Suffolk Police White Magnum

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

Saratoga:
The Definition of Driving

Under existing law a person may be regarded as “driving” a vehicle while the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary.

This is just about the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever read, I have heard of a car driver being prosecuted for eating an apple whilst stationary at a set of traffic lights and this is right up there with it. What the hell is unsafe in a driver of a stationary vehicle making a call on a hand held ‘device’■■ Would it be safer if the engine was switched off? if so, how??

They could say “he might drive off while still on the phone” well, should I be prosecuted for drink driving cos I’ve got a bottle of Scotch in a carrier bag on the back seat & might be tempted to drink it?? (even though I’m a none drinker!!)

NANNY STATE!!!

Nuff said, Ross.

62

Yes, the Police will even prosecute if you are stationary in a lay-by if you haven’t turned the engine AND IGNITION off, even though it is blatantly obvious to even the most feeble minded person that this does not constitute any danger to anybody whatsoever.

It is as though the Police are determined to criminalise and intimidate people who who do not pose any threat or danger to anybody whatsoever, and it is for this reason that I would never go to the assistance of a Police officer who was being attacked, not even by so much as making a telephone call to summon assistance.

63

Saratoga:
Well, there is a bunch of advice around including such wonders of that if you need to make a call you need to be out of the drivers seat, engine off, handbrake on and if necessary in the passenger seat!!!

However, another I came across was this on the ROSPA site

Rospa Site:
The Law

On 1 December 2003, a law, “The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) (Amendment) (No. 4) Regulations 2003”, came into force to prohibit drivers using a hand-held mobile phone, or similar device, while driving. It also made it an offence to “cause or permit” a driver to use a hand-held mobile phone while driving, or to use a hand-held mobile phone while supervising a driver who only has a provisional licence.

The penalties were initially a fixed penalty of £30 or a fine of up to £1,000 if the offender goes to court (£2,500 for drivers of goods vehicles or passenger carrying vehicles with 9 or more passenger seats). From 27th February 2007, the penalty for using a hand-held mobile phone whilst driving increased to £60 and three penalty points added to the drivers’ licence.
The Definition of a Hand-Held Mobile Phone

The Regulation includes any “device, other than a two-way radio, which performs an interactive communication function by transmitting and receiving data”.

It states that a “mobile telephone or other device is to be treated as hand-held if it is, or must be, held at some point during the course of making or receiving a call or performing any other interactive communication function”. “interactive communication function” includes:

sending or receiving oral or written messages;
sending or receiving facsimile documents;
sending or receiving still or moving images; and
providing access to the internet

There are two exemptions:
2- way “press to talk” radios, such as used by the emergency services and taxi drivers
Using a hand-held phone for a genuine emergency call to 999 or 112 if it would be unsafe for the driver to stop.

The Definition of Driving

Under existing law a person may be regarded as “driving” a vehicle while the engine is running and the vehicle is stationary. The offence applies to all motor vehicles, including motorcycles, but not apply to pedal cycles.

There is quite a bit of information already on that site and of course other links to back up their info.

I could trawl to find the references in the 1988 Road Traffic Act and the Construction & Use Regulations, but I’m not going to right now. Other things need to be done too you know :wink:

I think that’s gotta hit the nail on the head. Stopped at the side of the road on a motorbike with the engine running making a phone call is classed as driving whilst using a handheld mobile phone??
Are you ■■■■■■■■ me?? :unamused:

64

I too think that is OTT but it is what has been ‘understood’ of the regulations. I often stop at the side of the road with hazards on, using a bluetooth ear piece to speak to the customer for site directions and the like. I’m not holding my phone, the handbrake is on and the vehicle is in Neutral.

I’m not driving but I am in charge of the vehicle, but then, even when loading or unloading I am still responsible for and in charge of the vehicle as well. So standing outside the vehicle with it’s engine off and the curtains open and on the phone, that could come under the same thing right?

However. The main reason it ‘started’ was to prevent those drivers from coming distracted whilst on the phone, yet we’re allowed to multi-task other things…

65

Harry Monk:
Yes, the Police will even prosecute if you are stationary in a lay-by if you haven’t turned the engine AND IGNITION off, even though it is blatantly obvious to even the most feeble minded person that this does not constitute any danger to anybody whatsoever.

Blimey Harry that’s got to be a load of bollox.Parked in a lay by on break,reading the paper,with the tele on and/or talking on the phone at the same time,or even stopped for the night sleeping,in midwinter,freezing cold,no night heater,with the engine running to keep warm and some copper bangs on the door and nicks you for using a phone while driving,careless driving and driving without due care and attention etc etc etc. :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

66

Yeah, despite the interpretation of the laws of this country for this thread, I do think this mobile phone one is taken a bit OTT.

