Tachomaster says I've sinned!

Can’t quite fathom this one out, unless I’m overlooking the bleeding obvious.

Weekly rest; 44hrs 23 mins.

Monday; start 06.40, finish 19.38, 12,58 spread, 9.29 rest.

Tuesday; start 05.07, finish 19.46, 14.39 spread, 9.39 rest.

Wednesday; start 05.25, finish 19.32, 13.57 spread, 12.05 rest.

Thursday; start 07.37, finish 20.34, 12,57 spread, 9.13 rest.

Friday; start 05.47, finish 20.37, 14.50 spread.

Tachomaster says that I broke the law at 05.47 on the Friday by “taking too many short rests”; correct me if I’m wrong please but this looks perfectly legal to me? Three fifteens, three nines but AFAIK the two don’t necessarily have to go together? No issue with previous week’s driving hours as I only did 26 due to a training day; 38 hours total driving for this week.

I am aware BTW that I’ve also committed the far worse sin of going over the Wasted Time Directive by 7 minutes! :wink:

Thursday night you should had 11 off
Wednesday night only counts as a 9

Seconded. If you work more than 13hrs in a fixed 24hr period it counts as reduced rest even if you have 11 off before you start again the next day.

tango boy:
Thursday night you should had 11 off
Wednesday night only counts as a 9

Hmmmm… yes, I can see it now, inside a 24 hour period etc.

Ah well… sometimes you can’t do right for doing wrong can you? :unamused:

Thank you gentlemen.

The fact that people still don’t understand daily and weekly rest periods shows that the CPC is clearly not working…

Not a dig at the OP… Just a general opinion

trubster:
The fact that people still don’t understand daily and weekly rest periods shows that the CPC is clearly not working…

Not a dig at the OP… Just a general opinion

Which isn’t surprising considering the ridiculously over complicated regs which would easily be sorted by making it 12 hours max spread and 12 hours minimum daily rest with no reductions.

trubster:
The fact that people still don’t understand daily and weekly rest periods shows that the CPC is clearly not working…

Not a dig at the OP… Just a general opinion

Questions on the hours laws have been part of the theory test for a provisional hgv license for nearly 20 years, I’m sure they were in mine.

trubster:
The fact that people still don’t understand daily and weekly rest periods shows that the CPC is clearly not working…

Not a dig at the OP… Just a general opinion

Not taken as one; in my defence I’d suggest that it’s a relatively easy mistake to make, in that by following one rule you end up inadvertently breaking another. Having to keep an eye on two sets of regulations (driving and WTD) hardly helps matters either; and whilst I’m evidently not perfect i’m not daft either.

I looked through the official VOSA rule book before posting this question; the penny didn’t drop with me until Tango Boy pointed it out, and I’ve never fallen foul of this one before AFAIK in the thirty-odd years I’ve been doing this job. Doubt I’ll be the first or last to make this mistake though.

There will however be an almighty row with our planners on Monday; whilst I concede that this is my error and I should have spotted it, the job I was given would not have been feasible without doing it the way I did, and according to VOSA’s book they should know better than to do that.

Just enter a remark about it as an error, you people worry too much, it’s not like you are a constant offender.

Pat Hasler:
Just enter a remark about it as an error, you people worry too much, it’s not like you are a constant offender.

Agreed Pat. Thing is in the UK companies now employ people simply to worry; or more to the point, to fuss and faff about genuine oversights like mine (as opposed to deliberate falsifications etc) and grind you down by blathering on endlessly about it and pestering you to sign a zillion bits of paper for the next six months, or until someone else drops a similar clanger in which case the attention is transferred elsewhere.

Unlike America, there is no allowance for the fact that ■■■■ does occasionally happen and that we, as drivers, are only human.

I think you’re going to get another ■■■■■■■ next week too??

You worked over a 13hr on Friday too, even though you had no reducers left

trubster:
The fact that people still don’t understand daily and weekly rest periods shows that the CPC is clearly not working…

Not a dig at the OP… Just a general opinion

To some degree I agree. Some DCPC is lacking but I believe these below average places are slowly going out of business. But I also believe there is an element of drivers that are the problem. Just as every school has pupils with special needs that need to be educated in different ways we have the same in DCPC but the system fails to acknowledge this.

