Read in the paper today about a Polish hgv driver who died of a heart attack when some youngster decided he wanted to commit suicide by ramming the rear of the Polish drivers lorry,the result was Liam cousins survived the attempt to kill himself but the poor hgv driver lost his life at the scene with said heart attack,Liam cousins was not even hurt originally but was injured on his leg after he stepped from his car and was struck by another,I realise to reach the state of suicide your mind is probably all over the place,but he survived and if I remember correctly has been charged with dangerous driving,whereas the hgv driver is dead and was probably married with kids as well ,it’s like the train crash in Ufton nervet near Thatcham in the 90s,when some bloke wanted to top himself so parked on a level crossing,the result was him plus 7 dead when the train derailed and turned over
dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -died.html
He’d already tried to kill himself by car. Why was his license not taken away?
Captain Caveman 76:
He’d already tried to kill himself by car. Why was his license not taken away?
You dont need a licence to take a vehicle and attempt personal self conflict - think about it for ffs 
When someone is in a `dark place ’ , licence or no licence makes no odds -they are going to go about their aim irrespective.
trux:
Captain Caveman 76:
He’d already tried to kill himself by car. Why was his license not taken away?You dont need a licence to take a vehicle and attempt personal self conflict - think about it for ffs
When someone is in a `dark place ’ , licence or no licence makes no odds -they are going to go about their aim irrespective.
So that’s good grounds not to take his license off him?
If you’re in the state of mind to commit suicide using a vehicle. Having a licence or not is not going to stop you!
ajt:
trux:
Captain Caveman 76:
He’d already tried to kill himself by car. Why was his license not taken away?You dont need a licence to take a vehicle and attempt personal self conflict - think about it for ffs
When someone is in a `dark place ’ , licence or no licence makes no odds -they are going to go about their aim irrespective.
So that’s good grounds not to take his license off him?
Surely it would be a pointless act. Though I don’t know the full in’s and out’s of motor insurance(with regard to using your vehicle for suicide), but I’m wondering, if he’d had his license removed, took to the road for his suicide attempt, surely he wouldn’t have any insurance to cover the carnage he left behind. I know it would be of little comfort to those 3rd parties, but its still a factor.
I suppose the MIB or whatever they’re called step in then Eddie, same as if you’re suffered at the hands of any uninsured driver.
Suicide is hell, you can’t ever expect any suicide to be thinking rationally as by the very nature of the act they’re reached a point beyond normal comprehension.
So many reasons for it to happen, so many victims and in so many cases the suicide themselves victims of events beyond their control and in some cases which are unjust enough to kill them…i’m thinking about one just small group here, desperate abandoned demonized and bankrupted fathers (and in some cases mothers) but there are unlimited circs where poor buggers have ended up in a place they can see no way out from through no fault of their own, any fight they had left finally beaten out of them and suicide the only peace they can see for themselves.
There is no justice for anyone caught in the fall out of a suicide, its a bloody tragedy all round with no moral winners, maybe the odd financial one but even those few know deep down they pocket the devil’s money.
truckman020:
Read in the paper today about a Polish hgv driver who died of a heart attack when some youngster decided he wanted to commit suicide by ramming the rear of the Polish drivers lorry,the result was Liam cousins survived the attempt to kill himself but the poor hgv driver lost his life at the scene with said heart attack,Liam cousins was not even hurt originally but was injured on his leg after he stepped from his car and was struck by another,I realise to reach the state of suicide your mind is probably all over the place,but he survived and if I remember correctly has been charged with dangerous driving,whereas the hgv driver is dead and was probably married with kids as well ,it’s like the train crash in Ufton nervet near Thatcham in the 90s,when some bloke wanted to top himself so parked on a level crossing,the result was him plus 7 dead when the train derailed and turned over
Had the misfortune to arrive at this scene some thirty mins after the initial accident the next three days are firmly etched in my mind to this day the sound of an unanswered Nokia ringtone can pute right back at the scene which contributed to my eventual nervous breakdown divorce and leaving the railway after 28 very happy years
Agreeing with every post above about not thinking straight if that’s your state of mind.
I’d say if the polish driver had a heart attack as a result of that happening, he would probably not have been far off having a heart attack for a different reason. Not in any way wishing to minimise the effects, it just suggests his ticker was possibly not in the best of health at the time.
I find it very sad that the tone of the report, which is almost word for word what was in the local paper, seems to dismiss the totally innocent victim of this tragedy as unimportant. The impression given is that the collision had no bearing on his death. I hope that it is the wishes of his family which have dictated that his name has never been released. I would hope too that they have not had to fight to be reimbursed fully the cost of his repatriation, funeral expenses and any travel and accommodation costs they will have incurred.
cav551:
I find it very sad that the tone of the report, which is almost word for word what was in the local paper, seems to dismiss the totally innocent victim of this tragedy as unimportant. The impression given is that the collision had no bearing on his death. I hope that it is the wishes of his family which have dictated that his name has never been released. I would hope too that they have not had to fight to be reimbursed fully the cost of his repatriation, funeral expenses and any travel and accommodation costs they will have incurred.
