They can not all be that bad??
NO there arel Lots of companys
with good trailers;IN THE uk…
IT is just that;
the germans when they get a
bee in their bonnet; then you
can only learn to go with the
flow. OR E XCEPT
the consiquences::
Well, maybe I was exaggerating slightly. But still, that is some criteria to reach with every trailer.
If ever there is a nuclear war, and I need a sterile bomb shelter, a German haulage company will be my destination.
NO you will be better off going to SWITZERLAND
and useing one of the numerous shelters that
all homeowners had to build along with
their house .in the years of the cold war.
robB39:
I was fined 320 Euros for doubling up ADR. Two pallets of 45 gal drums 8 on two pallets shrink wrapped and strapped with 6 ratchets. The rest of the load was 45 gal drums of concentrate orange juice sat on deck no pallets and not strapped.
Hi robB39 The document you posted mentions section 7.5.7 of ADR, which I’ve reproduced in English below.
7.5.7 Handling and stowage
7.5.7.1 Where appropriate the vehicle or container shall be fitted with devices to facilitate securing and handling of the dangerous goods. Packages containing dangerous substances and unpackaged dangerous articles shall be secured by suitable means capable of restraining the goods (such as fastening straps, sliding slatboards, adjustable brackets) in the vehicle or container in a manner that will prevent any movement during carriage which would change the orientation of the packages or cause them to be damaged. When dangerous goods are carried with other goods (e.g. heavy machinery or crates), all goods shall be securely fixed or packed in the vehicles or containers so as to prevent the release of dangerous goods. Movement of packages may also be prevented by filling any voids by the use of dunnage or by blocking and bracing. Where restraints such as banding or straps are used, these shall not be over-tightened to cause damage or deformation of the package.
7.5.7.2 Packages shall not be stacked unless designed for that purpose. Where different design types of packages that have been designed for stacking are to be loaded together, consideration shall be given to their compatibility for stacking with each other. Where necessary, stacked packages shall be prevented from damaging the package below by the use of load-bearing devices.
Normally, ADR is used for the international carriage of dangerous goods, but problems will arise when you’re found not to be compliant with ADR, since that means that you are punished as per the equivalent national law in the country concerned.
The mention of “Gefahrgutverordnung Straße und Eisenbahn” is the national German law on the carriage of dangerous goods by road and rail, which is the German equivalent of our CDGUTPER 2007.
The sections of the German law they’ve quoted holds both you and the loader responsible for the offence, I’m afraid. Even from reading your version of this, it seems like they’ve got you over a barrel. (:g: Please forgive the pun. 
)
BTW, the “stuff” you were carrying was:
5530KGS of UN3082 ENVIRONMENTALLY HAZARDOUS LIQUID N.O.S., 9 PGIII
and
440KGS of UN1993 FLAMMABLE LIQUID N.O.S., 3 PGIII
N.O.S. = Not Otherwise Specified.
I can translate the document you’ve posted, but having read it and knowing ADR, I can tell you that a translation won’t help you. Let me know if you still need this please. 
brit pete:
TRY LOOKING THROUGH this one I
have put it at the place you need to read well worth a lookHope this helps,
Hi brit pete, that would help if you’re loading paper for UPM Kimmene, because it’s their company policy. IT’S NOT THE LAW.
As we all know, ADR is quite strict on the securing of loads, but I’ve already reproduced the part on securing loads. Nowhere does it specify anything about the trailer being able to bear the weight of a loaded FLT for instance.
Is this a re-run of the law Vs. company policy, like in the drivers’ hours discussion 
Ignorance is not accepted ;;
for a insecure load and if i can by showing the
tips that i have posted here and on the useful
links site prevent perhaps just one person being
done for a insecure load then it is correctt IF you
look on the web and put ““LADUNGS SICHERUNG””
and just troll through the sites, over here in germany
trailers are being built for specific work as regards
carraige of paper,steel, chemicals,etc etc,
All loads require differant ways to ensure that they
stay on the veicle ,AS for the firm not quoteing about
weither a FLT will be able to go inside a trailer
MANY paperfirms load from the side, also the trailers
used to carry goods are so far i know from personal use
capable of haveing a FLT in the back,
plus this was the first one i found that
had a good translation from german
into english,
try this one.