  1. If you’re driving, stopped at traffic lights or junctions, manoeuvring etc ON A PUBLIC ROAD then you should NOT be using your mobile for calls, text or anything UNLESS you have a handsfree device, such as a bluetooth or wired earpiece that is not going to interfere with the functions of the vehicle.

  2. Stopped at the side of the road with handbrake on means you could use the phone but as with the H/B and hazards that could constitute you as parked and if you’re on double yellows you could get a ticket too, so yeah, [zb] that.

However, stopped in a layby, or parked at the side of the road and you’re not physically driving shouldn’t be a problem, right?

Or have I got that all wrong?

67

Kent and Medway “Safety” Partnership say this.

The Law

Safety camera vans now enforce mobile phone offences, as well as drivers not wearing a seat belt and speeding motorists.

It is illegal to drive a vehicle and use a hand-held mobile phone or similar device. It is also illegal to supervise a learner driver while using a hand-held phone. ‘Driving’ is also defined as when the engine is running, so pulling into a lay-by and not switching off the ignition, or stopping at traffic lights also counts as driving.

kmscp.org/the-law/mobile-phones.aspx

If I don’t wear a seat belt I pose no danger to anyone else on the road other than myself, and it’s my right to go to the Devil in my own way.

If I am parked in a lay-by making or taking a phone call then I am no danger to anybody, even if I keep the heater running.

Sadly, the vast majority of Police officers (and certainly every one who is ever considered for promotion) are power-crazed thugs who are out to obtain revenge for the way they were bullied at school. Nothing would give the average Police officer more pleasure than to deprive a man of his living.

As I said earlier, I would never consider going to the assistance of a Police officer who was being attacked. There was a time when I would have, but they have now declared war on ordinary citizens, and they have to be prepared to reap what they sow.

68

Harry Monk:
Sadly, the vast majority of Police officers (and certainly every one who is ever considered for promotion) are power-crazed thugs who are out to obtain revenge for the way they were bullied at school. Nothing would give the average Police officer more pleasure than to deprive a man of his living.

As I said earlier, I would never consider going to the assistance of a Police officer who was being attacked. There was a time when I would have, but they have now declared war on ordinary citizens, and they have to be prepared to reap what they sow.

100% true, in my opinion!

69

Harry Monk:
Kent and Medway “Safety” Partnership say this.

The Law

‘Driving’ is also defined as when the engine is running, so pulling into a lay-by and not switching off the ignition, also counts as driving.

They’ve obviously finally lost the plot completely now Harry. :open_mouth:

So the question is what would be the actual charge for being found parked in a lay by with the tele on having fallen asleep at the same time with the engine running on a freezing night in January.It would probably go along the lines of Raus how dare you fall asleep wiz ze engine still running.Ve haf vays of dealing viz zis type of behaviour.If zere iz no night heater zen you must freeze. :open_mouth: :unamused: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

70

Carryfast:
They’ve obviously finally lost the plot completely now Harry. :open_mouth:

So the question is what would be the actual charge for being found parked in a lay by with the tele on having fallen asleep at the same time with the engine running on a freezing night in January.It would probably go along the lines of Raus how dare you fall asleep wiz ze engine still running.Ve haf vays of dealing viz zis type of behaviour.If zere iz no night heater zen you must freeze. :open_mouth: :unamused: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

The pathetic thing is that the UK controls and punishes people for the most minor things on such a large scale in a way that would surely dwarf the meassures to do the same in ■■■■ Germany or any post-war Soviet block country. Yet we still think we are “becoming” like that. We’ve become and gone well beyond that point when it comes to surveillence and rabid and overzealous prosecution by the authorities of the most trivial made up offences. Granted, our authorities dont kill us or send us to the gulag, but the potential for losing your licence, your job and potentially your home/mortage because you’ve been apprehended while eating a twix are almost as draconian.

71

i’m sure i’ve mentioned this before, but i’ll repeat myself just in case any police, vosa, or pcso’s are looking in.

i happen to know some ex police officers, they drink in the same pub as me. and they all regret so much that they did in their careers. they were sucked into a certain mindset, and it wasn’t until they retired and realised what complete pricks they had been for all these years, how many family’s had broken up as a direct or indirect result of their actions. each one of them has a serious drink problem, all except one has been divorced. and with all the problems that they now have the force have washed their hands of them, even though it was the job that made them into the quivering drunken low lifes that they now are.
so if anyone is looking in and thinking they have a cushy job with all the perks of authority, think about your future retirement, your final salary pension won’t go far when half of it is spent on booze. :wink:

72

The simple point is the police should not be allowed to brake the law to see if we are breaking the law.

