse you of being in the TM’s pocket etc etc etc?
If you’re up for it, I’ll need to do a quick phone interview, so shout me by PM on here and we’ll sort something. Names and company names can be changed if you like, I want the full truth here, no sanitisation.
Acas. In my experience, reps tend to be bought off by management. Whether it’s easy work, the best kit or most commonly loads of overtime and nights out.
I’ve been a proud trade unionists for nearly 30 years many of those years as a shop steward including senior shop steward
I worked at Stirlands of Nottingham and we had some of the best terms and conditions in the East Midlands if not the country a lot of firms would use us as a benchmark for wage negotiations
Back in the day of ERF’s - MANs with column change ( even before the Twin splitter) etc.
Those were the days when the Transport & General Workers Union tried to outlaw the sleeper cab & the Big Union firms ran antiques (with wooden frame cabs, fibre glass panels and a perch attached to the rear bulkhead to give the driver something to sit on ( required a a liberal doses of haemorrhoid cream or suppositories)
One unionised firm In St Helens had hundreds of elderly red 8 wheeler Atkis with Gardner 150s creeping back up the M1 from the London area every afternoon with reels of paper, the drivers needing to wear overalls, cloth cap etc. even worse was the nationalised BRS … Romantic at a vintage rally but not good for your health on a daily basis.
Non Union firms had Volvo, Scania, Merc, MAN etc… with suspension seats, good power to weight ratio & a comfy bed to sleep in.
Most non union firms had ghost union members so that if you had a run to the docks or a coal mine in Yorkshire you were issued with a union card & a name for the day
Owner Drivers would pay one weeks subs for a card that lasted a year - Do London one year, Liverpool the next -
If you think RDCs are bad Yorkshire coal mines were a 4***g nighmare for sheer “Sorry Drive Union Rules we can’t help you” so 20 ton handball to the back of the trailer - then “Sorry Drive Union Rules you can’t use the showers” and don’t even mention the ****ing Dockers.
So when Maggie took on the Unions it was the drivers queuing up to help her & get their revenge for all the sh*te they had to endure from the unions.
Unions like communism are a great philosophy that I support 100% - unfortunately spoiled by the same types that join the Tory party as politicians.
Millionaire Union leaders like Scargill feathered their own nests at the expense of their members & it will take decades to rebuild a properly functioning Union now that legislation has more or less killed the aspiration
I used to be the drivers rep ( non Union) for the best part of 2000 drivers & had quarterly meetings with the MD & apart from the wingers ( which there always is ) people didn’t really moan about that much
The effectiveness of the union (or driver’s rep) depends to a large extent on the choice of shop steward, but it doesn’t end there, the steward doesn’t wear his/her pants on the outside, if they don’t get the backing of the majority of the members prepared to do their bit then the battle is already lost, many of the biggest wingers can’t even be bothered to attend the infrequent meetings let alone be relied upon to support any possible actions.
I’ve only worked at one place where the stewards were plainly feathering their own nests, they stayed in place because they had a band of merry men around them who kept them in place, and in decreasing ripples fed the right work by a colluding office/management to keep that particular ship afloat to the detriment of the majority, many of who could not see what the score was, i was very glad to get out of there.
Ironically that cartel is now splashed to the four winds and the company now one of the better payers in their field, its the skills shortage which has caused this because they could not retain nor recruit anyone worth a light…i can still see the boss nearly 30 years ago standing up and telling all of us that he could get drivers ten a penny…he’s still there, he’s eaten those words a few times…
One thing that annoys is the non union members who snipe and criticise from the sidelines, yet have no trouble trousering the benefits the union members have gained for them over time which they otherwise wouldn’t have…i have no problem with people not being union members if that is their wish but don’t criticise when you are netting good packages worth around 1/2 or more (shorter hours and better salaries) than non unionised company drivers are getting without investing your £13 a month for the benefits and still gobbing off about how bad things are.