To be fair it probably didn’t. I doubt many people would notice much more than a bit of a jolt if a car ran up the arse of your loaded artic. Sounds like the Polish drivers health was so bad that a tyre blowout would’ve resulted in the same thing happening.
I’m 44, same age as the Polish driver and my health has seen better days. Been seeing the doc recently for some issues I’ve had which have resulted in having full blood tests and other stuff. Doc was surprised that my heart rate and blood pressure were good for a healthy person let alone a porker like myself but my blood tests showed high heading towards diabetic blood sugar levels which was worrying considering I don’t knowingly take much sugar - no tea/coffee, drink diet pop etc. I wonder how many of us are storing up hidden serious health issues like he was.
trux:
Captain Caveman 76:
He’d already tried to kill himself by car. Why was his license not taken away?You dont need a licence to take a vehicle and attempt personal self conflict - think about it for ffs
When someone is in a `dark place ’ , licence or no licence makes no odds -they are going to go about their aim irrespective.
I actually agree with you. I didn’t explain myself in that last post. If someone is so determined to end their life, they will try anything to achieve their aims. The options therefore are limited. You can lock them up for their own protection. Help them end their life in a manner that reduces impact on others, for example truck/train drivers or whoever comes across them. Personally I don’t find either of them options palatable.
Finally, you can put a support system in place, listening schemes, counseling or support workers.
You also need to put barriers to them self harming in place. Removing articles that could be used to self harm, medication, blades, car keys. No system is perfect and you can’t stop the truly determined from ending their life, but there is a responsibility (of the authorities?) to minimise the impact on the general public.
In the sad case above, everyone loses. An innocent man dies and a young man who needs help is criminalised. I hope now he’ll get the help he needs. I sadly doubt it though.
Written by someone with personal experience of depression and suicide.
Cavey.
PS society needs to end the stigma of depression. It’s a debilitating condition that most people don’t appear to understand.
eddie snax:
Surely it would be a pointless act. Though I don’t know the full in’s and out’s of motor insurance(with regard to using your vehicle for suicide), but I’m wondering, if he’d had his license removed, took to the road for his suicide attempt, surely he wouldn’t have any insurance to cover the carnage he left behind. I know it would be of little comfort to those 3rd parties, but its still a factor.
What sort of society do we live in, when people are wondering whether drivers attempting suicide are licenced and insured to do so? Do you wonder if his tyres had the required tread depth too?
The biggest carnage, even for the accountants, is likely to be the loss of human life which has cost hundreds of thousands of pounds to produce (not to mention the years of socialisation and care which aren’t subject to market valuation), and the loss of millions of pounds of productive labour capacity (and not just in respect of the dead man, but also in how it potentially disturbs the lives of the man’s family, friends, and others in the community).
Conor:
cav551:
The impression given is that the collision had no bearing on his death.To be fair it probably didn’t. I doubt many people would notice much more than a bit of a jolt if a car ran up the arse of your loaded artic. Sounds like the Polish drivers health was so bad that a tyre blowout would’ve resulted in the same thing happening.
I would certainly agree about the jolt aspect, but trying to put myself into the unfortunate driver’s position, if I was involved in what would look to be a very serious collision in a foreign country, I would find it extremely stressful. Apart from the sight of mangled wreckage, a probable lack of ability to communicate in the language, there would be the grapevine knowledge that lorry drivers involved in a serious collision in the UK are invariably automatically arrested. The prospect of being jailed overnight while investigations are made by a Police force I know nothing about, but which I might compare to rumour or knowledge of other countries police reputations, would be a very serious concern. I would argue that the stress brought on by worry about being involved in the accident is sufficient to relate the poor man’s death to the collision.
Putting aside the suicide and autism issues, I have a concern that if the roles had been reversed and the Polish driven lorry had rear ended the car without causing major damage, but the young car driver had suffered a heart attack then the charges faced might be more serious.