YOU CAN’T INFORCE THE LAW BY BREAKING THE LAW YOUR INFORCING.

73

JOBE:
The simple point is the police should not be allowed to brake the law to see if we are breaking the law.

YOU CAN’T INFORCE THE LAW BY BREAKING THE LAW YOUR INFORCING.

Of course they can. Otherwise they wouldn’t be able to break speed limits when catching a car speeding or doing a runner from a crime. The police have exemptions for a reason and more often than not have a difficult job to do.

There are bad pennies in all walks of life, but they are still human and have helped me more often than they have hindered me.

74

From that I take it you’re not a copper after all then?

75

Robinhood,you have a valid point,have read the book 1984 by George Orwell,much of what he predicted is part of everyday life in the uk,we have the most cctv cameras in the whole world,but when it comes to justice,the photo is too grainy and you can not make out the suspect?Good business for cctv makers and installers?

76

Goaty:
From that I take it you’re not a copper after all then?

I’m not a copper no. My dad was many moons ago. It’s a thankless job now, not made any easier by the government, stupid laws and lack of opportunity to use their judgement rather than follow the letter of the law.

77

How does the law work,a foreign driver drinks on the ferry coming over,he may be under the legal limit,the staff smell booze on his breath coming off the ferry,by the time he has parked up out of the way in the trailer park,he has swigged from his bottle making him over the limit,then arrested and detained.
On the tv docu,he was let off,as they could not prove much,and had to work out how much time it take to break the booze down by how much he had after leaving the ferry to park up.?

78

limeyphil:
i’m sure i’ve mentioned this before, but i’ll repeat myself just in case any police, vosa, or pcso’s are looking in.

i happen to know some ex police officers, they drink in the same pub as me. and they all regret so much that they did in their careers. they were sucked into a certain mindset, and it wasn’t until they retired and realised what complete pricks they had been for all these years, how many family’s had broken up as a direct or indirect result of their actions. each one of them has a serious drink problem, all except one has been divorced. and with all the problems that they now have the force have washed their hands of them, even though it was the job that made them into the quivering drunken low lifes that they now are.
so if anyone is looking in and thinking they have a cushy job with all the perks of authority, think about your future retirement, your final salary pension won’t go far when half of it is spent on booze. :wink:

We had the CID club in the back room of my dads pub. I recognise all your mates from then. That bloke from the Bill who died was a spitting image, bald, fat and almost permanently ■■■■■■■

I often preach about the laws on this site and explain what they are, but the reason I know what they are, is because I have twisted most of them to my benefit. I don’t condone people on the telephone, because many cant drive for toffee, watch two women on the motorway when they are talking, speeds will drop as low as 30mph in the middle lane as they get to an interesting part, it’s the same with some lorry drivers, as soon as the phone rings their speed drops off.

There are stories about how fast a lorry was travelling and at 56 on a DC it was dangerous. Drivers have lost their skills, to roll a ■■■ whilst managing a 6 speed gearbox, a flask and a two speed axle. There are far more jackknifed lorries and rollovers than ever before because of the skills of modern drivers, or lack of them.

I can read a map whilst driving down a country lane. I can also see far enough ahead to stop if there is a car approaching. I can unscrew the top of a 2 litre coke bottle and place it back on the bunk when i have finished. I can even eat a Kit-Kat with no harm coming to myself or others.

The DCPC or fines will not improve these things, it will just make it easier to bring in new laws, you can bet the next one is no smoking at the wheel, they sneaked that one in for company vehicles, but soon you will not be able to smoke on your annual crawl to Cornwall at 30mph

It sounds as though us old ■■■■■ are better than the youngsters, but in reality, it is the modern lorries that are so much better, they will stop on a penny and have retarders, ABS EBS, ETC, yet still crash, slide or are stuck in a slight snow fall

By the way these police lorries are not new or newsworthy, every force in England have been using them, from Iveco, Volvo, Renault, DAF, Mercedes and Scania.

79

What is the hip flask exit clause mean for a police prosecution mean,it has been mentioned on here?

80

I take both hands off the steering wheel and both feet away from pedals when texting, therefore I’m not driving but merely a passenger in a runaway vehicle. Is this wrong?