LINK
OR HERE
JUST look through the sites
brit pete:
Ignorance is not accepted ;;
for a insecure load and if i can by showing the
tips that i have posted here and on the useful
links site prevent perhaps just one person being
done for a insecure load then it is correctt IF you
look on the web and put ““LADUNGS SICHERUNG””
and just troll through the sites, over here in germany
trailers are being built for specific work as regards
carraige of paper,steel, chemicals,etc etc,
All loads require differant ways to ensure that they
stay on the veicle ,AS for the firm not quoteing about
weither a FLT will be able to go inside a trailer
MANY paperfirms load from the side, also the trailers
used to carry goods are so far i know from personal use
capable of haveing a FLT in the back,
Yes brit pete,what you’ve put is all true, but to post that just after somebody has been done for failing to secure dangerous goods is misleading IMHO. What you put tends to suggest that the ability to to have a loaded FLT on the trailer deck is a requirement, I’m only saying that it isn’t. I’ve already posted what ADR says on the subject, and it’s no different in the German version. The idea that a trailer deck has to be capable of supporting a given weight ISN’T in ADR.
I do agree that ignorance isn’t accepted and that the Germans take the securing of loads very seriously indeed…
The thing about ADR is that it says what you must do plus it usually gives tips or examples on how it can be achieved. I think it’s written in a straigtforward way, so there’s not much room for doubt.
brit pete:
plus this was the first one i found that
had a good translation from german
into english,try this one.
LINK
That’s a brilliant example of why I always suggest that “Google” type translations aren’t much good.
brit pete:
OR HEREJUST look through the sites
That’s a first-class site with plenty of good pictures.
Thanks Dave,
I have a copy of ADR rules.
You can get it off the UN web site.
The load in question was 4 barrels on a pallet, 2 pallets on deck wrapped, 2 on top wrapped. 2 empty pallets placed over top to stop straps going between barrels and strapped with one strap. 2 empties placed front and back to stop traps slipping down or distorting barrels and strapped with another two straps to prevent forward and backwards movement.
The rear barrels of orange were strapped with two straps.
The police said that they were not happy about ADR being doubled up. Tested the straps with some kind of newton meter and said they were not tight enough. You could not physically get them any tighter. I tried to explain that they would only crush the empty pallets on top.
They insisted that another strap but put over the top pallets; -which I did.
They then said the drums of orange sat on the deck should also be strapped as they were traveling with a load of ADR??!!
I asked them how should I do that?
They had me put the rest of the straps I had over every four barrels until I had run out, 17 straps in all. Then said because of the ‘loose’ barrels I should have 40 straps on the load (dickenkopfs.)
The only way those barrels sat on the deck would move is if I rolled the truck!!■■
Now along comes the fine a couple of months later. Stating that I had the right to appeal within 14 days. No not 14 days from receiving letter 14 days from them posting it and then it must be in Kroutensprakt (German)?!
They stated in English it was an administrative fine for contravention of ADR 7.5.7
The bit in German above; I guessed, stated how I had contravened it.
I sent them a letter stating that seeing as I couldn’t read or write German how was I to make an appeal. That this was in violation of my human rights to to have the whole case in my language and be able to make a defense in my language. Which is the best and one of the most spoken languages in the world by-the-way. 
I received another copy of the fine a few months later entirely in German with a further 20E banged on top for their trouble.
So I sent them another letter stating if they don’t send in English what I was supposed to have done wrong and how, (as you can’t say you have contravened ADR paragraph whatever without explaining how.) our next correspondence would be through the European courts. I have not heard anything from them for about 6 months now. So they can go frikadellen their bratwursts.
I would appreciate a translation, then I will write to them again with my appeal.
I still subscribe to the idea that you wouldn’t carry an unsecured load on a flat trailer so a piece of pvc is hardly a load restraint.
It may have webbing straps, it may have a mesh in the curtain. that is there to allow you to make the fabric taut and to help keep scumbags out.
I loaded in the uk this week with 26 pallets of coffee jars. I cant strap over them so have to strap round the pallets or through them if they are double stacked.
Later on in the week I was pulled into a major control on the E40 at Oostende. After dipping my fuel and checking all paperwork I was sent round to the black hand gang to check load restraint. I had used 7 straps to restrain 2 Bobcats although 4 of them were to prevent damage to paintwork. The guys were happy with my restraint but then sent me round to the x ray scanner after they had climbed all over my load.
