Carl Usher:
I’m no fan of Stobbies but I’m with them on this one. If you can’t get a load of tightly shrink-wrapped bottled water from A to B without putting the trailer on its side or the load coming through the curtains without needing every pallet ratchet strap secured to the deck then quite frankly you aren’t cut out to be a vocational driver and you should put your licence in an envelope and send it back to Swansea. In fact any decent driver wouldn’t even need the rear pallets strapped either. What we have nowadays are not drivers but steering wheel attendants with a worthless bit of paper stating that they met the minimum standards required of the ■■■■ easy C+E test on a given day : that does not make one a “driver”.
You can be the best driver in the world but that doesn’t stop the other morons. Only yesterday I had a load of timber on, so was driving extra carefully. Got onto the 509 and was poodling along behind a van and a car. I then notice another car ahead pull into the central reservation to enter my lane. The car in front of the van (I expect it was driven by a woman) then slammed her brakes on, the van then had to slam his brakes on, and I had to make brake hard and used the extra space in the central reservation to try to soften the harshness of the stop. Anyway gets to my drop and despite it being ratcheted the lot had shot forward.
Just serves to prove my point even more.
Not at all - you’re wrong, the point is that accidents do happen, and other road users do cause them. In that split second I did everything right and I brought the vehicle to a controlled halt as best I could. That said I’ll hold my hands up and that load shouldn’t have shifted and I was at fault for that. Where we collect the timber I’ve had issues with them before in regards to the packs and the banding and the way they load them. I will be raising the matter again in light of what happened.
Carl Usher:
I’m no fan of Stobbies but I’m with them on this one. If you can’t get a load of tightly shrink-wrapped bottled water from A to B without putting the trailer on its side or the load coming through the curtains without needing every pallet ratchet strap secured to the deck then quite frankly you aren’t cut out to be a vocational driver and you should put your licence in an envelope and send it back to Swansea. In fact any decent driver wouldn’t even need the rear pallets strapped either. What we have nowadays are not drivers but steering wheel attendants with a worthless bit of paper stating that they met the minimum standards required of the ■■■■ easy C+E test on a given day : that does not make one a “driver”.
You can be the best driver in the world but that doesn’t stop the other morons. Only yesterday I had a load of timber on, so was driving extra carefully. Got onto the 509 and was poodling along behind a van and a car. I then notice another car ahead pull into the central reservation to enter my lane. The car in front of the van (I expect it was driven by a woman) then slammed her brakes on, the van then had to slam his brakes on, and I had to make brake hard and used the extra space in the central reservation to try to soften the harshness of the stop. Anyway gets to my drop and despite it being ratcheted the lot had shot forward.
Just serves to prove my point even more.
Not at all - you’re wrong, the point is that accidents do happen, and other road users do cause them. In that split second I did everything right and I brought the vehicle to a controlled halt as best I could. That said I’ll hold my hands up and that load shouldn’t have shifted and I was at fault for that. Where we collect the timber I’ve had issues with them before in regards to the packs and the banding and the way they load them. I will be raising the matter again in light of what happened.
I wasn’t commenting on your driving; as you say, stuff like that can happen and it doesn’t matter how prepared you thought you were. My comment was about the straps. There’s an ever increasing amount of do gooders on here who scoff at the mere thought of moving a load more than 2 inches without it being strapped down like a mental patient yet there are occasions when you do exactly that and it will still move if you put it under extremes. The same applies if you roll the trailer. Yes the straps might hold the load to the deck, but to serve what purpose? The wrecker crew won’t right you until the load has been separated from the vehicle they’re trying to right so that would mean cutting the straps to release it. That leaves them simply to stop stuff coming through the curtains as you’re driving along which brings us full circle once again to being a monumentally crap driver if you manage to send 26 pallets of bottled water through the curtain. Timber and other unstable loads make sense but tightly wrapped palletised water? No - a complete waste of time and Stobbies are right in that putting a couple of straps behind the back 2 pallets is more than adequate.
