Had a strange day today. Start at 6.30 am, leave Widnes at 7am and arrive in Kirkby at 7.30am. On the bay at 8am, and i’m there all day (handball container).
I put it on POA at 8am and took it off POA when i was done at 3pm (7hrs POA). leave Kirkby at 3.05pm arrive back in depot, set up swap over and book off at 16.15pm. I had been asked to sign for NO chep pallets at Kirkby, “it says zero pallets mate”, “yeah i know, can you still sign it for our forms to be proccessed”, “you want me to sign for no pallets? OK then”.Strange 
Back at the depot i book off and as i expected one of the bosses comes to the desk with my tacho chart, “sign the back”, me: “what for?”, “you’ve had no break”, “i didn’t need to take one”, " just sign it" " no “, " ok you won’t get paid” and off he goes. I am then summoned to the reception area and told i need to show a break as i have been on duty for 9 and three quarter hours. I know but i have only done less than 3 hours work (2 3/4 actually) the rest is POA not work so i wasn’t required to take a break. As it happens the agency guy was on site and in the office with us, they both tell me i needed to take a break, they’re both more knowlegable than me, i’d get a fine if VOSA seen the tacho and i’m jeapordising their O licence etc. As the boss explained to me, they don’t take advice from the likes of me who “got his information from someone in the pub”, they have a proffesional out fit to run. As right as i am i can understand his point of view and in his shoes i would not listen to a driver either. The point of my post really is to show how much (or little) people actually know about integration or even seperatly of the EU driving regs and the WTD. The upshot of it is, i have agreed to show breaks even when i don’t need them, as it looks better. And true enough it does, even though they are uneccessary. Anyway, i didn’t get my info from anyone in the pub, i’m a self appointed expert !! As is anyone who actually reads what the rules say.
When i was at the desk being told to sign there was 2 drivers there who started with the old “i thought POA was…” i just rolled my eyes and said i know what it is !! Anyway, make sure you know your stuff out there as no one else does!!!
so your back in o’conners then.
sometimes it easier just sign for the breaks then make it up the next day in a layby with your feet up.
Mike-C:
Anyway, i didn’t get my info from anyone in the pub, i’m a self appointed expert !! As is anyone who actually reads what the rules say.
Not many actually read them it seems these days. I bet they would tell you you need a 30 minute break before exceeding 6 hours work as well, what with them being so knowledgeable on the rules. 
Ask them about that next time you’re in there.
How dare they question the knowledge gained down the pub, don’t they know the MMTM rules trump all other regulations.
jessicas dad:
so your back in o’conners then.
Yeah but i nearly wasn’t !! It wasn’t heated or anything but quite firm, i told the first guy not to roll his eyes at me i ain’t signing anything !! The second guy who deals with the drivers , one of the bosses not the admin, thought i was being funny and wasn’t sure if he liked my attitude I think he realised i was right, but and this is the point of my post really, most companies as so scared of falling foul of the regs they overcompensate or make the regs up as they see them. The guy from the agency who was in there on buisness had a great contribution to the conversation, “where would you put your end of daily rest line”, at 6.30am i told him. "yep, thats 9 3/4 hours duty you need to have shown a break " I give up , when i sign the daily thing to say that i understand the drivers regs, i really do. Same numpties test you on it and think they are some way qualified to mark it?
Coffeeholic:
Mike-C:
Anyway, i didn’t get my info from anyone in the pub, i’m a self appointed expert !! As is anyone who actually reads what the rules say.Not many actually read them it seems these days.
Out of interest Neil, what would you have done? It looks like to stay there i’ll have to adopt their rules, which is OK by me, but i hate it when you are right and they think you’re wrong. I did offer to take my tacho to VOSA tommorrow and come back with a written explanation if my word wasn’t good enough, they declined. Mind you VOSA make it up as they go along as well, they’d probably refer me to someone else!!
Mike-C:
Out of interest Neil, what would you have done?
There is no way on this earth I would have signed the chart. I have not infringed the rules so I am not putting a signature to a legal document saying I have. But then I am a stubborn bugger and I won’t back down to someone who doesn’t know the regulations. You shouldn’t let it drop Mike. Prove them wrong, which isn’t going to be difficult and they may think twice before having a pop at you over the regulations again.
