Did anyone read the article in t&d by the ex copper regarding the way the digi adds up time driven and what he considered driving time ie the seconds the digi dosent count at traffic lights Ect ect he was saying that basically a digi driver that’s driven 4.5 hrs has actually driven longer .
Yes.
Has anyone been prosecuted using this method? Has it been upheld?
Until I see something verifiable its the Plod equivilant of RDC ■■■■■■■■ as far as I’m concerned.
Punchy Dan:
Did anyone read the article in t&d by the ex copper regarding the way the digi adds up time driven and what he considered driving time ie the seconds the digi dosent count at traffic lights Ect ect he was saying that basically a digi driver that’s driven 4.5 hrs has actually driven longer .
I arrived at Parcel force with 4 Hour 10 min.
Every Time i moved a Lorry Length the Tacho changed my Driving Time at end of the Minute by 1 Minute. I was number 16 in the Queue and when i arrived at Gate i was driving 16 minutes,but did in reality just a minute as i can move a lorry Length in a 5 second.
Tell that the Offica
Where has this muppet plod been? The rules changed in 2011.
Maybe plod needs an annual refresher course, this guy missed out on the last 5………I guess he is an ex-copper for a reason……
Don’t you love it when these so called experts have no bloody clue, what a waste of paper and ink. Surprised though that the editor didn’t catch it, guess he is as thick as the copper is.
F-reds:
Yes.Has anyone been prosecuted using this method? Has it been upheld?
Until I see something verifiable its the Plod equivilant of RDC [zb] as far as I’m concerned.
Why would you get prosecuted if the law has changed, why are we talking about the old pre-2011 rules.
FR, shouldn’t you keep abreast of the regulations if you are actually still driving■■?
Firstly Wheelnutt, I called ■■■■■■■■ on what the article says.
Secondly what happened in 2011■■ Because as far as I’m concerned it was not a change in the definition of what is driving according to the EU drivers hours.
The tachograph is either recording driving or not, it has always done that, the way in which it has done it has changed slightly according to which version you have, but the result is still the same. Your driving time is recorded and measured, and when it reaches a set time you need to have had a break.
This article seemed to imply some sort of cross over between various different rules, and that somehow if I was sitting at a traffic lights or jam, I was somehow still driving, much akin to if I was using a phone at the lights etc.
F-reds:
Firstly Wheelnutt, I called [zb] on what the article says.Secondly what happened in 2011■■ Because as far as I’m concerned it was not a change in the definition of what is driving according to the EU drivers hours.
The tachograph is either recording driving or not, it has always done that, the way in which it has done it has changed slightly according to which version you have, but the result is still the same. Your driving time is recorded and measured, and when it reaches a set time you need to have had a break.
The driving rules didn’t change but how your Tachograph records it did, it now uses the majority rule.
F-reds:
somehow if I was sitting at a traffic lights or jam, I was somehow still driving, much akin to if I was using a phone at the lights etc.
Correct, it all depends on what you were doing before you got to that traffic light. Driving to the light does not mean that it actually records it as driving, it also depends on how long the light stays on red and what mode your tacho reverts to after driving.
That point could show any of the modes.
Post 2011 tachos only show what you did in the majority of that minute, so in effect, the last 31 seconds if only two modes were selected, it gets a bit more complicated if you change it to a third, but if you were driving for 29 seconds going up to the light and you stayed there waiting for it to turn green and let’s say for arguments’ sake your tacho reverts to other work as a standard non driving mode than that run up to the light won’t add to your driving time, it will show as 1 minute of other work.
You could be stuck in a traffic jam and move up only occasionally to close the gap and get a whole break in, not that it was designed originally for that purpose.
If you wanted to you could drive all the way to Scotland without showing a minute of driving time……
I’ve driven 4 hrs 50 minutes once and because it was start stop all the way it only showed up at 4.20 so perfectly legal but had it been and style tacho I’d have needed a break before reaching my destination.
bald bloke:
I’ve driven 4 hrs 50 minutes once and because it was start stop all the way it only showed up at 4.20 so perfectly legal but had it been and style tacho I’d have needed a break before reaching my destination.
Correct, the changes came into effect after lots of lobbying and pressure by the multi drop/inner city couriers and supermarkets. They were very inefficient with the old style tacho.
Wheelnutt - exactly I don’t really understand what your point is. You’ve said absolutely nothing I disagree with. 
I have had a pre 2011 Tacho, and a post. If you drove the exact same route at the same time side by side, they would show 4.5 hours driving at different points. That is not under dispute.
When I read the article, the copper seemed to be saying he could say I had driven for more than 4.5 hours even though the Tacho only shows 4.5 hours, and therefore prosecute me for an offence. If I remember rightly.
My point is, if they give you a calibrated recording device to record your driving time, they cannot then disregard what this recording device says…
F-reds:
Wheelnutt - exactly I don’t really understand what your point is. You’ve said absolutely nothing I disagree with.I have had a pre 2011 Tacho, and a post. If you drove the exact same route at the same time side by side, they would show 4.5 hours driving at different points. That is not under dispute.
When I read the article, the copper seemed to be saying he could say I had driven for more than 4.5 hours even though the Tacho only shows 4.5 hours, and therefore prosecute me for an offence. If I remember rightly.
