Ok after some balanced opinion. Been working for a firm for 15 months. Not perfect but No accidents at all. No days off sick. Never moaned at all. Never refused any type of job. Now that’s not bad for a driver cos we know what we can be like.
Now to the infringement. One Thursday night I parked up at 5pm for a rest. Truck did not move an inch.. however I’d been asked recently to leave my card in over night. That night I forgot to press the button. I reported it next day with a print out.
Basically he sacked me for it. Well that’s his excuse.
My question is. Did I actually even commit the infringement. The infringement was failing to take the minimum rest of 9 hours. I initially thought I’d actually commited the offence but now I wonder if I did.
The truck never moved an inch. I was parked in a truck stop. If I did anything it was not pressing a button. Clearly I made an error but I’m thinking I could argue I actually did not commit the offence I’ve been sacked over.
What are your thoughts.
Steveeasy
1 Like
I won’t give any answers, but will say that I think you have two separate issues here.
One, is tachograph and driver hours law.
Two, is employment law.
Yes you did commit the infringement as you did not change the mode. Sacking someone for 1 infringement is harsh mind. Small company or big PLC?
An infringement letter signed by you and a correction on tacho software and a printout with manual correction from you to the office and keep one on yourself should have sufficed, and worst case scenario a verbal warning for it.
And for legal recourse under 2 years service they can get rid of you for any reason they like, wouldn’t even get to a tribunal most likely. So mark it up to experience and find a better employer and learn from it.
Ok there is more to this which I’ll explain later if anyone is even interested in but I’d like to focus on the infringement first.
It might end up being useful to a few of us who are not perfect but do a good job and get done over, maybe not!!
Steveeasy
1 Like
Oh inm now invested as I have sweet naff all to do at the moment while I’m not at work😂
As i said you did not change the mode on the head, that is a no no in the laws eyes, a simple error yes but things like that can have a severe consequence for both driver and the company especially if the red on their OCRS traffic light, hence the major reaction by said boss. Especially if you have lots of infringements regularly, ut so far all you have said is that one that we have to go on. I’m not saying you’d do have loads but that can make it even more severe.
Oh and yes you did not have a qualifying rest period simple as that, even with a printout and manual correction on tacho software, you still did not have a qualifying rest period.
I would certainly say there is more to it and that he probably wanted to get rid of you for whatever reason. You say everything was good but seems to me it wasn’t as good as you thought according to your boss. I’m not saying either is right or wrong just stating it from an unbiased opinion, don’t take it as I’m having a pop at you as I’m not.
Too late on a Saturday night…but…was that the infringement, really?
Or, was it failing to record a rest period?
But did I.? I think you’re right I failed by error in not recording it, but the infringement is failing to actually not taking the rest period. If one can prove they did take the rest then the only sin would be a technical one. Being picky and over thinking it ,
History
Great relationship with boss. Had a few infringements in past. Really got much better. Most recent one a week earlier got told don’t worry you don’t get them anymore.
He turns nasty when I was ill after working 11 hours. I did not feel safe to drive for a further four hours and asked if the delivery slot got moved later the next day.
Basically he went potty. Next day did an infringement notice stating he’d briefed me. He never ever had. Disaplinary hearing three days later. I reported his actions higher up. Hearing suspended. I then sent him one single email stating I’d contacted dVSA over the infringement to get advice to defend my self. Instantly sacked within an hour.
So that’s the history.
Steveeasy
1 Like
Well however you think it may be you have not had the required rest recorded on the tacho, yes a simple mistake I agree we all do them from time to time. But it’s an infringement none the less and it stands and you can be fined fir it etc etc. saying you contacted DVSA to them also probably didn’t help your case. As for recourse I suggest you speak to a HR professional or preferably a lawyer if you really want to fight it, but I suspect it will cost you more to fight it than the potential for compo.
The issue is you cannot prove you did take the rest for DVSA. requirements as you had a tacho head and your card was in and did not record it as rest. You could have spent 9 hours cleaning your truck or unloading by hand or any other number of other work activities. We know you didn’t and he knows and the company knows, even DVSA would believe it’s a genuine mistake, but the law is simple sometimes, record it. No amount of printouts or explanations or manual correction on tacho software removes an infringement nor suddenly makes it legal, it is merely and explanation on what happend and how in mitigation.