I’ve been pulling fridges for the last six or seven years and a lot of the stuff we carry doesn’t extend to the edge of the pallet so I can end up with 20 odd “free standing” pallets, we also do multi drop work so might end up with an odd pallet by itself. Never in all that time have I even attempted to secure any pallets and never have I had one go over.
Is it because I’m some kind of driving God? Not at all; it’s because I’m inherently bone idle and can’t be arsed to restack pallets, so consequently I drive not only according to the road, but also according to the load. You can believe that during that time I’ve had the unexpected happen in front of me, but the key is to expect the unexpected so that when it does happen you are ready and there are no dramas. Keep it smooth kids.
the maoster:
I’ve been pulling fridges for the last six or seven years and a lot of the stuff we carry doesn’t extend to the edge of the pallet so I can end up with 20 odd “free standing” pallets, we also do multi drop work so might end up with an odd pallet by itself. Never in all that time have I even attempted to secure any pallets and never have I had one go over.
Is it because I’m some kind of driving God? Not at all; it’s because I’m inherently bone idle and can’t be arsed to restack pallets, so consequently I drive not only according to the road, but also according to the load. You can believe that during that time I’ve had the unexpected happen in front of me, but the key is to expect the unexpected so that when it does happen you are ready and there are no dramas. Keep it smooth kids.
Couldn’t agree more as a fellow bone-idler. However I will guarantee the “well my DCPC trainer said it must be done x way so it’s definitely true” brigade will be along soon to tell us the errors of our ways and how we should be disgusted with ourselves for being so “unproffesional”.
Whether this thread is a factual event or not agency drivers cant be expected to be conversant with every aspect of curtainsider regs.
In this instance a concern was raised which could have been easily solved with the planner stating that the curtain was XL rated and the load fell into the positive fit requirements and only 2 straps where needed at the back etc.
Ones driving ability is not measured on how many dodgy loads they will take on the open road. Its actually measured on the ability to locate destinations via the most appropriate route (irrespective of what daft navs come up with), manouvering safely amongst traffic, leaving safe gaps, blindside reversing and drinking tea and performing incab shenanigans that go unnoticed by plod.
If it is true that there is a culture of contempt for the regs by Stobbie planners then its only a matter of time before harsh O licence restrictions are in place on them. Saying we will pay your fine licks no ■■■■■■■ with me.
We are not in the 90’s now so H & S bollox has to be complied with even though at times its ridiculous and dare I say unsafe due to ridiculous restrictions placed on people in the workplace.
Not taking a load because you wont breach the regs is not the same as cant take the load because it is beyond ones ability.
Sure 30mins after the OP drove back solo another driver appeared and took the load.
Rjans post on this thread is to me definitive in todays environment.
All that said I would probably have just taken the load and cracked on, but im a bit of a loose cannon.
wee gordy:
I work for tesco,we do collections ,coca cola,highland Spring 2 straps at rear only as we have heavy duty curtains never been pulled as yet
I have often in the past done back hauls for tesco , and I’ve no idea if the load was strapped or if it was how many straps there were , the trailers were always loaded/ sealed by the customer ( this was fresh though , chilled , frozen ) .
Same as taking the loads out , fresh / ambient , there always sealed , I just check the seal number corresponds to the seal number on the pod sheet .
Carl Usher:
The same applies if you roll the trailer. Yes the straps might hold the load to the deck, but to serve what purpose?
It potentially stops the load ■■■■■■■ all over the carriageway. Thats the purpose. The wrecking crew having to cut the straps off in a controlled environment on a closed motorway does nobody any harm.