The current system does not allow a trainer to deviate from the approved course timetable. If I have someone in the class that simply cannot ‘get it’ I am limited in what I can do. If I concentrate on him - the rest are ignored. The system does not cater for different levels of ability. If I ‘design’ the course content for the special needs kind of pupil I bore other drivers to death. I suppose I could advertise different courses - one for normal people and one for retards :smiley:

I delivered a course yesterday with just 3 drivers specially arranged by their employer. It wasn’t DCPC - it was a remedial Training session for reasons I’ll cover later. We spent over 2 hours on just this topic - that 24 hour period.

I went through it and gave some examples all in slow time step by step - then gave them a set of simple times for a drivers week so they could identify how must rest was taken. There were 2 days with over 13h duty but more than 11h between shifts. Two of them got it wrong.

We did it all again, different approach this time. Different way of looking at it, different delivery method by me. Same again. One driver insisted as long as he worked less than 15 hours it was OK etc etc. when I explained why it wasn’t OK his answer was “■■■■■■■■”.

I ‘think’ we got there in the end but I came to the conclusion some either have learning difficulties, are simply stupid, don’t listen, don’t care or I am actually crap at my job.

These three drivers are from a company currently facing a public inquiry and 3 of the drivers are being prosecuted for this particular offence (and others) that was found at the roadside for one driver and a company visit followed. The particular driver had reduced his rest a fifth time since his last weekly rest. (He also drove a full day without inserting his card!!! 600k’s and didn’t realise). DVSA went back 3 months for each driver.

All drivers at this company have their DCPC and all were ‘trained’ by me. I KNOW what training they had and on each course I go around the room and ask each individual if they have any questions. I cover the daily rest and weekly rest areas in detail. A drivers hours course with me is a full day - most are only half day then some other topic.

I am quite sure I couldn’t do more to try and make sure they get it. The problem is some of the drivers and yes in places the DCPC system isn’t working.

As for the OP. Maybe he just forgot about the 24h rule. Maybe he hadn’t been told due to crap training. But why didn’t his employer pick it up and explain it? His post clearly highlights an operator who doesn’t know his own job.

shep532:
As for the OP. Maybe he just forgot about the 24h rule.

I did. As said above after 30 years I should have known better; put getting the job done above thinking about staying legal, mea culpa. NOT the same thing as deliberately ignoring the rules, hopefully management and VOSA will understand that.

I can assure you that my management WILL pick it up and probably explain it to me more times than a sane man should have to listen to. They’re actually pretty strict, and that’s a good thing.

There is no requirement to attend a dcpc course on driver regs

A driver could do a customer service course 5 times and get a DQC

Newbies are not given a compulsory test on the regs

Reduced daily rest if …
1 - shift over 13 hours
2 - less than 11 hours between shifts

Sidevalve:

shep532:
As for the OP. Maybe he just forgot about the 24h rule.

I did. As said above after 30 years I should have known better; put getting the job done above thinking about staying legal, mea culpa. NOT the same thing as deliberately ignoring the rules, hopefully management and VOSA will understand that.

I can assure you that my management WILL pick it up and probably explain it to me more times than a sane man should have to listen to. They’re actually pretty strict, and that’s a good thing.

Ahh so you have used Tachomaster yourself? Good stuff.

Of course the operator has to make sure they cover their backs or they end up in a public inquiry just like two of my customers have found. Both are cases of consistent errors - so in a way that is the operators fault.

ROG:
There is no requirement to attend a dcpc course on driver regs

A driver could do a customer service course 5 times and get a DQC

Newbies are not given a compulsory test on the regs

Yes - the rules need changing. Certain topics should be compulsory and tested.

Theory test and Mod 2 for new drivers both contain an element of questions on drivers hours.

waynedl:
I think you’re going to get another [zb] next week too??

You worked over a 13hr on Friday too, even though you had no reducers left

Given that I’d overlooked that in the first place (having managed to convince myself that I’d got three 15’s and three 9’s to play with) then perhaps understandable. As you say two separate offences but with a common cause.

I suspect that the planners might also have a few questions to answer; as you say Shep they, unless I’m mistaken, are partially responsible inasmuch as they should plan my workload in order for me to stay legal.

And yes, thanks ROG, got it now. :slight_smile:

shep532:

ROG:
There is no requirement to attend a dcpc course on driver regs

A driver could do a customer service course 5 times and get a DQC

Newbies are not given a compulsory test on the regs

Yes - the rules need changing. Certain topics should be compulsory and tested.

Theory test and Mod 2 for new drivers both contain an element of questions on drivers hours.

Mod 2 would be better as a test on driver regs and nothing else

ROG:
Mod 2 would be better as a test on driver regs and nothing else

Yep - I’ll second that.