On speaking with the Krout officer, name; Heir, E ■■■■■■
Their position is; All ADR strapped (every item) all loads with ADR strapped. Any ‘steel’, large machines or machine parts (even if secured) not to be loaded near IBCs as any movement will cause them to puncture. Any pallets ‘doubled up’ on others any height all must be strapped. Nothing doubled on hazardous.
Eg
“We’ve just a few boxes to handball onto your IBCs they’re only light” your answer “NO WAY PEDRO” 
robB39:
On speaking with the Krout officer, name; Heir, E ■■■■■■Their position is; All ADR strapped (every item) all loads with ADR strapped. Any ‘steel’, large machines or machine parts (even if secured) not to be loaded near IBCs as any movement will cause them to puncture. Any pallets ‘doubled up’ on others any height all must be strapped. Nothing doubled on hazardous.
Eg
“We’ve just a few boxes to handball onto your IBCs they’re only light” your answer “NO WAY PEDRO”
ADR doesn’t forbid the stacking of dangerous goods.
You have a PM. 
@
diesildave try telling that to the policeman over here he will tell
you something else,
@ROB B 39 try sending a e-mail to the office which
sent you the fine, one point here is that the dutch
and the belgians also do not translate their mail into
english /german when you get caught ,have you
enquired by FAIRTRAILS ABROAD if you have a
rightto the letter being in english, i maybe wrong
but it is up to you to translate the letter ,we only get letters
in FRENCH;DUTCH etc from the relavant offices when
one of drivers gets caught out in a countryoutside of
GERAMNY;
have a look through this-- IT HAS SOME examples
of load restraint, please read through to the end,
,link
or
.
THEparagraph posted below
is the reason why i belive you
should just pay the fine as the
enforcement office in germany
will have enough information
to ensure that you have no
chance ,
—erantwortlichkeit des Absenders und des Frachtführers
Extremsituationen) durch Lageveränderung des Fahrzeugs weder GüMit dem 01.07.1998 führte das Transportrechtsreformgesetz (TRG) ein neues Frachtrecht in das Handelsgesetzbuch (HGB) ein und hob dafür die alten Bestimmungen der KVO und des AGNB auf. Für den Absender und den Frachtführer (Spediteur) enthält es im § 412 HGB die Verpflichtung zur beförderungssicheren Verladung des Gutes und zwar unabhängig von der Art des Gutes und von der Transportentfernung. Das Gesetz lehnt sich eng an das „Übereinkommen über den Beförderungsvertrag im internationalen Straßengüterverkehr (CMR)“ an.
Zur beförderungssicheren Verladung gehört als Verpflichtung des Absenders das Stapeln, Stauen, Verzurren, Verkeilen, Verspannen und Sichern der Ladung, sodass bei normaler, vertragsgemäßer Beförderung (auch in ter noch Fahrzeug beschädigt werden.
Zur betriebssicheren Verladung gehört als Verpflichtung des Frachtführers die Gestellung eines geeigneten Fahrzeugs. Dieses muss unter Beachtung der vorgeschriebenen Abmessungen, Gewichte und Achslasten in der Lage sein, das Transportgut bei normaler, vertragsgemäßer Beförderung (auch in Extremsituationen) verkehrssicher zu transportieren.
IN plain english YOU; and the LOADER are responsible
for ensureing that load conforms to the required
load lashing regulations, as posted early on
IGNORANCE is not excepted as a excuse,
My translation of the scanned doc below.
Posted into the forum by kind permission of robB39
GGVSE §10 Nr 17
§ 10 Ordnungswidrigkeiten
Ordnungswidrig im Sinne des § 10 Abs. 1 Nr. 1 des Gefahrgutbeförderungsgesetzes handelt, wer vorsätzlich oder fahrlässig…
17. entgegen § 9 Abs. 13 eine Vorschrift über die Beladung oder die Handhabung nicht beachtet,
GGVSE § 10 Offences
Whoever deliberately or carelessly contravenes dangerous goods transport law shall be guilty of an offence, …
17. against § 9 Abs. 13 failed to comply with a regulation concerning loading or handling.
GGVSE
§ 9 Pflichten
(13) Der Verlader und der Fahrzeugführer haben im Straßenverkehr die Vorschriften über die Beladung und die Handhabung nach Kapitel 7.5 ADR zu beachten.
GGVSE § 9 Obligations
(13) In road transport, the loader and vehicle driver must observe/obey the regulations concerning loading and handling in chapter 7.5 of ADR.
