suicide

[eddie_snax]

Rjan:

eddie snax:
Surely it would be a pointless act. Though I don’t know the full in’s and out’s of motor insurance(with regard to using your vehicle for suicide), but I’m wondering, if he’d had his license removed, took to the road for his suicide attempt, surely he wouldn’t have any insurance to cover the carnage he left behind. I know it would be of little comfort to those 3rd parties, but its still a factor.

What sort of society do we live in, when people are wondering whether drivers attempting suicide are licenced and insured to do so? Do you wonder if his tyres had the required tread depth too?

The biggest carnage, even for the accountants, is likely to be the loss of human life which has cost hundreds of thousands of pounds to produce (not to mention the years of socialisation and care which aren’t subject to market valuation), and the loss of millions of pounds of productive labour capacity (and not just in respect of the dead man, but also in how it potentially disturbs the lives of the man’s family, friends, and others in the community).

You are either deliberately misrepresenting Me or, just not understanding what I’ve written. My only point, was that to remove his license is not the same as removing his access to a vehicle, or his ability to use it. In the circumstances that a 3rd party, was for instance at the very minor level of loss as a result of the suicides actions, say had their own vehicle written off, then a swift resolution to their claim would remove one area off stress, as they would be dealing with the stress of being present at a scene of carnage left due too the method of suicide.

Rjan:
You may then just displace the problem - it isn’t a solution. He could always just cast himself in front of a bus or a train, and leave that driver traumatised instead. And it may also aggravate the underlying suicide risk, and probably will cause costs elsewhere for the state - if for example losing the car disrupts work or further education.

You seem here, to agree that removing his license would not solve the issue, and mention costs to the State, are the accountants at the treasury, any different to 3rd party members of the public, who may well be struggling to make ends meet.

Why the tirade to my earlier post.

I will add to your list off possible “death by”, to include truck, as happened on the M1 near Leicester 2-3 years ago.

[rjan]

eddie snax:
You are either deliberately misrepresenting Me or, just not understanding what I’ve written. My only point, was that to remove his license is not the same as removing his access to a vehicle, or his ability to use it. In the circumstances that a 3rd party, was for instance at the very minor level of loss as a result of the suicides actions, say had their own vehicle written off, then a swift resolution to their claim would remove one area off stress, as they would be dealing with the stress of being present at a scene of carnage left due too the method of suicide.

I’ve obviously struck too harsh a tone, but it still seems like a very grotesque groove of thinking - as if the man’s final insult to the world was not the carnage, not the horror for the witnesses, not the loss for the victims, but lacking the proper third party insurance for the property damage!

But more I think about it, you’re right. It goes to show the tyranny of our economic insecurity, and how insurance no longer provides any peace of mind but instead how the high priests of underwriting terrorise us with the prospect of losing our no claims, of clawing back every claimed penny in subsequent premiums, and of having our road risk drastically re-categorised even by events outside our control.

How can the loss of a car (or the prospect of claiming on one’s own comprehensive policy) factor as being almost as distressing as a brush with death? And yet we fear it.

Rjan:
You may then just displace the problem - it isn’t a solution. He could always just cast himself in front of a bus or a train, and leave that driver traumatised instead. And it may also aggravate the underlying suicide risk, and probably will cause costs elsewhere for the state - if for example losing the car disrupts work or further education.

You seem here, to agree that removing his license would not solve the issue, and mention costs to the State, are the accountants at the treasury, any different to 3rd party members of the public, who may well be struggling to make ends meet.

Why the tirade to my earlier post.

I will add to your list off possible “death by”, to include truck, as happened on the M1 near Leicester 2-3 years ago.

Indeed. As I say, apologies for the tirade tone.

[peterm]

Commiserations to the families of those involved and sadness for the lorry driver, but what is MIB ?

[juddian]

peterm:
Commiserations to the families of those involved and sadness for the lorry driver, but what is MIB ?

mib.org.uk/

Long winded but will handle the aftermath for the victims of insured drivers.

Useful site in that you can also check that your own cars are insured and physically on the database, i do this a few days after renewal just to check all has gone through ok.
Whether you could use the database to check for the insurance of a vehicle not owned by you would be up to you, as you have to tick an ‘‘owned by’’ you box, but the info might be available kosher for a fee, that bit i haven’t tried.

[eddie_snax]

Rjan:
I’ve obviously struck too harsh a tone, but it still seems like a very grotesque groove of thinking - as if the man’s final insult to the world was not the carnage, not the horror for the witnesses, not the loss for the victims, but lacking the proper third party insurance for the property damage!

But more I think about it, you’re right. It goes to show the tyranny of our economic insecurity, and how insurance no longer provides any peace of mind but instead how the high priests of underwriting terrorise us with the prospect of losing our no claims, of clawing back every claimed penny in subsequent premiums, and of having our road risk drastically re-categorised even by events outside our control.

How can the loss of a car (or the prospect of claiming on one’s own comprehensive policy) factor as being almost as distressing as a brush with death? And yet we fear it.
.

I know that in the face of death and or life changing injury, to think of the loss of some ones transport is grotesque, but to the person who’s mortgage or rent and the subsequently their home is on the line, through being in the wrong place at the wrong time, that’s pure and simple cold hard fact. I used the subject of ones transport, to highlight the smallest of losses that the insurance might be called upon to cover, at the other end, a 3rd party may have life changing injury, requiring financial support, where is that going to come from, the government , they seem hell bent on putting all the disabled into abject proverty

Rjan:
Indeed. As I say, apologies for the tirade tone.

