Tacho and WTD, again, Sorry

ASK THE EXPERTS SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE
1

Can I just try and get my head around this:-
I can Drive for 45hrs a week, but this can be increased to 47hrs. That’s 9hrs x 5 or 9hrs X 3 plus 2 X 10hrs??
On top of this, I can do 6hrs ‘Other work’ a day but I must have 9hrs off sleeping or resting a day?

So, if I ‘max out’ on my Hours during the 5 days I can’t do overtime, can I?

So, in 3 weeks the most I can drive is 141hrs?

This makes me feel so thick, not being able to get my head around it and it comes so easy to Drivers, ahhhh that’s it :blush:

Thanks for repeating what is no doubt somewhere on here. :blush:

2

First of all most of this is the drivers hours and tachograph regulations, only the maximum week of 60 hours is down to the WTD :wink:

You can drive for for a maximum of 56 hours in the fixed week 00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday.
In any two consecutive fixed weeks you can drive for a maximum of 90 hours.
So if you did 56 hours driving one week you would be restricted to 34 hours the following week (56 + 34 = 90 hours driving).
Drive for 40 hours one week and you will be restricted to 50 driving the following week (40 + 50 = 90 hours driving).

Do not get the fixed week Monday 00:00 to Sunday 24:00 mixed up with the time between weekly rest periods, unless you work Monday to Friday/Saturday of course.

In the 24 hour period from the start of shift you must have 11consecutive hours rest so you can have a total shift spread-over of 13 hours (13 hour shift + 11 daily rest = 24 hours from start of shift).
The 11 hours daily rest can be reduced to 9 hours 3 times between weekly rest periods so this would mean a 15 hour shift spread-over(15 hours shift spread-over + 9 hours daily rest = 24 hours from start of shift)

You can work for a maximum of 60 hours per fixed week (00:00 Monday to 24:00 Sunday), that’s the WTD bit :wink:

Within six 24 hour periods (144 hours) from the end of the last weekly rest period you must start a new weekly rest period of 45 hours.
This can be reduced every other week but we’ll get into that later when you’ve got your head round the rest of the stuff :wink:

No need to feel thick mate, you’re smart enough to ask about the things that you’re not sure about and that’s a course of action that some people never figure out :wink:

Feel free to post back about anything you’re not sure about :smiley:

3

Thanks Tachograph :smiley:
I’m hoping to start with VdB on Monday and it’s 3 weeks on and 1 off, I’m guessing week 3 will be 56hrs so I get a week off to get ‘over it’ and get back with a ‘clean sheet’. Does this sound right?
On my week off, I could drive for 34hrs, if I did 56hrs the week before?

The loading and unloading would come under the WTD, part of the 60hrs, yes? What if the loading or whatever, took 5hrs, could I be on ‘rest’?

Does this become ‘simple’ as you go along or does it still take some working out?

4

dinosteveus1:
The loading and unloading would come under the WTD, part of the 60hrs, yes?

It does, yes. the 60 hours is driving and other work but not breaks or POA

dinosteveus1:
What if the loading or whatever, took 5hrs, could I be on ‘rest’?

If you are doing the unloading then no, if you are not doing the unloading and using the period for recuperation then yes.

5

Thanks Neil, :smiley:
Glad you’re here, you are one of the Drivers that seem to like to leave it to the last minute to either stop for their 45mins or stop for the day. Why is that? If you see somewhere nice to stop at before your time is up why not stop early? Isn’t it ‘safer’ to go under your driving hours than ove

You’d never guess that I did 7 hours Drivers hours and WTD for my DCPC. It was so dull and the instructor seemed to drone on and made it sound about as interesting as watching paint dry. Although, I was the only one there who’d not used a DigiCard or done any ‘commercial’ driving :blush:

6

dinosteveus1:
I’m hoping to start with VdB on Monday and it’s 3 weeks on and 1 off, I’m guessing week 3 will be 56hrs so I get a week off to get ‘over it’ and get back with a ‘clean sheet’. Does this sound right?

Can’t answer that I’m afrad as I have no idea how VdB work.

dinosteveus1:
On my week off, I could drive for 34hrs, if I did 56hrs the week before?

