Traffic Rat:
Or even it was your loved one that had died in the collision and the police didn’t do a full investigation, you would soon be shouting about it.
The first few hours/days of an investigation are critical. You think we close a road for ‘several’ hours, a murder scene in a street can be closed for days, but No one moans about that just because the M word is used.
At the end of the day someone has died unnaturally and possibly unlawfully killed someone else.
Your having a bad day because you get stuck/diverted, just think about how bad the day is for those who’s loved one’s are not coming home ever again.
That’s what I was wandering, he doesn’t exactly give out a lot of information about it does he, like was it laying in the road, covering the cars or a car, or even covering any of the bodies.
the Specialist vehicle collision unit might be elsewhere, they might not even have a bod in the area due to sickness holiday etc so have to call on a unit from another force…
Fellow brass musicians will be especially saddened to learn that one of the dead passengers was Rod Franks - trumpeter (ex principal) with the London Symphony Orchestra for many years.
That’s what I was wandering, he doesn’t exactly give out a lot of information about it does he, like was it laying in the road, covering the cars or a car, or even covering any of the bodies.
as others have said the road closures have to be put in place for as long as it take to gather all the evidence into the collision, if like me you have had the misfortune of being involved in a fatal collision and then having to appear at a coroners court to give evidence you want to be 100% sure the police have everything correct.
I hasten to add I was not to blame for the accident as the guy over took the vehicles behind me slowing down as I waited to turn right and drove into the back of me on a motorbike, but things take as long as they do and with more than one person dying things get even more complex. and the families of those who died need the facts for closure…
I sit firmly in the ‘takes as long as it takes’ camp tbh.
My Daughter was complaining that I was going to be late home one evening (needed a lift somewhere) on the phone because the motorway (M62 Leeds) was locked down for the best part of 9 hours and when I eventually had a little snap at her and told her someone had died to cause her such an inconvenience it seemed to shake a bit of reality into her.
Since then I never get questioned, it’s just “OK then, I’ll sort something else out.”
Whatever it takes, it takes.
At least if you are there to complain it hasn’t taken your life…
Pimpdaddy:
If people didn’t go causing collisions there would be no roads to close-simples:!:
You should change your signature to ’ biggest tool on trucknet ’ with comments like this one and most of your other antagonistic comments.
If i didn’t know PD was such a urinetaking ■■■■ I’d say that’s the most sensible thing he has said in years
As for questions about the tarpaulin who knows but that may have been ‘the debris’ that fell off a vehicle due to an incompetent selfish twunt.
Also regards the crossover, if investigations haven’t taken place to discover how to prevent it we may have never ended up with the concrete central res now being installed with the commensurate benefits of less fatalities, crossovers & night/daytime congestion causing holdups that will be a thing of the past.
Whilst these are tragic cases, fifteen hours does seem too long to me. I would have thought with modern technology, the investigation time would be quicker than it used to be? Is it therefore a case of not enough traffic police officers? It just seems to me these closure times have increased a lot compared to say ten or fifteen years ago.
The railways and the BTP seem to have it right, after a fatal collision/suicide the railway can be open in two or three hours or so. Even after say a level crossing collision and subsequent investigation they seem to be able to do better than fifteen hours.
Can the highway people not be stood to, ready to jump in as soon as the police have packed up?
You do have to wonder how long the police in Western Europe close their roads for. I do wonder if it’s for the same time.
Obviously things need to be done properly, but to my mind, say the M62 is shut, well, surely the priority, with my cool calm hat on, is to keep the COUNTRY moving? Say the M25 is closed - you are disrupting potentially millions of people, for the sake of an investigation involving maybe three people? Sorry to sound cold but that can’t be right…?
I once had to reverse a bus for about .5 of a mile due to a road closure.A motor cyclist had killed himself after hitting a tree.I would reverse 10 miles if it would have given the guy a second chance.This happened near Blairgowrie and the local roads just could nt take the resultant volume of traffic.
I personally am surprised at the number of idiots that ignored the “A1 Closed” signs, I know its off route and could take a bit longer, but the M18/M1 would have been a much quicker alternative for all involved. (S/B of course, reverse for N/B)
Even going back along the A57 to Worksop if you were going somewhere local to the closure, otherwise A46/A14/A421/M25
This was signposted all the way from Boroughbridge to Cambridge, anyone stuck in this had only themselves to blame.
trubster:
I personally am surprised at the number of idiots that ignored the “A1 Closed” signs, I know its off route and could take a bit longer, but the M18/M1 would have been a much quicker alternative for all involved. (S/B of course, reverse for N/B)
Even going back along the A57 to Worksop if you were going somewhere local to the closure, otherwise A46/A14/A421/M25
This was signposted all the way from Boroughbridge to Cambridge, anyone stuck in this had only themselves to blame.
At work last night, I read our daily incident report, and it said that Notts Police had to ask for mutual aid from South Yorks Police, the area team who operate the Incident Support Units also had to ask for help from the neighbouring area team and HATO’s were asked to assist, I assume because of the all the on-going incidents elsewhere? All this takes extra time, which may have added to the time taken to reopen?
I’ve attended a fatal where we stopped the traffic immediately on our arrival. In doing so, valuable evidence was saved namely glass in the road. Trouble was, this glass was some 600 metres back and its only due to a smart eyed CSI that noticed it that the cause of the collision was determined. Trouble was 600 metres of cars and trucks had to be moved very carefully to avoid destroying the evidence. That took some serious time before the collision could be mapped out. Many forces have plotting equipment that we paid for to speed the process up
At a recent RTC with a life changing injury, the CSI took 4 hours to arrive as he had been on another job. Little known to most people, in one week there were 6 motorcycle crashes, 4 fatal and 2 life changing, you don’t always hear about it so you don’t always realise the delays involved.
Once the decision is made that a road will be closed for a time, many many organisations are involved and advised, signs are set for miles around and all the trapped traffic is turned to try and get people on their merry way ASAP. HATO’s are human too and we all fly and go on holidays, weddings etc, we wouldn’t want to be stuck in it so why should we expect you to be. We have the CLEAR initiative that all the services have subscribed to. This is Collision, Lead, Evaluate, Act and Re-open. This is a typical HA mnemonic but basically means we follow a set of guidelines to get the road open as soon as we can. We push and push the Police all the time we are there to try and get it speeding along, yes that’s right, we push the Police as we really want to get you moving.
I accept the closure for as long as it takes to collate forensic evidence but what do they do differently abroad after a fatal that opens the road a lot earlier?
ossie:
I accept the closure for as long as it takes to collate forensic evidence but what do they do differently abroad after a fatal that opens the road a lot earlier?
I possibly has some thing to do with the way their legal system works,but I don’t know for sure, they might have a different level of evidence required for a conviction
I was involved in a 15 vehicle pile up 2killed they had to wait for a dr to come to the scene to pronounce them dead I stood and watched them being put in body bags it was getting dark on top of shap blowing a blizzard ,the worst day of my driving life the body’s where lying on the hard shoulder in black bags it’s only when your involved and see the devastation of all the smashed vehicle s then police ,ambulance fire brigade you realise how long this can take and you think thank god it’s not me in that bag so if your inconvenienced just think a bout your mrs an kids getting the bad news if it was you