You seem to have understood my line of thinking, and I appreciate that. I can accept a tirade, if I understand why and now I can see you felt that talk of cold hard cash, after such a traumatic event does seem distasteful, and I agree, but it does need raising.

Thanks for the apology, though I wasn’t asking for one, this is an open forum where we should be able to speak frankly.

[truckman020]

Don’t understand why they commit suicide in violent ways,if these people are so intent on killing themselves get a bottle of whisky/ brandy some strong pills and go lay on their bed if they succeed they haven’t hurt anyone but themselves,harsh maybe but true,I have had loads of crap in my life as has a load of people in general,don’t know about others but I just sort it and get on ,life’s too precious no matter what your minds like

[juddian]

truckman020:
Don’t understand why they commit suicide in violent ways,if these people are so intent on killing themselves get a bottle of whisky/ brandy some strong pills and go lay on their bed if they succeed they haven’t hurt anyone but themselves,harsh maybe but true,I have had loads of crap in my life as has a load of people in general,don’t know about others but I just sort it and get on ,life’s too precious no matter what your minds like

Good for you, and good for the vast majority of us that we can look at the horrible things life throws at us and still carry on, shrugg the bad things off or at least learn to live with them.

However unless you’ve been that person and walked in their shoes and lived their hollow unending desperation, you cannot know and should be extremely grateful for that fact, of what drives them to destroy themselves as the only way out for them.

The sane rational person can theorise all they bloody like about how they’d nicely end it all quietly, but the very fact they have reached that point where theorising has long passed and reality has come to visit in harsh enough form they really are going to suicide means rational thought is as dead as they will be.
Those who take the tablet or other shall we say gentle route run the risk of being discovered and stopped, the ones so damaged that they are 100% going through with it use methods there is little to no chance of coming back from.

If you haven’t already realised i know more about this than i would ever have wanted to know in my darkest nightmares, i hope you never learn the same…the pain never leaves, the hurt never goes, time is not the healer that theorisers say it is and the lives of those left are changed forever.

[the-snowman]

I dont even pretend to know the first thing about suicide and the state of someones mind to get to the point that killing yourself is the option you want to take. I understand none of it but I understand enough to know it doesnt sound like you do either truckman.
Im the same as you. Had loads of crap to deal with but deal with it and sort it out but to people who cant deal with it,they need help,not told they’re being selfish.

[muckles]

truckman020:
Don’t understand why they commit suicide in violent ways,if these people are so intent on killing themselves get a bottle of whisky/ brandy some strong pills and go lay on their bed if they succeed they haven’t hurt anyone but themselves,harsh maybe but true,I have had loads of crap in my life as has a load of people in general,don’t know about others but I just sort it and get on ,life’s too precious no matter what your minds like

I have had experience of dealing with somebody intent on ending it all, when their mind is in that state reason goes out of the window. For my mate help was at hand he ended up in hospital and got the help he needed and he had a lot of good mates who didn’t abandon him even when he was pushing them away. That was many years ago and he survived and is much better, although he has bad times and has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder.

Not really sure why it effects some people and others can cope, i heard its to do with chemical changes in the brain, not life knock backs, but then I’ve had a bit of experience working with people who’ve come back from recent conflicts and are suffering from PTSD and for them it might be what they saw or experienced, but then soldiers who served alongside them might be ok.

[truckman020]

The-Snowman:
I dont even pretend to know the first thing about suicide and the state of someones mind to get to the point that killing yourself is the option you want to take. I understand none of it but I understand enough to know it doesnt sound like you do either truckman.
Im the same as you. Had loads of crap to deal with but deal with it and sort it out but to people who cant deal with it,they need help,not told they’re being selfish.

You are quite right snowman,I would not even begin to understand about suicide,never had to deal with it and hopefully never will

[truckman020]

Juddian:

truckman020:
Don’t understand why they commit suicide in violent ways,if these people are so intent on killing themselves get a bottle of whisky/ brandy some strong pills and go lay on their bed if they succeed they haven’t hurt anyone but themselves,harsh maybe but true,I have had loads of crap in my life as has a load of people in general,don’t know about others but I just sort it and get on ,life’s too precious no matter what your minds like

Good for you, and good for the vast majority of us that we can look at the horrible things life throws at us and still carry on, shrugg the bad things off or at least learn to live with them.

However unless you’ve been that person and walked in their shoes and lived their hollow unending desperation, you cannot know and should be extremely grateful for that fact, of what drives them to destroy themselves as the only way out for them.

The sane rational person can theorise all they bloody like about how they’d nicely end it all quietly, but the very fact they have reached that point where theorising has long passed and reality has come to visit in harsh enough form they really are going to suicide means rational thought is as dead as they will be.
Those who take the tablet or other shall we say gentle route run the risk of being discovered and stopped, the ones so damaged that they are 100% going through with it use methods there is little to no chance of coming back from.

If you haven’t already realised i know more about this than i would ever have wanted to know in my darkest nightmares, i hope you never learn the same…the pain never leaves, the hurt never goes, time is not the healer that theorisers say it is and the lives of those left are changed forever.

Point taken juddian