[Joint responsibility]
ADR 7.5.7:
Handling and stowage7.5.7.1 Where appropriate the vehicle or container shall be fitted with devices to facilitate securing and handling of the dangerous goods. Packages containing dangerous substances and unpackaged dangerous articles shall be secured by suitable means capable of restraining the goods (such as fastening straps, sliding slatboards, adjustable brackets) in the vehicle or container in a manner that will prevent any movement during carriage which would change the orientation of the packages or cause them to be damaged. When dangerous goods are carried with other goods (e.g. heavy machinery or crates), all goods shall be securely fixed or packed in the vehicles or containers so as to prevent the release of dangerous goods. Movement of packages may also be prevented by filling any voids by the use of dunnage or by blocking and bracing. Where restraints such as banding or straps are used, these shall not be over-tightened to cause damage or deformation of the package.
7.5.7.2 Packages shall not be stacked unless designed for that purpose. Where different design types of packages that have been designed for stacking are to be loaded together, consideration shall be given to their compatibility for stacking with each other. Where necessary, stacked packages shall be prevented from damaging the package below by the use of load-bearing devices.
Here’s the translation of the page you gave.
I can’t speak for the rest, but I’ve noticed that you’ve only given page 2.
Die Ladung war nicht so gesichert, dass sie ihre Lage zueinander oder zu den Wänden des Fahrzeuges nicht verändern konnte. Die Fässer mit dem Gefahrgut standen teilweise ungesichert auf Holzpaletten. Es wurden nur drei Zurrgurte benutzt, die ohne Vorspannkräfte waren. Antirutschmatten waren nicht vorhanden.
The load was not secured so that the orientation of its component parts couldn’t alter in relation to each other or to the walls of the vehicle. Some of the drums containing the dangerous goods were not secured on the pallets. There were only three straps used, which were insufficiently tensioned. Anti-slip mats were not present.
Es wurden befördet:
5.530 kg UN 3082 UMWELTGEFÄRDENDER STOFF, FLÜSSIG, N.A.G., Kl. 9, III ADR
440 kg UN 1993 ENTZÃœNDBARER FLÃœSSIGER STOFF, N.A.G., Kl. 3, III ADR
The following [dangerous goods] were being carried:
5,530 kg of UN 3082 ENVIRONMENTALLY HAZARDOUS SUBSTANCE, LIQUID, N.O.S., CLASS 9, PG III
440 kg of UN 1993 FLAMMABLE LIQUID, N.O.S., CLASS 3, PGIII
Ihre am Kontollort abgegebene Erklärung, Sie glaubten, eine genügende Ladungssicherung vorgenommen zu haben, entlastet Sie nicht.
Your explanation, that you believed you had used sufficient load securing devices, given at the time you were checked, does not exonerate you.
Laut den mitgeführten Beförderungsunterlagen war Ihnen bekannt, dass Sie gefährliche Güter transportierten.
According to the transport documents [that were present] it was known to you that you were transporting dangerous goods.
Die Beförderung von gefärlichen Gütern erlegt allen am Transport beteiligten Personen eine besondere Sorgfaltspflicht auf.
The transport of dangerous goods places a special duty of care on all persons taking part in the transport chain.
Die einzelnen Teile einer Ladung von gefährlichen Gütern müssen auf dem Fahrzeug so verstaut und durch geeignete Mittel so gesichert werden, dass sie ihre Lage zueinander und zu den Wändern des Fahrzeugs nicht verändern können.
The individual elements of a load of dangerous goods must be stowed and secured on the vehicle in such a way that their orientation to each other or to the walls of the vehicle cannot alter.
Für den Transport wurde ein ‘Curtainsider’ ohne bordwände verwendet. Dabei stellt die Plane selbst keine Ladungssicherung dar.
For this transport, a curtainsider without sidewalls was used. Used in this way, the curtains of a curtainsider (when used alone) do not count as a load securing device.
Bei verladung auf einem Curtainsider muss die Ladung — insbesondere Gefahrgut — direct an dem Boden mit Spanngurten befestigt werden, da die Konstruktionen bei auftretenden Fliehkräften durch plötliche Bremsung oder bei Ausweichmanövern die Ladung nicht halten kann.
When loading a curtainsider, the load —especially dangerous goods- must be placed directly on the floor and be secured by tensioned straps, because that construction (the curtains of a curtainsider) cannot hold the load securely when centrifugal forces increase due to sudden braking or swerving.
