oldsid:
I see the government is even seeing sense now and limiting benefits for people how have more children than they can afford and who multiply without a responsible means of supporting a large family
What the government is ‘actually’ doing is continuing with the idea of low wage employment by way of a rigged labour market in which it imports goods,which ‘could’ be made here,from low wage economies,thereby exporting jobs,and it imports cheap labour for those jobs which we have.Therefore wages are being outrun by prices which is the real problem.
So we take your idea to it’s logical conclusion the only people having children will be the immigrant communities congratulations you’ve wiped out your own nation or at least put it’s future generations into a minority in their own country.
You had my attention till the shooting down in flames bit, you let emotion get in the way of reason
A lot of assuming there all I am against is the lack of forethought and irresponsibility of people who have children and dont consider the responsibilty of providing for them but expect handouts when they cant manage their finances
As we’ve been told no one can expect a job to last for more than a year let alone for life anymore.There is no way that the unions have the strength to defend living standards in the brave new Thatcherite world in which we invest all the money earn’t here in China (and Turkey) which they then use to put our own workers out of work at worst or in lower paid employment than would otherwise be the case at best.Therefore it’s obvious that your idea,of workers using so called foresight and responsibility,won’t work.Just as it didn’t for my Grandad when he struggled to raise a family of 5 plus one who died before the age of 5 because the money earn’t by the average British worker during the early 20 th century was worth about as much as living standards are heading for now with health care services to match.
However all of those children then contributed to the WW2 war effort either in our wartime factories and/or on the battle field and then at least one of them had to use the pittance earn’t in one of those wartime factories,at the age of 14,to support his widowed mum when her husband died before reaching retirement age,in a world without much in the way of social security benefits nor sufficient wages to have covered any decent life insurance policies.
As I’ve said in the current economic climate many British workers have the choice between taking your advice,which locically means that there is no economic case to have any children whatsoever,or make the type of choice which my grandad made.In which he (rightly) said zb the economics and just had a family like his fellow workers did during those depression years of the 1920’s.While if he hadn’t have made that (correct) choice I wouldn’t have been able to be here now shooting your argument down in flames.Just as his kids did in helping to defeat Hitler.
The only difference between now and then is that,as I’ve said,it’s not Hitler now.It’s more a case of not allowing the immigrant population to out populate our own because there’s no way that they will give a zb about following your advice in which case they eventually form the majority and what’s left of our own population becomes a foreign minority in it’s own country.
You had my attention till the shooting down in flames bit then you let emotion get in the way of reason
working tax credits?
what is this like to have?
i havent qualified for it 8 years now as i apparently earn to much?
my circumstances are
a wife (non working full time mother)
earnings nil
4 kids 11, 7, 3, 2 (to young to work)
earnings nil
me (hard working steering wheel attended)
earnings £34,000.00
Next door neighbour
wife and husband on dole
3 kids
earnings £40,000.00 (bole + tax credits etc) plus rent and council tax paid
where is the fairness?
(Answers on a post card please)
oldsid:
I see the government is even seeing sense now and limiting benefits for people how have more children than they can afford and who multiply without a responsible means of supporting a large family
What the government is ‘actually’ doing is continuing with the idea of low wage employment by way of a rigged labour market in which it imports goods,which ‘could’ be made here,from low wage economies,thereby exporting jobs,and it imports cheap labour for those jobs which we have.Therefore wages are being outrun by prices which is the real problem.
So we take your idea to it’s logical conclusion the only people having children will be the immigrant communities congratulations you’ve wiped out your own nation or at least put it’s future generations into a minority in their own country.
You had my attention till the shooting down in flames bit, you let emotion get in the way of reason
A lot of assuming there all I am against is the lack of forethought and irresponsibility of people who have children and dont consider the responsibilty of providing for them but expect handouts when they cant manage their finances
As we’ve been told no one can expect a job to last for more than a year let alone for life anymore.There is no way that the unions have the strength to defend living standards in the brave new Thatcherite world in which we invest all the money earn’t here in China (and Turkey) which they then use to put our own workers out of work at worst or in lower paid employment than would otherwise be the case at best.Therefore it’s obvious that your idea,of workers using so called foresight and responsibility,won’t work.Just as it didn’t for my Grandad when he struggled to raise a family of 5 plus one who died before the age of 5 because the money earn’t by the average British worker during the early 20 th century was worth about as much as living standards are heading for now with health care services to match.
However all of those children then contributed to the WW2 war effort either in our wartime factories and/or on the battle field and then at least one of them had to use the pittance earn’t in one of those wartime factories,at the age of 14,to support his widowed mum when her husband died before reaching retirement age,in a world without much in the way of social security benefits nor sufficient wages to have covered any decent life insurance policies.
As I’ve said in the current economic climate many British workers have the choice between taking your advice,which locically means that there is no economic case to have any children whatsoever,or make the type of choice which my grandad made.In which he (rightly) said zb the economics and just had a family like his fellow workers did during those depression years of the 1920’s.While if he hadn’t have made that (correct) choice I wouldn’t have been able to be here now shooting your argument down in flames.Just as his kids did in helping to defeat Hitler.
