Reef:
Just pop down to your local builders yard and try and push one over
I’m not a mathematician and I’ll never pretend to be one, I don’t have (and nor will I “Google”) figures, just from my own personal experience they stay put, perhaps I shouldn’t have used the word “very” in my last post, I don’t know, but that’s down to a grammatical error more than a lack of experience.
Yep I fully take on board what you say about bricks not being smooth, but that doesn’t necessarily equate to a high coefficient of friction. But . . . I am thinking this is where the trick lies - the textured surface.
ajt:
As for shouldn’t be using a flat, what a load of tripe. In the event of a accident 99% of loads would be at risk of shifting off a vehicle no matter what the restraint - and their usually on flats / curtains as they are back loads.
The issue of securing a bundle of bricks using a strap has noting to do with withstanding the forces of a collision or roll over etc.The fact remains if you strap a bundle of bricks on a flat then the load security is totally dependent on the banding or wrapping that holds the brick bundle together.
shep532:
I spoke to drivers at a builders merchants who basically said bricks/block tend to stay put but when they do go they go suddenly and fast. I would have thought that was down to driving style. They had steel caged sides to keep them in when they scatter - and the sides were quite battle scarred/bent/dinged. The drivers generally agreed it was an ‘every now and then’ occasion when they had to pick up bricks and restack.
That was also my experience of hauling bundles of bricks and slabs.The definition of ‘suddenly’ and ‘fast’ usually meant when the banding or wrapping that holds the bundles together and/or on their pallets let’s go scattering the load.Which obviously counts out the use of flats if anyone has any sense.I’d guess that you wouldn’t have found any of those drivers who would have been happy to trust strapping such bundles on a flat.As for driving stile more like the fact that the banding or wrapping generally isn’t strong enough to to withstand the forces of a bundle of bricks acting in unison against it.While when it let’s go and the bundle has then scattered it’s a case of relying on the containment provided by cage or drop sides.Which obviously isn’t there in the case of a flat.
Reef:
I used to do up all of the buckles on my curtainsider (none of this namby pamby load bearing certified crap either) when pulling a load out of that place on the A4 between Theale and Thatcham, what more do you want!
Marley or the Thermalite depots
Back in the fifties when my father drove for Thermalite; the four wheeled Bedfords and Leyland Comet artics had dropsides but the Foden eight leggers were just flats with a tailboard. Marston brick had plenty of flats and they carted millions of bricks over the years without littering the countryside with them. Locally to me Butterley Brick trucks had caged sides and a mid mounted Hiab so useless for general haulage but obviously ideal for ‘their’ type of work. Blocks from Ballidon mainly went out netted apart from a few hauliers who had caged sides, one size doesn’t suit everyone!
Reef:
I used to do up all of the buckles on my curtainsider (none of this namby pamby load bearing certified crap either) when pulling a load out of that place on the A4 between Theale and Thatcham, what more do you want!
Marley or the Thermalite depots
Back in the fifties when my father drove for Thermalite; the four wheeled Bedfords and Leyland Comet artics had dropsides but the Foden eight leggers were just flats with a tailboard. Marston brick had plenty of flats and they carted millions of bricks over the years without littering the countryside with them. Locally to me Butterley Brick trucks had caged sides and a mid mounted Hiab so useless for general haulage but obviously ideal for ‘their’ type of work. Blocks from Ballidon mainly went out netted apart from a few hauliers who had caged sides, one size doesn’t suit everyone!
Pete.
When I read this I was thinking of that explosive stuff. But that’s Thermite isn’t it?
windrush:
Locally to me Butterley Brick trucks had caged sides and a mid mounted Hiab so useless for general haulage but obviously ideal for ‘their’ type of work. Blocks from Ballidon mainly went out netted apart from a few hauliers who had caged sides, one size doesn’t suit everyone!
Pete.
It would be fair to say that a decent drop sider allows both safer brick carrying capability.While also being fine for general haulage ability in a similar way that a tilt is as good as a curtain sider or a flat for general haulage.
windrush:
Locally to me Butterley Brick trucks had caged sides and a mid mounted Hiab so useless for general haulage but obviously ideal for ‘their’ type of work. Blocks from Ballidon mainly went out netted apart from a few hauliers who had caged sides, one size doesn’t suit everyone!
Pete.
It would be fair to say that a decent drop sider allows both safer brick carrying capability.While also being fine for general haulage ability in a similar way that a tilt is as good as a curtain sider or a flat for general haulage.
As somebody who used a tilt on multi drop general haulage, I don’t understand your analogy, it would make the job far harder than it needed to be. But I did get a perverted pleasure from trying to side strip a tilt as quick as somebody else could open their curtiansiders, I don’t think I ever managed it though.
kept me fit back in those days I had far fewer aches and pains to worry about whilst I was leaping around the trailer, smashing the crap out of a properly ceased up side post, to get it to swing out of the way. Ah! Fond memories
Done loads of bricks on both curtiansiders and flats, normally it was backloads, used to use nets and straps on a flat. Never lost a pack even if the banding failed. The drops sides were used by the specialist brick hauliers, but the main advantage that I saw was speed of loading and unloading as they didn’t mess about with nets.
As for us having drop sides, might have caused a problem with the other loads we hauled, such as steel sections for buildings which were often abnormal loads as they could be wider or longer than the trailer or both. Or round timber or even delevering the sawn timber.
windrush:
Locally to me Butterley Brick trucks had caged sides and a mid mounted Hiab so useless for general haulage but obviously ideal for ‘their’ type of work. Blocks from Ballidon mainly went out netted apart from a few hauliers who had caged sides, one size doesn’t suit everyone!
Pete.
It would be fair to say that a decent drop sider allows both safer brick carrying capability.While also being fine for general haulage ability in a similar way that a tilt is as good as a curtain sider or a flat for general haulage.
As somebody who used a tilt on multi drop general haulage, I don’t understand your analogy, it would make the job far harder than it needed to be. But I did get a perverted pleasure from trying to side strip a tilt as quick as somebody else could open their curtiansiders, I don’t think I ever managed it though.
I didn’t mean that a tilt was easier and quicker to use than a curtain sider.I just meant that a drop sider makes a better general haulage wagon than a flat makes a brick carrier.
Having said that,as I’ve said elsewhere,except for over head loading jobs,like a curtain sider,a tilt still made for an easier to use general haulage wagon than having to sheet a flat did.Especially on that local work.
I carry concrete blocks on pallets, and we use corner boards with one to every two packs of blocks, and when they are strapped down, believe me they do not move. Some hauliers use one board to every 3 packs, and one strap, which I think isn’t sufficient.
As for metal panel sides on some of the older brick trailers, and half curtains on the newer ones, the official line is they are only their for decoration, not to hold the load on the trailer.
For anyone suggesting that there is a very low drag coefficient with bricks there is a simple test to try; simply walk to the side of your house, place your face against your brick wall and then set off at a brisk walk! Please post results here.
the maoster:
For anyone suggesting that there is a very low drag coefficient with bricks there is a simple test to try; simply walk to the side of your house, place your face against your brick wall and then set off at a brisk walk! Please post results here.
The analogy would be more like build a brick zb house on the load deck of a truck then accelerate from the lights and stop at the next set and then see how much of it is still standing.Even when all the bricks are stuck together with mortar.
the maoster:
For anyone suggesting that there is a very low drag coefficient with bricks there is a simple test to try; simply walk to the side of your house, place your face against your brick wall and then set off at a brisk walk! Please post results here.
You can’t compare skin against brick with brick against brick - however thanks to google look at this
So if we take the brick on brick of 0.65. If we had 1.5t pack of 500 bricks (guessing at this) loaded away from the headboard. The DFT code of practice says we need to secure it to 1g forward and 0.5 sideways.
That means it is unlikely to slide sideways even under extreme cornering as the friction is greater than the force but it could go forwards.
One standard strap with STF 350 daN with one ratchet on one side would supply a tension force of 341daN - so with a 45 degree strap angle the BSEN 12195-1 standard means it’d take 2.1 straps to achieve the 1g forward.
But of course that means the 2.1 straps would actually round up to 3 with the standard 1.25 safety factor. Those 3 straps would not apply a downforce to all bricks unless edge/corners are used so we’d be relying on the wrap/Banding and there lies the problem.
Also, it wouldn’t take much of a bump for the friction between bricks to be lost.
I am surprised at a coefficient of friction of 0.65 though
shep532:
So if we take the brick on brick of 0.65. If we had 1.5t pack of 500 bricks (guessing at this) loaded away from the headboard. The DFT code of practice says we need to secure it to 1g forward and 0.5 sideways.
That means it is unlikely to slide sideways even under extreme cornering as the friction is greater than the force but it could go forwards.
One standard strap with STF 350 daN with one ratchet on one side would supply a tension force of 341daN - so with a 45 degree strap angle the BSEN 12195-1 standard means it’d take 2.1 straps to achieve the 1g forward.
But of course that means the 2.1 straps would actually round up to 3 with the standard 1.25 safety factor. Those 3 straps would not apply a downforce to all bricks unless edge/corners are used so we’d be relying on the wrap/Banding and there lies the problem.
Also, it wouldn’t take much of a bump for the friction between bricks to be lost.
I am surprised at a coefficient of friction of 0.65 though
I thought the exact same thing…
But I couldn’t get on to post it because I was trying to coax Corbyn (my cat) out of the scullery.
Santa:
Back in the 1950s I worked in a small brick factory. We were on piecework and paid half-a-crown a thousand bricks, which worked out to about £12 a week. when we weren’t making them, we would go outside and help load lorries, which were all rigid flatbeds with a fixed tailgate and a side rave. Bricks were manually stacked directly on the bed (no pallets) in a pattern, with the outer rows tilted up on the side rave. We worked as a team, passing bricks, four at a time, from hand to hand.
When the lorry was fully loaded, we helped the driver throw a net over them and off he would go. As far as I know, they never lost any.
That’s exactly how we did it, minus the fixed tailgate.
Reef:
I used to do up all of the buckles on my curtainsider (none of this namby pamby load bearing certified crap either) when pulling a load out of that place on the A4 between Theale and Thatcham, what more do you want!
Marley or the Thermalite depots
Back in the fifties when my father drove for Thermalite; the four wheeled Bedfords and Leyland Comet artics had dropsides but the Foden eight leggers were just flats with a tailboard. Marston brick had plenty of flats and they carted millions of bricks over the years without littering the countryside with them. Locally to me Butterley Brick trucks had caged sides and a mid mounted Hiab so useless for general haulage but obviously ideal for ‘their’ type of work. Blocks from Ballidon mainly went out netted apart from a few hauliers who had caged sides, one size doesn’t suit everyone!
Reef:
I used to do up all of the buckles on my curtainsider (none of this namby pamby load bearing certified crap either) when pulling a load out of that place on the A4 between Theale and Thatcham, what more do you want!
Marley or the Thermalite depots
Back in the fifties when my father drove for Thermalite; the four wheeled Bedfords and Leyland Comet artics had dropsides but the Foden eight leggers were just flats with a tailboard. Marston brick had plenty of flats and they carted millions of bricks over the years without littering the countryside with them. Locally to me Butterley Brick trucks had caged sides and a mid mounted Hiab so useless for general haulage but obviously ideal for ‘their’ type of work. Blocks from Ballidon mainly went out netted apart from a few hauliers who had caged sides, one size doesn’t suit everyone!
Pete.
Glad to see a couple of real lorries at the far end.
Securing the load is the issue, not who is carrying it,
extract from The code of practice for safe loading of vehicles. The links are old, hope there still there worth a look.
1.2 Legal requirements and common sense require that all loads carried on vehicles are secured,
whatever the journey. This is to protect the people involved in loading, unloading and driving
the vehicle, together with other road users and pedestrians.
2.5 The basic principle upon which this Code of Practice is based is that the combined strength of
the load restraint system must be sufficient to withstand a force not less than the total weight
of the load forward, so as to prevent the load moving under severe braking, and half of the
weight of the load backwards and sideways