Als Kraftfahrer im grezüberschreitenden Güterkraftverkehr sind Ihnen die anzuwendenden Bestimmungen bekannt, beziehungsweise hätten Ihnen bekannt sein müssen.
As an international commercial (professional) driver, the requirements are known to you, or should have been known to you.
Sollten Ihnen diese nicht bekannt gewesen sein, hätten Sie die Pflicht gehabt, sich vor Antritt der Fahrt mit diesen Vorschriften vertraut zu machen. Dies haben Sie offensichtlich unterlassen.
If these requirements weren’t known to you, you had the responsibility to familiarise yourself with them before you set off. You obviously didn’t do this.
Da Sie Ihren berufsbezogenen Pflichten nicht mit hinreichender Sorgfalt nachgenommen sind, haben Sie die Ordnungswidrigkeit zumindest fahrlässig begangen. Es war die Festzetzung einer Geldbuße gegen Sie erforderlich.
Since you didn’t carry out your professional duties with sufficient care, you have committed, at least, the offence of carelessness. For that reason, (the setting of) a fine against you was necessary.
Die Geldbuße wurde auf der Grundlage der Richtsätze des von den Behörden des Bundes und der Länder einheitlich angewendeten Bußgeldkataloges bemessen.
The level of fine was arrived at by reference to the unified National and State fines/offences catalogue.
robB39, as posted before, it will save you
from haveing very large problems the next time
you get stopped and checked if you write and explain
to the enforcement office ,in what ever language you
wish that you will- or -have payed the fine, and trust that
they are happy with that.,mate.
all that lovely paderborn beer gone down the drain
it really nice beer.
i have had a good try at trying out all the german beers and failed.
theres too many breweries there to get around all of them.
its still all i drink,german beer, and have found local specialist off licenses that stock the various brands.
no hangovers.
the rheinheitgeboten 1516 law,no chemicals in the beer.
i often wonder what chemicals were they putting in the beer in 1516.
HERE below is a link to a site which
will help when you are doing your
load restraint, use the 2006 download
mentioned as well,
READ ALL 3 PARTS OF THE SITEwell worth it,
brit pete:
HERE below is a link to a site which
will help when you are doing your
load restraint, use the 2006 download
mentioned as well,READ ALL 3 PARTS OF THE SITEwell worth it,
That’s a great site Pete.
I’ve had a look and now added it to my favourites, so cheers for that.
bordwände verwendet.
Does this mean without side ‘walls’ or side boards?
If it says without sideboards it is a complete lie. Typical of kroutendickenkopfs out to zb the English, racist zbs!!!
Must have been the anniversary of us fire bombin’ Dresden or summat like that?!
robB39:
bordwände verwendet.
Does this mean without side ‘walls’ or side boards?If it says without sideboards it is a complete lie. Typical of kroutendickenkopfs out to zb the English, racist zbs!!!
Sorry robB39, there’s no easy way to say this. 
From my post above
dieseldave:
Für den Transport wurde ein ‘Curtainsider’ ohne bordwände verwendet. Dabei stellt die Plane selbst keine Ladungssicherung dar.
For this transport, a curtainsider without sidewalls was used. Used in this way, the curtains of a curtainsider (when used alone) do not count as a load securing device.
Sorry again robB39, but you can’t cherrypick which words you’d like translated, because you’d lose the context that way. (Especially with German.)
ohne = without
Bordwände = sidewalls (Sorry, my mistake, that word should be written with a capital letter to start.)
verwendet = used (as in “employed.”)
This was my initial reaction as soon as I skim-read the police statement:
dieseldave:
Even from reading your version of this, it seems like they’ve got you over a barrel. (:g: Please forgive the pun.
Sorry mate.
@robB39; If you are going to contest the fine,please do yourself
a favour and get a lawyer-soliciter, the longer you take to either pay any fines
set or to contest the fine,
Means that you will find the said, fine may be increased,plus they will
also charge handling fees for doing the paper work,If you ““ARE NOT””
going to pay the fine be prepared when you next visit Germany and
get stopped and checked, the chances are,the following action may
be taken,YOU COULD FIND YOURSELF being ARRESTED??
OR–AND a higher fine being set,one that reflects how serious
they(germans) belive the offence was that you were charged with.
Rob,make sure that any legal represenative you approach is
fully conversent.with the german language,and the german
law system,Why because if not you will more than likely
end up paying even more of a fine,