Had it been recorded on your card you would have proof, but even that does not actually prove you didn’t do any other work or that you rested, This is why the law can simple and also a complete ass at the same time.
Where I worked. Some drivers crashed every other month. One hit a police car!! Not sacked.
Moaning about not finishing at 12 on a Friday was common. I never moaned ever. Always stayed out all week. Some would go in office and call office staff cxxxxx. Did not get sacked. Some had not done a 5 day week for months. True not sacked.
I don’t think I was sacked for the infringement. The hearing was suspended until senior boss returned from 2 week holiday. Then rightly or wrongly I contacted DVSA as I was not briefed over the infringement and felt it not a massive issue. Felt strongly enough to stand up to the big bully and tell him I’d taken advise and the axe fell.
Did it help me? Well in employment law employees have some protected rights. Rights that do not require 2 years service. Reporting/whistleblowing is a protected right. Yes I’m defiantly taking them to an employment tribunal for automatic unfair dismissal but I just keep trying to work out how bad my infringement was or was not.
Steveeasy
1 Like
At the end of the day you think your right I get that, but I say you are not on technicalities which is what the law would go on, I’ve worked closely with a compliance manger so know a fair amount about tacho type stuff and even less than many more people, but I do know it’s unlikely you will get anywhere with any recourse. As I said if you feel that strongly goan stalk to those that really know and take it from there, instead of asking other lorry drivers what they think. Even talking about it in here a form of social media could be construed as prejudicial mto a case most likely.
so basicaly what your saying is that you refused to do a delivery because you felt ill and unable to carry on. you then failed to operate the tacho correctly and put it on break so recorded x amount of hours of other work rather than rest which would of generated at least 2 infringements ie daily rest and working more than 15 hours. you say you kept getting infrigments before but havent for a little while yet got one last week. So messing with the guys business as if anyone comes to look they are going to get excited by that. You then tell him that you have contacted the dvsa despite the cobblers about you wanting to get advice to defend yourself (from what your at fault there is no defence) you have jepodised the company even further.
Good luck but as I said clearly things were no where near as rosy as you think it was, what others do or don’t do is of no concern to you for your disciplinary I’m afraid, it sucks but again that’s life. Simply your face clearly did not fit. And for protected rights yes that’s true but I also don’t think you have any recourse, but please come on and let us know how you got on with it all, I’d be interested to hear the outcome. I have no idea idea how old you are but I suspect either your possibly a fair whack younger than me or possibly a fair whack older, your posts strike me as either a younger person who thinks they know it all because of social media and stuff, or an older person who is just cantankerous and pissed off. I could be well wide of the mark it’s just the vibes I’m getting from out conversation. And as always ill be happy to be proved wrong by anyone on any of the points I’ve put across, as I like to learn new stuff and someone else always knows more than I do, but you asked for advice and I’ve given you the best advice I can based on things I know or believe.
In a nutshell that’s what it seems like to me, when people realise any company 99.9% of the time you are a bum on the seat nothing more nothing less they may well start looking at them differently.
No don’t think I’m right. Just asking for an opinion cos I’m asking myself the question.
I’ve never commited an infringement intentionally. Say to get back or anything else. Just trying to get opinion from like minded drivers. We all mess up at times.
I just tend to think in the grand scheme of infringements it was on the minor scale. A technicality. Then tonight I just wondered what the crime was. My thinking the crime was failing to press the button. I can prove on the balance of probabilities I took the rest.
1 Like
And as for other drivers having accidents they can be at fault or not at fault, it can cost the company money or not cost the company money, but breaking the law can cost the company it’s licence and put it out of business. And if that happens everyone loses.
No I totally agree you did not do it intentionally but never the less you did it, no it’s no buts, you caused 2 potentially serious infringements that can have far reaching repercussions, regardless of any other perceived agenda against you. As I’ve said I don’t believe you have any legal recourse unless you have reams of evidence to back it up and even then I still don’t think you stand a cat in hells chance of even getting to a tribunal let alone win, but as I said let us know how you get on.