Union greasy pole climbers, demi gods and their political ambitions i have no interest in, they are not the union, the stewards and the members who elect and support them and turn up at meetings on a local basis are the union.
Where the union is streets ahead of the standard drivers rep is that the stewards have massive resources behind them they can call on, which the driver’s rep won’t have, not usually needed but there when it is.
I’ve been doing this job a long time now, overall the best terms and conditions have been at properly unionised companies, and can be by a large margin but overlaps do occur to be fair, some drivers don’t need unions because they work for people and companies who appreciate them.
Juddian:
I’ve been in the T&G, now Unite, for many years.
The effectiveness of the union (or driver’s rep) depends to a large extent on the choice of shop steward, but it doesn’t end there, the steward doesn’t wear his/her pants on the outside, if they don’t get the backing of the majority of the members prepared to do their bit then the battle is already lost, many of the biggest wingers can’t even be bothered to attend the infrequent meetings let alone be relied upon to support any possible actions.
I’ve only worked at one place where the stewards were plainly feathering their own nests, they stayed in place because they had a band of merry men around them who kept them in place, and in decreasing ripples fed the right work by a colluding office/management to keep that particular ship afloat to the detriment of the majority, many of who could not see what the score was, i was very glad to get out of there.
Ironically that cartel is now splashed to the four winds and the company now one of the better payers in their field, its the skills shortage which has caused this because they could not retain nor recruit anyone worth a light…i can still see the boss nearly 30 years ago standing up and telling all of us that he could get drivers ten a penny…he’s still there, he’s eaten those words a few times…
One thing that annoys is the non union members who snipe and criticise from the sidelines, yet have no trouble trousering the benefits the union members have gained for them over time which they otherwise wouldn’t have…i have no problem with people not being union members if that is their wish but don’t criticise when you are netting good packages worth around 1/2 or more (shorter hours and better salaries) than non unionised company drivers are getting without investing your £13 a month for the benefits and still gobbing off about how bad things are.
Union greasy pole climbers, demi gods and their political ambitions i have no interest in, they are not the union, the stewards and the members who elect and support them and turn up at meetings on a local basis are the union.
Where the union is streets ahead of the standard drivers rep is that the stewards have massive resources behind them they can call on, which the driver’s rep won’t have, not usually needed but there when it is.
I’ve been doing this job a long time now, overall the best terms and conditions have been at properly unionised companies, and can be by a large margin but overlaps do occur to be fair, some drivers don’t need unions because they work for people and companies who appreciate them.
the unions were backing the remain side in this recent eu vote.
the unions didn’t care one fig for the devastation the high numbers of migrants have had and are having on wages and conditions for our own people
they made there stand in the eu vote and publicly backed the remain side
i will never vote labour or back a union ever in my life infact if anything i am more anit labour and anti union than i have ever been. since the eu vote
its the people themselves who got us out of the eu not the labour party nor a bloody union
so whjat use are you to anyone who works for a living except to take some of there hard earned cash out of there pay packet, and pretend your doing some sort of service or protecting a work force ?
In house representation is far more susceptible to management influence than a good trade union rep. Mainly because there are no checks and balances on such representatives, whereas deals negotiated through a TU will normally have to be approved by a higher level of rep before being put to membership.
However, a TU is only as effective as its members…
DonutUK:
In house representation is far more susceptible to management influence than a good trade union rep. Mainly because there are no checks and balances on such representatives, whereas deals negotiated through a TU will normally have to be approved by a higher level of rep before being put to membership.
However, a TU is only as effective as its members…
at stobrats you are as only STRONG AS YOUR WEAKEST LINK! Aka the drivers rep = chocolate FIREGUARDS.
Juddian:
I’ve been doing this job a long time now, overall the best terms and conditions have been at properly unionised companies, and can be by a large margin but overlaps do occur to be fair, some drivers don’t need unions because they work for people and companies who appreciate them.