My point is, if they give you a calibrated recording device to record your driving time, they cannot then disregard what this recording device says…
You are still not getting it, a pre 2011 tacho and a post 2011 tacho would show vastly different driving times, the post 2011 one would show less, you can happily drive for 6 hours and it only showing 4 and a half on the tacho.
So the plod in the article is saying that on the new tachos you can exceed the 4 and a half hours, he forgets to mention though that that is the whole point of the new regs. You were losing too much on the old ones, you could drive for 2 seconds and it gets recorded as 1 minute, the new one you have to move for 31 seconds before it gets recorded as a minute.
Can you not read sweetie? 
The way I read the article was that he was referring to the later type tacho but was saying that in a journey of A to B the time taken to from leaving to arriving should be counted as all driving including all the minites sat at traffic lights Ect ect with the tacho on other work . Just glad I haven’t got a digi tacho .(yet) .
bald bloke:
I’ve driven 4 hrs 50 minutes once and because it was start stop all the way it only showed up at 4.20 so perfectly legal but had it been and style tacho I’d have needed a break before reaching my destination.
You couldn’t have actually been on the move for 4h50, although you may have been ‘at the wheel’ - but that is no more of a trick than if you just parked up at a red light blocking traffic for 30 minutes in the middle of a journey and said “look ma, I’ve recorded 30 minutes of driving as other work”.
“Driving” for drivers hours’ rules purposes must mean the time during which the vehicle is actually being driven onwards, not time at the wheel.
Rjan:
bald bloke:
I’ve driven 4 hrs 50 minutes once and because it was start stop all the way it only showed up at 4.20 so perfectly legal but had it been and style tacho I’d have needed a break before reaching my destination.You couldn’t have actually been on the move for 4h50, although you may have been ‘at the wheel’ - but that is no more of a trick than if you just parked up at a red light blocking traffic for 30 minutes in the middle of a journey and said “look ma, I’ve recorded 30 minutes of driving as other work”.
“Driving” for drivers hours’ rules purposes must mean the time during which the vehicle is actually being driven onwards, not time at the wheel.
Yes, he certainly could have been on the move for 4h 50m but with only 4h 20m driving time recorded. As has been explained further up the thread, if the vehicle is in motion for less than 30 seconds in a given minute then the whole of that minute is recorded as Other Work. If the vehicle is only moved for 25 seconds at a time, with 35 seconds in between movements it would be quite possible to drive the vehicle for an hour or more with no driving time recorded at all.
Rjan:
bald bloke:
“Driving” for drivers hours’ rules purposes must mean the time during which the vehicle is actually being driven onwards, not time at the wheel.
No it doesn’t, any tacho installed after 2011 uses the new rules. Please keep up in the back, the change is five years old. isn’t it time you familiarised yourself with the current tacho rules■■?
When are you going to get its not a change in the rules, just a different way for information to be recorded. And it’s STILL not the point of the article
There are plenty of pre 2011 trucks out there, and their tachos are no less valid. Just different.
F-reds:
When are you going to get its not a change in the rules, just a different way for information to be recorded. And it’s STILL not the point of the article
Yes it is, the copper wants to use the new tachos but the old rules to prosecute us… He is a retired prick that doesn’t understand how the world and its regulations move on.
FFS! If there is a widdle dwiving wheel picture thingy on the pwint out - then that is the time you were dwiving for. If there a widdle cwossed hammers or a widdle picture of a nice comfy bed then it isn’t. They can’t add the cwossed hammers to the dwiving time! Now do you all understand, kiddie-winkies?
Roymondo:
Rjan:
You couldn’t have actually been on the move for 4h50, although you may have been ‘at the wheel’ - but that is no more of a trick than if you just parked up at a red light blocking traffic for 30 minutes in the middle of a journey and said “look ma, I’ve recorded 30 minutes of driving as other work”.“Driving” for drivers hours’ rules purposes must mean the time during which the vehicle is actually being driven onwards, not time at the wheel.
Yes, he certainly could have been on the move for 4h 50m but with only 4h 20m driving time recorded. As has been explained further up the thread, if the vehicle is in motion for less than 30 seconds in a given minute then the whole of that minute is recorded as Other Work. If the vehicle is only moved for 25 seconds at a time, with 35 seconds in between movements it would be quite possible to drive the vehicle for an hour or more with no driving time recorded at all.
Yes I see now, I hadn’t realised that - it’s counter-intuitive that the vehicle can be moved an appreciable distance and yet no driving recorded at all. Slow-moving, stop-start queues are basically now off the driving clock. I wonder, would it be possible to record such queuing as break instead of other work, if the mode is reset to break after each stop?
I notice it would however require an iron discipline to move only for the minority of each calendar minute and thereby take unnatural advantage of this. If you move 25 seconds one minute, and 35 seconds the next, then that would be recorded as one minute each for driving and other work (which is actually correct). Moving 35 seconds each in both minutes would be recorded as 2 minutes of driving (which is more than the reality).
So the lesson for me to remember is, when the queue is moving for less than half of each calendar minute, it is treated as a period of other work rather than driving.