Carl Usher:
I wasn’t commenting on your driving; as you say, stuff like that can happen and it doesn’t matter how prepared you thought you were. My comment was about the straps. There’s an ever increasing amount of do gooders on here who scoff at the mere thought of moving a load more than 2 inches without it being strapped down like a mental patient yet there are occasions when you do exactly that and it will still move if you put it under extremes. The same applies if you roll the trailer. Yes the straps might hold the load to the deck, but to serve what purpose? The wrecker crew won’t right you until the load has been separated from the vehicle they’re trying to right so that would mean cutting the straps to release it. That leaves them simply to stop stuff coming through the curtains as you’re driving along which brings us full circle once again to being a monumentally crap driver if you manage to send 26 pallets of bottled water through the curtain. Timber and other unstable loads make sense but tightly wrapped palletised water? No - a complete waste of time and Stobbies are right in that putting a couple of straps behind the back 2 pallets is more than adequate.
I see where you’re coming from but commonsense is irrelevant. The law states it requires strapping then it should be strapped, and it’s bloody frustrating, but as a driver I’m the one who’s got to pay the fine so I’ll try to do my best. That said if truth be told there are times when I know I’ve secured my load wrong to what the DVSA might say but I’ve done it the best way it can be done. For example seed, because of the weight it should be ratcheted, but because of the composition of the load - seed moves about in a bag - the best way of securing it is with internals, and the best way of securing with the internals is to cross them, but then how am I supposed to cross them without climbing on the bed when I’m not allowed to climb on the bed.
I might be missing something here but the mention of putting stickers on trailers? The trailers that I see with the both the tuv and yellow stickers have curtains where you can clearly see the square webbing that provides strength, I passed a stobarts trailer last week that looked very old and knackered but had a new sticker on the side at the rear stating it was the correct xl rating but the curtains looked very old a pretty crap?
Oddly enough I was discussing this with my neighbour who drives for an equally large haulier and he said that a majority of loads leaving a couple of sites have no strapping at all, new trailers though, and quite often the internals are jammed against the headboard by the forks, so far no kittens have been killed by the hundreds of loads carried this way.
I do think the comments regarding driving ability against load security are missing the point somewhat, it’s not about your opinion about yours or others abilities, it’s the rules enforced by the DVSA to raise money so if they say do it then ■■■■ it up and do it but don’t cry if you get fined. I look at it like speed limits, they are there to be obeyed no matter how rubbish we think they are so if you chose not to then that’s your problem,and your costs if you get caught but breaking them doesn’t make you suddenly clever or a hero driver who knows better than others, more often than not its quite the opposite…
Oh, and whilst this is a stob bashing session I was wondering, if the planners appear to be so ruthless and the drivers so subservient, when I see one of the F1 Mercs with a raised king pin pulling a standard trailer if the weight is ok? Again I might be wrong and am happy to be corrected but I thought they ran a MGW of 40t…
Carl Usher:
I’m no fan of Stobbies but I’m with them on this one. If you can’t get a load of tightly shrink-wrapped bottled water from A to B without putting the trailer on its side or the load coming through the curtains without needing every pallet ratchet strap secured to the deck then quite frankly you aren’t cut out to be a vocational driver and you should put your licence in an envelope and send it back to Swansea. In fact any decent driver wouldn’t even need the rear pallets strapped either. What we have nowadays are not drivers but steering wheel attendants with a worthless bit of paper stating that they met the minimum standards required of the ■■■■ easy C+E test on a given day : that does not make one a “driver”.
No straps at all,you must be the best driver in the world,I must try harder next week,thank you.
God knows how we used to manage then before all this dvsa bs and loads still didn’t fall of the trailers
Carl Usher:
I’m no fan of Stobbies but I’m with them on this one. If you can’t get a load of tightly shrink-wrapped bottled water from A to B without putting the trailer on its side or the load coming through the curtains without needing every pallet ratchet strap secured to the deck then quite frankly you aren’t cut out to be a vocational driver and you should put your licence in an envelope and send it back to Swansea. In fact any decent driver wouldn’t even need the rear pallets strapped either. What we have nowadays are not drivers but steering wheel attendants with a worthless bit of paper stating that they met the minimum standards required of the ■■■■ easy C+E test on a given day : that does not make one a “driver”.