You’ve got the idea, in any two consecutive weeks you’re limited to 90 hours driving.
For instance if in week 1 you did 50 hours driving then you would be able to do 40 hours driving in week 2, if you did do 40 hours driving in week 2 then you would be able to do 50 hours driving in week 3.
The two consecutive weeks should always be no more than 90 hours driving.

dinosteveus1:
The loading and unloading would come under the WTD, part of the 60hrs, yes?

As Coffeeholic has said that’s right, but it also comes under the drivers hours regulations and should be recorded as “Other Work”.

dinosteveus1:
What if the loading or whatever, took 5hrs, could I be on ‘rest’?

Again as Coffeeholic has said legally you can only put the tachograph on “Rest” when you are on break or rest and not working.
Loading/unloading is “Other Work”.

dinosteveus1:
Does this become ‘simple’ as you go along or does it still take some working out?

It certainly becomes much easier as you go along but you still need to work it out sometimes.
Just one of those things that some people take to easier that others but you will get the hang of it in time :wink:

7

dinosteveus1:
Thanks Neil, :smiley:
Glad you’re here, you are one of the Drivers that seem to like to leave it to the last minute to either stop for their 45mins or stop for the day. Why is that? If you see somewhere nice to stop at before your time is up why not stop early? Isn’t it ‘safer’ to go under your driving hours than over

I can’t answer for Coffeeholic but I’m sure he will agree that you should always do your best to avoid going over your driving time.

It’s not really a good idea to leave it till the last minute to have your break or finish driving for the day as it’s so easy to get held up and go over your driving time, which is likely to result in infringements and possibly a fixed penalty if you get pulled by VOSA.

8

dinosteveus1:
Thanks Neil, :smiley:
Glad you’re here, you are one of the Drivers that seem to like to leave it to the last minute to either stop for their 45mins or stop for the day. Why is that? If you see somewhere nice to stop at before your time is up why not stop early? Isn’t it ‘safer’ to go under your driving hours than ove

You’d never guess that I did 7 hours Drivers hours and WTD for my DCPC. It was so dull and the instructor seemed to drone on and made it sound about as interesting as watching paint dry. Although, I was the only one there who’d not used a DigiCard or done any ‘commercial’ driving :blush:

I will put my take on this question, whether we like it or not all of us have to be somewhere at a given time, whether that is Auntie Flo’s wedding or an irate customer in Italy who is about to run out of malt extract.

Time and time again myself and many others have mentioned how flexible the EU 561/2006 rules are, they allow the driver to plan his day, they allow the planner to plan a drivers day. The trick is to get close to the regulated hours but never over them.

Neil has a way of explaining the rules, but he is still using the same rule book that I and every other driver in Europe has to follow.

Print out a copy of this, take it with you to ERP and read it every time you stop for a break or while you are tipping chocolate for 5 hours.

REGULATION (EC) No 561/2006

Some drivers prefer night driving, some like getting up with the lark, others prefer saving a reduced rest for the end of the week to ensure you can get back to the yard, beach, city centre, pub, etc

9

I’ve just found the Drivers Hours Guard that I bought 2 years ago. Still boxed and unused, how sad is that. :blush:

Would anything ‘happen’ if I went over the WTD hours?

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it. :stuck_out_tongue: :smiley:

10

dinosteveus1:
Does this sound right?
On my week off, I could drive for 34hrs, if I did 56hrs the week before?

Until you get the hang of the hours I would be very careful of taking on agency work on your week off.

I doubt “the company” would be too impressed if they flew you back in to do a 10hr driving shift on your first Sunday and you refuse or got parked up by the authorities as you have already done 30 hours on the agency or for your mate on your week off.

11

dinosteveus1:
Would anything ‘happen’ if I went over the WTD hours?

Not a lot - if anything - the RT(WTD)R is the employers headache - it’s your duty to inform the main employer of work done whether for them or another employer and it’s up to the main employer to keep track of your averages

VOSA have the task of enforcing the RT(WTD)R but they do not have the manpower to do it so unless some sort of major incident occurs then…

12

dinosteveus1:
Would anything ‘happen’ if I went over the WTD hours?