The only difference between now and then is that,as I’ve said,it’s not Hitler now.It’s more a case of not allowing the immigrant population to out populate our own because there’s no way that they will give a zb about following your advice in which case they eventually form the majority and what’s left of our own population becomes a foreign minority in it’s own country.
You had my attention till the shooting down in flames bit then you let emotion get in the way of reason
Fair enough so your way it is then.Which means the continuation of the British nation is hereby declared an economic liablity which we can no longer afford.
lizard:
working tax credits?
what is this like to have?
i havent qualified for it 8 years now as i apparently earn to much?
my circumstances are
a wife (non working full time mother)
earnings nil
4 kids 11, 7, 3, 2 (to young to work)
earnings nil
me (hard working steering wheel attended)
earnings £34,000.00
Next door neighbour
wife and husband on dole
3 kids
earnings £40,000.00 (bole + tax credits etc) plus rent and council tax paid
where is the fairness?
(Answers on a post card please)
Maybe the husband in that case is on the dole because he can’t find a job paying £34,000 pa no doubt soon to be joined by many others such as those Ford workers who’s jobs have been given to the Turks.In which case how long before the economy as a whole can no longer afford or justify paying anyone £34,000 pa.
oldsid:
I see the government is even seeing sense now and limiting benefits for people how have more children than they can afford and who multiply without a responsible means of supporting a large family
You had my attention till the shooting down in flames bit, you let emotion get in the way of reason
A lot of assuming there all I am against is the lack of forethought and irresponsibility of people who have children and dont consider the responsibilty of providing for them but expect handouts when they cant manage their finances
Fair enough so your way it is then.Which means the continuation of the British nation is hereby declared an economic liablity which we can no longer afford.
I see some of your reasoning and begin to feel theres something fundamentally wrong with the system, as yes a couple should be able to have a family without handouts but ,and its along time since the debate started, I seem to remember my point was about having a large number of kids as opposed to a number that was reasonable to support with the finance available to the parents, which is different to saying no kids at all. We are propably not poles apart but the arguments against my thinking seem to have gone down the "shouldnt have kids at all route which isnt what I originally said. Thanks for staying with a reasonable argument and point of view.
lizard:
working tax credits?
what is this like to have?
i havent qualified for it 8 years now as i apparently earn to much?
my circumstances are
a wife (non working full time mother)
earnings nil
4 kids 11, 7, 3, 2 (to young to work)
earnings nil
me (hard working steering wheel attended)
earnings £34,000.00
Next door neighbour
wife and husband on dole
3 kids
earnings £40,000.00 (bole + tax credits etc) plus rent and council tax paid
where is the fairness?
(Answers on a post card please)
Maybe the husband in that case is on the dole because he can’t find a job paying £34,000 pa no doubt soon to be joined by many others such as those Ford workers who’s jobs have been given to the Turks.In which case how long before the economy as a whole can no longer afford or justify paying anyone £34,000 pa.
nope
his words are
“its better to be out of work because i earn more than if i was working”
oldsid:
I see the government is even seeing sense now and limiting benefits for people how have more children than they can afford and who multiply without a responsible means of supporting a large family
You had my attention till the shooting down in flames bit, you let emotion get in the way of reason
A lot of assuming there all I am against is the lack of forethought and irresponsibility of people who have children and dont consider the responsibilty of providing for them but expect handouts when they cant manage their finances
Fair enough so your way it is then.Which means the continuation of the British nation is hereby declared an economic liablity which we can no longer afford.
I see some of your reasoning and begin to feel theres something fundamentally wrong with the system, as yes a couple should be able to have a family without handouts but ,and its along time since the debate started, I seem to remember my point was about having a large number of kids as opposed to a number that was reasonable to support with the finance available to the parents, which is different to saying no kids at all. We are propably not poles apart but the arguments against my thinking seem to have gone down the "shouldnt have kids at all route which isnt what I originally said. Thanks for staying with a reasonable argument and point of view.
If you take the argument,concerning the economics of having children being the priority,to it’s logical conclusion,then under the economic environment of the 1920’s,which I provided as an example,there was no possible case for the average worker to have any children at all let alone 6.If the average British (or American) worker of the 1920’s had taken your advice I wouldn’t have been here and the country would probably now be under German National Socialist Party rule.
If the same logic is transferred up to date then there still wouldn’t be any sensible economic case for having any children at all in the present or foreseeable economic climate.In which case,assuming this is the last of the indigenous generations,and assuming that the immigrant communities will continue to see it the way they do in their own cultures/countries,in which economics don’t even count in the decision,concerning having children or how many,then the implications seem obvious.
The fact that we’re even having this discussion,which actually shows that the continuation of future generations is economically unviable,just proves the fact that the system which we’re using doesn’t work.Just as it didn’t during the 1920’s.Luckily for western civilisation the workers of that time didn’t listen to your advice.