Here here. Even the drivers who get appreciation at work and don’t need a union in their workplace, still need unions to stop their appreciative employers being undercut and put out of business by those who don’t (or wouldn’t) appreciate their drivers without the presence of a union!
desypete:
the unions were backing the remain side in this recent eu vote.
the unions didn’t care one fig for the devastation the high numbers of migrants have had and are having on wages and conditions for our own people
they made there stand in the eu vote and publicly backed the remain side
i will never vote labour or back a union ever in my life infact if anything i am more anit labour and anti union than i have ever been. since the eu vote
its the people themselves who got us out of the eu not the labour party nor a bloody union
so whjat use are you to anyone who works for a living except to take some of there hard earned cash out of there pay packet, and pretend your doing some sort of service or protecting a work force ?
your a waste of space in this country
If there’s one thing unions know, it’s that you don’t build solidarity in the workforce by dividing it! Not by dividing settled worker against migrant worker, domestic jobs against foreign jobs, nothing of that sort.
Even if the unions were against Brexit, they certainly aren’t against better pay and conditions, better job security, better training and apprenticeships, and so forth.
A lot of people also forget that a union’s power fundamentally derives from the willingness of the workforce to organise and take industrial action. There’s nothing a union can win for you, unless you are willing to go on strike for it.
I’ve seen supine reps in workplaces where the members are themselves supine and are happily managing the decline of their pay and conditions, but I’ve never seen supine reps where the members are militant, because that disconnect between the union bureaucracy and the members can always be resolved by wildcat industrial action or by replacing the union bureaucracy (including by the members joining or creating another union en masse).
The power of the union arises from the members’ willingness to take industrial action and so members who are sufficiently organised and motivated always command almost the full extent of their union’s power.
If unions don’t split the workforce, what happened during the last tanker drivers strikes? They sold all the new starters down the river, while securing ongoing wage rises for the workforce of the day, in exchange for an end to industrial action. So in short, that game will be ■■■■■■ within 20 years when the current drivers are retired. It’s the reason is never go into that game
OVLOV JAY:
If unions don’t split the workforce, what happened during the last tanker drivers strikes? They sold all the new starters down the river, while securing ongoing wage rises for the workforce of the day, in exchange for an end to industrial action. So in short, that game will be [zb] within 20 years when the current drivers are retired. It’s the reason is never go into that game
I don’t know the ins and outs of their agreements, but saving existing contracts might have been a better evil than long standing members having to give up their contracts too, half a loaf better than no bugger at all.
The same applies in all walks of life, things change and we either change with them or do the other thing…i don’t want a bloody arsetronic box but unless i buy me own lorry i’m stuck with the tat …few if any surviving final salary pensions left, lots of other things cut off from new starters, it’s progress apparently, not as i like it any more than you.
Car transporters were great contracts at one time, mainly because it was a virtually closed shop, some of the big operators got greedy with their vehicle disposals and sold off old vehicles complete with bodies instead of cutting the buggers up like they once did, that gave new companies the chance to get going on the cheap…i can’t be hypocritical because starting on them for such an operation with old tackle got me a start which i otherwise wouldn’t have had and led me into one of the proper jobs.
Ironically transporter money is now on the rise again after stagnating for about 10 years, but that is purely down to skills and temperament shortages they simply can’t get the right staff, Ford’s own still lead the pack but they are in a unique position and i hope they keep their top class contracts in the future, though seeing the number of subbies (who aint paying anything like) carrying Fords i wonder how long it can go on.
20 years hence buggered if i know where our industry will be, i have a feeling those of us retired or nearing retirement have seen the best days, not just the wages but the job in all its aspects.
Well the tanker drivers always did well, and there’s no way the t’s and c’s could have eroded to what new starters get now. There’s blokes going into it now on £35k doing the identical job to those on £50k. I’d be paying my subs through gritted teeth