For the WTD you are restricted to 60 hours a week working time which does not include breaks, rest or POA, so if you are likely to get close to 60 hours try to use POA or breaks when waiting, this will help to keep your working time hours down.

For the WTD you are also restricted to an average of 48 hours working time over a reference period which is usually 17 weeks.

VOSA are supposed to regulate the WTD but to be honest they don’t have the resources to regulate it effectively.

The 60 hour week is reasonably easy for them to see if your card or charts are checked so it’s probably best to stick to it, to be honest I’ve no idea whether or not they check for the 60 hour week when they do a card/chart check but I imagine they probably do.

13

Wheel Nut:

dinosteveus1:
Does this sound right?
On my week off, I could drive for 34hrs, if I did 56hrs the week before?

Until you get the hang of the hours I would be very careful of taking on agency work on your week off.

I doubt “the company” would be too impressed if they flew you back in to do a 10hr driving shift on your first Sunday and you refuse or got parked up by the authorities as you have already done 30 hours on the agency or for your mate on your week off.

I just wondered.
My O/H would kill me if I started working on my week off after being away for 3 weeks. :confused:

tachograph:

dinosteveus1:
Would anything ‘happen’ if I went over the WTD hours?

For the WTD you are restricted to 60 hours a week working time which does not include breaks, rest or POA, so if you are likely to get close to 60 hours try to use POA or breaks when waiting, this will help to keep your working time hours down.

For the WTD you are also restricted to an average of 48 hours working time over a reference period which is usually 17 weeks.

VOSA are supposed to regulate the WTD but to be honest they don’t have the resources to regulate it effectively.

The 60 hour week is reasonably easy for them to see if your card or charts are checked so it’s probably best to stick to it, to be honest I’ve no idea whether or not they check for the 60 hour week when they do a card/chart check but I imagine they probably do.

Is there a VOSA equivelant in Europe? See, this is another minefield I’m going to have to get a grip with asap. Hands on should make it easier to comprehend, even for meee :blush:

Anybody used this Driver Hour Guard thingy?

14

dinosteveus1:
Is there a VOSA equivelant in Europe?

All countries have their own regulatory body such as VOSA but as I don’t do Euro work I’ll leave it to other who do to say who the regulatory bodies are for each country, though to be honest unless your expecting to do European work soon I would bother too much about it :wink:

dinosteveus1:
Anybody used this Driver Hour Guard thingy?

I don’t use one myself but there is a forum for them here

15

tachograph:

dinosteveus1:
Is there a VOSA equivelant in Europe?

All countries have their own regulatory body such as VOSA but as I don’t do Euro work I’ll leave it to other who do to say who the regulatory bodies are for each country, though to be honest unless your expecting to do European work soon I would bother too much about it :wink:

dinosteveus1:
Anybody used this Driver Hour Guard thingy?

I don’t use one myself but there is a forum for them here

I’m starting on Monday with VdB over at Erp, Netherlands. In at the deep end so to speak. First ever driving job and in Europe. :stuck_out_tongue: I’ll be making a Diary :smiley:

Thanks for the link and help.

16

dinosteveus1:

tachograph:

dinosteveus1:
Would anything ‘happen’ if I went over the WTD hours?

VOSA are supposed to regulate the WTD but to be honest they don’t have the resources to regulate it effectively.

The 60 hour week is reasonably easy for them to see if your card or charts are checked so it’s probably best to stick to it, to be honest I’ve no idea whether or not they check for the 60 hour week when they do a card/chart check but I imagine they probably do.

Is there a VOSA equivelant in Europe? See, this is another minefield I’m going to have to get a grip with asap. Hands on should make it easier to comprehend, even for meee :blush:

The reference period in the UK is either calculated at 26 or 17 weeks dependent on works agreement. Do not worry too much about that, learn EU 561/2006 first. The WTD RTD is not checked at the roadside until everyone is on digital and the analogue is obsolete.

Under Directive 88/599/EEC (3) roadside checks are
confined to daily driving time, daily rest periods, and
breaks. When digital recording equipment is introduced
driver and vehicle data will be stored electronically and
data will be able to be evaluated electronically on the
spot. This should, over time, enable simple checks to be
carried out on regular and reduced daily rest periods and
on regular and reduced weekly rest periods and
compensatory rest.