Coffeeholic:
I bet they would tell you you need a 30 minute break before exceeding 6 hours work as well,
Not because I am questioning it but because I don’t appear to have bookmarked it when it has been mentioned before . . . . . . . but do you have a link to an ‘official’ site/explanation that I can utilise for future reference? (please!)
Quite correct coffee
The problem with most office wallers is they gain a little bit of knowledge, and we all know a little bit of knowledge is dangerous, they all say they read the regulations and know what they are on about, reading the regulations is all good and fine, but and its a big BUT “It’s how they INTERPRET what they read on whether they have got it right and know what they are talking about.”
Not taking advice from the troops on the ground, you know the ones, they are the guys who actually do the job god forbid, is whan things start to go wrong.
marcustandy:
Coffeeholic:
I bet they would tell you you need a 30 minute break before exceeding 6 hours work as well,Not because I am questioning it but because I don’t appear to have bookmarked it when it has been mentioned before . . . . . . . but do you have a link to an ‘official’ site/explanation that I can utilise for future reference? (please!)
You don’t get much more official than THIS
Section 7 is the bit you want on breaks, although Section 7.4 appears to have been printed using special ink visible to very few people.
Coffeeholic:
You don’t get much more official than THIS
Thankyou Neil! Duly ‘bookmarked’ to save me having to ask ‘same old same old’ questions. 
but surely 7.4 now stands amended?
Driveroneuk:
but surely 7.4 now stands amended?
Now here is the confusion. 7.4 is or has not been ammended. That is the RTD directive you looked at. The 15 minute minimum break still applies to RTD and WTD. The requirement for the second part of a break period to be a minimum 30 mins is a EU driving regs requirement (so only kicks in after a, or when a four and half hour drive has occured). As can easily be seen there is a lot of conflict and confusement. In my days example it would of been possible for me to put in a further one and half hours work, thus making a 11 and quarter hour day and not have to show a break nor any requirement to take one, Albeit the day would show 4 hours work, regs hey !!!
Weather report for Widnes:
It was nice and sunny about an hour ago.
Driveroneuk:
but surely 7.4 now stands amended?
There hasn’t been any amendment to the RTD/WTD regulations, they are still as they were when they were introduced.
I can only assume you thought this was something to do with the tacho regulations, which it isn’t. Not having a pop at you D1UK but that is a classic example of someone not reading something properly.
Mike-C:
Weather report for Widnes:It was nice and sunny about an hour ago.
MMTM it was going to rain there. I’d pack an anorak if I were you. 
Mike-C:
The 15 minute minimum break still applies to RTD and WTD.
And indeed still applies to the tacho regs as well. Minimum period to count as a break under those is still 15 minutes, it is only the ability to split the 45 into 3x15 minutes that has been removed.
Mind you, you could be onto something here Mike, I was informed by a driver the other day that you can’t take 15 minutes under the new regs and if you do VOSA will fine you. 
Coffeeholic:
Mike-C:
Weather report for Widnes:It was nice and sunny about an hour ago.
MMTM it was going to rain there. I’d pack an anorak if I were you.
I did have my anorak with me, its all safe in our front porch now!!!
Coffeeholic:
Mind you, you could be onto something here Mike, I was informed by a driver the other day that you can’t take 15 minutes under the new regs and if you do VOSA will fine you.
They will automatically fine you soon , VOSA are getting your bank details from your employer, entering them onto a database so as soon as any infringements are detected when your card is downloaded the fine comes out of your bank account there and then £ 50 an infringement they reckon .
I think i am right in saying that ,if VOSA or anyone else including your employer, removes anything from your bank account without your consent that is THEFT. And if your employer gives your personal details out to anyone else they will be in breach of your civil rights.I think it will also be covered by the Data Protection Act.
hal56:
I think i am right in saying that ,if VOSA or anyone else including your employer, removes anything from your bank account without your consent that is THEFT. And if your employer gives your personal details out to anyone else they will be in breach of your civil rights.I think it will also be covered by the Data Protection Act.
I think you’ll find the government are exempt