Latique:
truckman020:
Read in the paper today about a Polish hgv driver who died of a heart attack when some youngster decided he wanted to commit suicide by ramming the rear of the Polish drivers lorry,the result was Liam cousins survived the attempt to kill himself but the poor hgv driver lost his life at the scene with said heart attack,Liam cousins was not even hurt originally but was injured on his leg after he stepped from his car and was struck by another,I realise to reach the state of suicide your mind is probably all over the place,but he survived and if I remember correctly has been charged with dangerous driving,whereas the hgv driver is dead and was probably married with kids as well ,it’s like the train crash in Ufton nervet near Thatcham in the 90s,when some bloke wanted to top himself so parked on a level crossing,the result was him plus 7 dead when the train derailed and turned overHad the misfortune to arrive at this scene some thirty mins after the initial accident the next three days are firmly etched in my mind to this day the sound of an unanswered Nokia ringtone can pute right back at the scene which contributed to my eventual nervous breakdown divorce and leaving the railway after 28 very happy years
Not nice
Rjan:
eddie snax:
Surely it would be a pointless act. Though I don’t know the full in’s and out’s of motor insurance(with regard to using your vehicle for suicide), but I’m wondering, if he’d had his license removed, took to the road for his suicide attempt, surely he wouldn’t have any insurance to cover the carnage he left behind. I know it would be of little comfort to those 3rd parties, but its still a factor.What sort of society do we live in, when people are wondering whether drivers attempting suicide are licenced and insured to do so? Do you wonder if his tyres had the required tread depth too.
You seem to have completely missed the point of the post, it was in answer to those that said the driver should have had his licence removed after a previous incident. As was correctly said, the removal of his licence is unlikly to have acted as any sort of deterrent to somebody who was determined to end their life.
muckles:
Rjan:
eddie snax:
Surely it would be a pointless act. Though I don’t know the full in’s and out’s of motor insurance(with regard to using your vehicle for suicide), but I’m wondering, if he’d had his license removed, took to the road for his suicide attempt, surely he wouldn’t have any insurance to cover the carnage he left behind. I know it would be of little comfort to those 3rd parties, but its still a factor.What sort of society do we live in, when people are wondering whether drivers attempting suicide are licenced and insured to do so? Do you wonder if his tyres had the required tread depth too.
You seem to have completely missed the point of the post, it was in answer to those that said the driver should have had his licence removed after a previous incident. As was correctly said, the removal of his licence is unlikly to have acted as any sort of deterrent to somebody who was determined to end their life.
This is difficult but IF his licence was revoked previously he would not have had a car to use as any sensible parent who he lived with would have taken the keys or sold the car.
I would have without a doubt knowing of his problems and historic attempts of suicide with his mothers car.
3 wheeler:
muckles:
Rjan:
eddie snax:
Surely it would be a pointless act. Though I don’t know the full in’s and out’s of motor insurance(with regard to using your vehicle for suicide), but I’m wondering, if he’d had his license removed, took to the road for his suicide attempt, surely he wouldn’t have any insurance to cover the carnage he left behind. I know it would be of little comfort to those 3rd parties, but its still a factor.What sort of society do we live in, when people are wondering whether drivers attempting suicide are licenced and insured to do so? Do you wonder if his tyres had the required tread depth too.
You seem to have completely missed the point of the post, it was in answer to those that said the driver should have had his licence removed after a previous incident. As was correctly said, the removal of his licence is unlikly to have acted as any sort of deterrent to somebody who was determined to end their life.
This is difficult but IF his licence was revoked previously he would not have had a car to use as any sensible parent who he lived with would have taken the keys or sold the car.
I would have without a doubt knowing of his problems and historic attempts of suicide with his mothers car.
Yep a lot of "If only " in this situation, personally I just feel for the families and friends of the Polish driver, and the family of the lad. 
3 wheeler:
This is difficult but IF his licence was revoked previously he would not have had a car to use as any sensible parent who he lived with would have taken the keys or sold the car.
I would have without a doubt knowing of his problems and historic attempts of suicide with his mothers car.
You may then just displace the problem - it isn’t a solution. He could always just cast himself in front of a bus or a train, and leave that driver traumatised instead. And it may also aggravate the underlying suicide risk, and probably will cause costs elsewhere for the state - if for example losing the car disrupts work or further education.
Juddian:
I suppose the MIB or whatever they’re called step in then Eddie, same as if you’re suffered at the hands of any uninsured driver.Suicide is hell, you can’t ever expect any suicide to be thinking rationally as by the very nature of the act they’re reached a point beyond normal comprehension.
So many reasons for it to happen, so many victims and in so many cases the suicide themselves victims of events beyond their control and in some cases which are unjust enough to kill them…i’m thinking about one just small group here, desperate abandoned demonized and bankrupted fathers (and in some cases mothers) but there are unlimited circs where poor buggers have ended up in a place they can see no way out from through no fault of their own, any fight they had left finally beaten out of them and suicide the only peace they can see for themselves.There is no justice for anyone caught in the fall out of a suicide, its a bloody tragedy all round with no moral winners, maybe the odd financial one but even those few know deep down they pocket the devil’s money.
I hadn’t thought about the MIB.
This is the most meaning full post on this thread, well said Juddian, I fully concur with it all.