No straps at all,you must be the best driver in the world,I must try harder next week,thank you.
God knows how we used to manage then before all this dvsa bs and loads still didn’t fall of the trailers
I read the article, the magistrates must have been completely baffled and just given in without thinking about it.
Of course the load is unlikely to be launched into space, but unless there is something stopping it from sliding forwards then it, or more importantly possibly part of it, will do so if it is subjected to enough force. There is not a lot of difference between the scaffold poles mentioned and larger steel pipes or steel sheet; and we all know what can happen to that.
Norfolkinclue1:
I might be missing something here but the mention of putting stickers on trailers? The trailers that I see with the both the tuv and yellow stickers have curtains where you can clearly see the square webbing that provides strength, I passed a stobarts trailer last week that looked very old and knackered but had a new sticker on the side at the rear stating it was the correct xl rating but the curtains looked very old a pretty crap?
I don’t buy that their trailers are load bearing unless perhaps when they have the side bars in place, the ones they put between the pillars for carrying Tesco cages.
The XL rating isn’t just about curtain quality, it’s the quality of the trailers entire structure which has to meet certain specs. It’s difficult to convert an old knackered trailer into an XL one.
I didn’t take the load,as VOSA say the load must be secured as under legislation… Don’t matter what I think or any Traffic bod thinks…It’s the law…I have to work and live within the laws…Curious to know what would happen to a driver who fell foul of this strapping issue was to be …let’s say 7days later was found by VOSA to have committed the same offence… I do know they can apply to have your vocational licence suspended. Maybe then all will secure a load to the manner the law requires
Norfolkinclue1:
I might be missing something here but the mention of putting stickers on trailers? The trailers that I see with the both the tuv and yellow stickers have curtains where you can clearly see the square webbing that provides strength, I passed a stobarts trailer last week that looked very old and knackered but had a new sticker on the side at the rear stating it was the correct xl rating but the curtains looked very old a pretty crap?
I don’t buy that their trailers are load bearing unless perhaps when they have the side bars in place, the ones they put between the pillars for carrying Tesco cages.
The XL rating isn’t just about curtain quality, it’s the quality of the trailers entire structure which has to meet certain specs. It’s difficult to convert an old knackered trailer into an XL one.
I was under the impression that the trailers were built to an XL standard design but not certified, dont know if anyone can confirm this? You are right about it being the entire structure though. Sure Ive seen trailers with stickers on the inside of the doors saying they are to EN1462XL standard etc.
toby1234abc:
It’s their policy to only strap the back of the load and not every pallet.
If you load bottled water ,they request the last two pallets to be secure .
Like to see the response if they were to get pulled in Germany.
regards dave.
NFClue- the F1 trucks and the G cab Scania’s(tandem axle/ wheelers) are indeed not rated to pull 26t trailers.
Doesn’t interest the knobhead planners though. On a number of occasions I was given a tandem and a trailer number. On one particular occasion I looked in the trailer, and it had 26 pallets of childrens books loaded. Back upstairs to the knob’s to ask for a 6 wheeler and was told " It should be ok ".
I then asked what the weight was which they predictably replied " Don’t know ".
After explaining that it was more than probably overweight, but I would explain to DVSA that the planners said it was ok, miraculously I got given a 6 wheel unit.
toby1234abc:
It’s their policy to only strap the back of the load and not every pallet.
If you load bottled water ,they request the last two pallets to be secure .
Like to see the response if they were to get pulled in Germany.
regards dave.
But surely Germany would use the european guidelines, and not DVSA guidelines which seem to contradict european guidelines.
At the risk of being unpopular… Shouldn’t the OP have had a few more than 2 straps on his tractor unit ? isn’t there a basic number a straps a vehicle should be equipped with or is it just me
However I will guarantee the “well my DCPC trainer said it must be done x way so it’s definitely true” brigade will be along soon to tell us the errors of our ways and how we should be disgusted with ourselves for being so “unproffesional”.