Is there a VOSA equivalent in Europe? Oh yes, and they make VOSA look like The Samaritans :stuck_out_tongue:

Germany; have B.A.G these are normally former SS, Gestapo and Stasi officers who were considered too violent for that job. :open_mouth:

Belgium use former concentration camp guards and are known as Politie or Rijkswacht. Beware of big fines, and they can make laws up as they see fit :open_mouth:

France; attack you on two fronts, like the god cop bad routine, in France they travel in threes and just when you think you are winning the bad cop over, number three pops up and your troubles begin from that point. apart from that in France, the Douane, (Customs) have exactly the same powers as the traffic police. The CRS are very good shots as these are military police and the ones you should lick their boots if they stop you. :open_mouth:

Italy; It will just cost you lots of money, whatever you do, they build ferraris, maseratis, De Tomaso Panteras and love speed, they just hate foreigners doing any. :laughing:

Spain; avoid the Basque region altogether, print off a map of the various regions of Spain as you will need to book off on your Tacho in the right area, or guess what, it will cost you money. Like the Belgians, they also make up their own laws to pay for their dinners :open_mouth:

As Jill Dando used to say before she was murdered, “Don’t have nightmares” :stuck_out_tongue:

Spanish Regional Map and Codes

AN Andalucía
AST Asturias
C Cantabria
CL Castilla-León
CM Castile-La-Mancha
CAT Cataluña
AR Aragón
CV Valencia
EXT Extremadura
G Galicia
IB Baleares
IC Canarias
LR La Rioja
M Madrid
MU Murcia
NA Navarra
PV País Vasco

17

dinosteveus1:
Thanks Neil, :smiley:
Glad you’re here, you are one of the Drivers that seem to like to leave it to the last minute to either stop for their 45mins or stop for the day. Why is that? If you see somewhere nice to stop at before your time is up why not stop early? Isn’t it ‘safer’ to go under your driving hours than ove

I very rarely go over. Only a couple of times this year so far and they were not as a result of leaving it late to park somewhere. both occasions were due to severe traffic jams following accidents and I ran out of time in the hold up both times, one of which took me over 3.5 hours to go 5 kilometres and put me over before I could find a parking space and I had completed a 45 minute break just an hour before getting stuck. I managed to get a 15 minute break in while in the hold up but was never stationary long enough to get the 30 minutes to go with it, 22 minutes was best I managed. Another occasion I had 1.5 hours available before my day was up but a delay due to an accident put me over by about 10 minutes by the time I got through it and to the first parking place.

I stop whenever I feel like it generally, that may be within a minute or two of when I must stop and other times it could be a couple of hours before I should stop. Sometimes I am aiming for a particular place and because I know how long it takes to get there I can plan it to quite tight margins, other times I just stop when my time is almost up when I am not bothered about the actual location. You have to remember there are many more stopping places over here than in the UK with places often only 5 or 10 kilometres apart, and indeed even less than that so you can usually get somewhere to park within a few minutes of deciding you want to stop. The A1 and A2 autobahns in Germany for instance have so many truck stops just off them you rarely go more than a couple of junctions without either a truck stop, service area or lay-by. Motorways over here have lay-bys on them which we don’t have in the UK.

18

If a driver was working in many countries then I would imagine it would be almost impossible for a foreign enforcement agency to check on the RT(WTD)R averages over the reference period :question:

I think it was geebee45 who said that VOSA only check the tacho regs at roadsides checks.
Non UK enforcement agencies may check for other things but that info will need to come from those who deal with them.

19

ROG:
I think it was geebee45 who said that VOSA only check the tacho regs at roadsides checks.

And he said that with good reason and it doesn’t just apply to VOSA.

Further proof, as if there was any doubt, that you never actually read the regulations and just try to wing it by what other people post on here. :unamused: :unamused:

20

dinosteveus1:
I’m starting on Monday with VdB over at Erp, Netherlands. In at the deep end so to speak. First ever driving job and in Europe. :stuck_out_tongue: I’ll be making a Diary :smiley:

Well done mate hope you enjoy the job :smiley: