trux:
It needs a percentage of tugs and checks to get Green lighted. Its earnt - not just given.
Same as a newbie O L Operator would be initially Redlighted untill they`ve passed a few inspections and learnt/earnt to be good boys & girls
They can giveth- they can taketh away .
.
Surely this aspect was covered in the DCPC training —
.
Pay attention at the back of the class there – wake up
.
Redlighted? Really? You sure about that?
trux:
It needs a percentage of tugs and checks to get Green lighted. Its earnt - not just given.
Same as a newbie O L Operator would be initially Redlighted untill they`ve passed a few inspections and learnt/earnt to be good boys & girls
They can giveth
.
.
Pay attention at the back of the class there – wake up
.
A new operator will be grey
tinsoldier:
… Oh my planner says cross over back…
Given half the planners seem incable of working out the running time between two points they’d be the last person I’d listen to regarding load security.
stevieboy308:
trux:
It needs a percentage of tugs and checks to get Green lighted. Its earnt - not just given.
Same as a newbie O L Operator would be initially Redlighted untill they`ve passed a few inspections and learnt/earnt to be good boys & girls
They can giveth
.
.
Pay attention at the back of the class there – wake up
.A new operator will be grey
+1
shep532:
war1974:
so to combat incompetence we will introduce a set of laws to allow these plebs on the road for longer.other than timber, plasterboard and steel I cant think of a load in a curtainsider that I have strapped regular and the only one I have ever had come out the trailer I had strapped/roped and hammered wedges in.
Often drivers tell me they’ve never ‘lost a load’ or had anything come out the side and that certain loads don’t need strapping etc. This just might mean they haven’t been in ‘that’ circumstance on ‘that’ day when ‘that’ person did ‘that’ thing. I think the idea being promoted by DVSA is that if we secure every load to know standards based on what ‘could’ happen in the wrong circumstances then these things won’t happen.
We also have to consider damage to loads and vehicles. How many loads have shifted that wouldn’t have done with a bit of strapping/netting etc
A good driver knows how to drive to keep his load in place … but unfortunately other drivers can affect that.
It’s a case od risk assessment. We only know we got it wrong when those particular circumstances come together and it all goes wrong. Maybe it’s a 1 in a million chance but it certainly happens to people
Have you put a ratchet ■■■■■■■■ your gramophone?
As you don’t seem to be able to change the record.
me or shep?
if its me - no as I still wouldn’t fully strap a load of palletised goods in a curtainsider unless they looked unstable. I wouldn’t lose a load as I don’t drive like a knob, all these rules do is allow people who shouldn’t be doing the job to do it without any blame (oh sorry the load went over but I strapped it all never mind the fact I hit a roundabout other drivers manage to avoid).
asda ran curtains for year without strapping mixed pallets of good - I cant recall any time one was shed, no XL curtains just drivers using common sense. oh and a strap across the back was about as good as it got.
war1974:
me or shep?if its me - no as I still wouldn’t fully strap a load of palletised goods in a curtainsider unless they looked unstable. I wouldn’t lose a load as I don’t drive like a knob, all these rules do is allow people who shouldn’t be doing the job to do it without any blame (oh sorry the load went over but I strapped it all never mind the fact I hit a roundabout other drivers manage to avoid).
asda ran curtains for year without strapping mixed pallets of good - I cant recall any time one was shed, no XL curtains just drivers using common sense. oh and a strap across the back was about as good as it got.
Got to agree with all of that, if you chuck an artic about like a car, swinging out, jacknifing around, teararsing around roundabouts (as many do routinely) ■■■■ WILL happen eventually…end of.
If you drive one as they are meant and intended to be driven, the chances can go down to potentially zero of having a disaster.
I see Shep’s point also, but my answer would be if you felt the need to try and prevent every potential but highly unlikely event, you would never get anything done. It’s a bit like taking your skis on hol to Benidorm in case it happens to snow, ok, thats a bit ridic, but you know what I mean.
If you know what you are doing, you know what does and does not need strapped.
The fact is the good drivers are being hassled and penalised for the attitudes and actions of the bad ones, that is why we have to fully strap 22 pallets of shrink wrapped cardboard… and get nicked if we don’t. 
robroy:
war1974:
me or shep?if its me - no as I still wouldn’t fully strap a load of palletised goods in a curtainsider unless they looked unstable. I wouldn’t lose a load as I don’t drive like a knob, all these rules do is allow people who shouldn’t be doing the job to do it without any blame (oh sorry the load went over but I strapped it all never mind the fact I hit a roundabout other drivers manage to avoid).
asda ran curtains for year without strapping mixed pallets of good - I cant recall any time one was shed, no XL curtains just drivers using common sense. oh and a strap across the back was about as good as it got.
Got to agree with all of that, if you chuck an artic about like a car, swinging out, jacknifing around, teararsing around roundabouts (as many do routinely) [zb] WILL happen eventually…end of.
If you drive one as they are meant and intended to be driven, the chances can go down to potentially zero of having a disaster.I see Shep’s point also, but my answer would be if you felt the need to try and prevent every potential but highly unlikely event, you would never get anything done. It’s a bit like taking your skis on hol to Benidorm in case it happens to snow, ok, thats a bit ridic, but you know what I mean.
If you know what you are doing, you know what does and does not need strapped.
The fact is the good drivers are being hassled and penalised for the attitudes and actions of the bad ones, that is why we have to fully strap 22 pallets of shrink wrapped cardboard… and get nicked if we don’t.
my whole point exactly rob, why should the drivers who drive sensibly and professionally be penalised because of a group of bellends cant drive accordingly.
All very good until a nob comes along and causes a driver to swerve, brake or whatever and the load ends up on top of some other poor bugger. Or for whatever reason, you end up with a jack knifed artic with most of your load on the road.
strange its never happened to me before and there are many a knob on the road peter.
its called defensive driving which too few display nowadays, leaving a safe gap rather than sitting 3mm off the vehicle in front to save 0.0001 of a second.
plus there is absolutely no way a few straps tied to a bar along the top of a trailer will hold a load if it comes to the extremes.
war1974:
strange its never happened to me before and there are many a knob on the road peter.its called defensive driving which too few display nowadays, leaving a safe gap rather than sitting 3mm off the vehicle in front to save 0.0001 of a second.
plus there is absolutely no way a few straps tied to a bar along the top of a trailer will hold a load if it comes to the extremes.
You’re deluded if you think defensive driving will mean you’ll never be in a situation because of someone else’s actions, of course it will greatly lower the chances. That’s why you’re supposed to strap heavy stuff 400kg iirc to the bed and not use internals
I didn’t say it had never happened, of course I had been cut up, forced to make split second decisions but a strap wont stop that and things like this mean more and more drivers who shouldn’t be on the road are allowed out there.
same with other forms of transport such as ferries etc. if something is gonna go it goes and its also strange how things like timber and steel used to make it across the north sea without issue or excessive straps.
Wonder what the AUDI equivalent is on the North Sea?
And here’s another thought. If the government wanted to use a boat, I reckon they would use a tug.
Then you could get a tugged by VOSA.
ok eager maybe not the best example I could have given 
I still say things that a lot of driver will be spending time chucking straps over would be fine with either none or a couple crossed at the back.
good god I have just though all I need is some Wikipedia quotes and I have become junior carryfast.
It’s ok War, i’m just bored.
Carryfast’s apprentice lol!!
war1974:
I didn’t say it had never happened, of course I had been cut up, forced to make split second decisions but a strap wont stop that and things like this mean more and more drivers who shouldn’t be on the road are allowed out there.same with other forms of transport such as ferries etc. if something is gonna go it goes and its also strange how things like timber and steel used to make it across the north sea without issue or excessive straps.
Would you agree, that if something is strapped on it’ll take more force / harder evasive action, before it’ll fall off?
It sounds like like you’re saying because strapping can’t 100% guarantee something won’t fall in the most extreme of extreme circumstances, then there’s no point to it
2 sat on jct 44 n/b slip into m6 today , 1st one looked in mirror as I approached 
, but no pull, had my folder of printouts ready though
war1974:
plus there is absolutely no way a few straps tied to a bar along the top of a trailer will hold a load if it comes to the extremes.
Here I am playing my record again … Same old tune - but it’s stuck in my head and I can’t help it
If loads are secured correctly along the lines of BSEN 12195 or the German VDI2700 standards they will not move even in the extremes of emergency braking or swerving. That is exactly what those standards are about. They take the maximum forces that can possibly be generated (which have been established by test and trial) and scientifically calculate the forces required to combat them. It’s just physics.
The standards take into account capabilities of the equipment, lashing points, coefficient of friction etc etc
Straps tied to a bar along the top of a trailer are not load restraint - they are pointless decorations that serve little purpose.
We all make our choices based on knowledge and experience. Knowledge can be gained via studying, reading, listening to others with that knowledge etc. Unfortunately experience cannot be gained without actually doing whatever it is. This means you usually gain the experience shortly after you needed it.
I’ve had a few ‘issues’ in the past with loads shifting including destroying the back of my MDs Mercedes G Wagon when a steel structure slid forward off my trailer and wiped it out. I’d strapped it - thought I’d strapped it plenty - clearly I hadn’t. I know exactly why that load shifted now - I had no idea back then.
I agree with a lot of the posts on here. DVSA appear to be over zealous in their enforcement and in some cases it isn’t warranted. But - I see plenty of loads out the road that I know WILL shift if there’s a sudden need to slam on or swerve or they just misjudge their speed into a roundabout etc. the laws of physics dictate it. But that just hasn’t happened to that driver yet - maybe never will.
I dread to think what is inside some of the curtain siders I pass if flats and low loaders where the load is clearly visible aren’t correctly secured it doesn’t bode well for the loads hidden behind curtains.
I know I keep playing the same ■■■■■■ record - but I’d like someone to listen to it 
stevieboy308:
war1974:
I didn’t say it had never happened, of course I had been cut up, forced to make split second decisions but a strap wont stop that and things like this mean more and more drivers who shouldn’t be on the road are allowed out there.same with other forms of transport such as ferries etc. if something is gonna go it goes and its also strange how things like timber and steel used to make it across the north sea without issue or excessive straps.
Would you agree, that if something is strapped on it’ll take more force / harder evasive action, before it’ll fall off?
It sounds like like you’re saying because strapping can’t 100% guarantee something won’t fall in the most extreme of extreme circumstances, then there’s no point to it
yes I agree but my point is the as with everything in society nowadays common sense is being taken away from everyone. yes some loads will need a strap across the back others more, but forcing people to strap each and every thing is overkill to me.
shep yeah I get it regarding x amount will help. bet your boss was over the moon too
war1974:
stevieboy308:
war1974:
I didn’t say it had never happened, of course I had been cut up, forced to make split second decisions but a strap wont stop that and things like this mean more and more drivers who shouldn’t be on the road are allowed out there.same with other forms of transport such as ferries etc. if something is gonna go it goes and its also strange how things like timber and steel used to make it across the north sea without issue or excessive straps.
Would you agree, that if something is strapped on it’ll take more force / harder evasive action, before it’ll fall off?
It sounds like like you’re saying because strapping can’t 100% guarantee something won’t fall in the most extreme of extreme circumstances, then there’s no point to it
yes I agree but my point is the as with everything in society nowadays common sense is being taken away from everyone. yes some loads will need a strap across the back others more, but forcing people to strap each and every thing is overkill to me.
shep yeah I get it regarding x amount will help. bet your boss was over the moon too
Don’t get me wrong, I’m sort of playing devils advocate, luckily I rarely do curtain Siders at the mo and when I do, it’s stuff that defo needs strapping. But 26 plts of beans, I’d only strap the back to stop them falling back. But I don’t really like it when people say drive accordingly or defensively as you can’t control other people etc, the same as when people say I’ve done it like that for years and it never fell off, but some people will of had it fall off!
