Stan Robinsons new road idea

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
1

Now whilst I agree that the route he is proposing

Warrington - M42/M5 junction via Whitwood

Is a good idea & are say we could all come up with a few suggestions of our own ie

A motorway from Dover to Penzance (M27?)

A12 converted to mtorway along it’s entire length from the M25

A47 Motorway along it’s entire length

A14 motorway along it’s entirw length

A new outer ring road around London running approx 15 outside the M25 radius but only having junctions for M20,M23,A3,M3,M4,M40,M1,M11,A12,A13 only 10 junctions would make it an expressway around & not into London.

Are just a few that pop into my head immediately but getting back to the original topic If you wanted to relieve the congestion on the M6 (or indeed any other motorway or trunk road) why not double deck it?

I can forsee a number of advantages in this idea

Double capacity without digging up any “vigin” land

No rubber necking at accidents as the design I had in mind would have a solid section running where our current central reservation is with supports on pads located just off the hard shoulder.

you could make the top deck an expressway by putting far fewer junctions on it
A prime example could be the English section of M4

From the M25 if you only had :-

1 exit at slough
1 exit at Reading
1 exit at A34
1 exit at Swindon
1 exit at Bristol
1 exit at M5
Then merge for the tolls at the Servern crossing or even make the old crossing dedicated to the expressway only

The slip roads for these expressways could merge on the existing hard shoulders at Junctions

Just think how much time could be saved without the junction hoppers if this idea was used throughout the Motorway network

If you think it is pie in the sky (pun intended) then it’s not because we (the British) have already performed this engineering feat in Hong Kong before the Chinese took back control

2

What you bin drinking Sean :laughing: :laughing: , Motorways on stilts :question: Spagrotti Junction springs to mind :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:

3

it would be a lot more viable if light vehicles only used the bits on stilts, think about it, spaghetti is really so bad becasue of us lot pounding it mercilessly! :laughing:

4

Doubl deck motorways, Great :smiley: Nothing under 3.5 tonnes on the lower deck and nothing over 3.5 tonnes on the top deck. Then we’ll see who blocks the road network. :laughing:

5

north surrey haulage:
If you think it is pie in the sky (pun intended) then it’s not because we (the British) have already performed this engineering feat in Hong Kong before the Chinese took back control

i.e. Bridges at Newcastle(?) and Londonderry!

6

north surrey haulage:
A motorway from Dover to Penzance (M27?)

originally the m27 was supposed to go from ramsgate to exeter but was abandoned after the first bit was built

7

What you trying to do NSH…Give Blair and Brown a heart attack!

There is no way they would do this because of the cost. It would break their hearts to have to fund this sort of road network.

But I agree with you, it’s a great solution to an ever increasing problem. The civil engineering is available so it’s only the funding that’s needed.

The City of Boston in the States demolished their city expressway/turnpike which was mainly raised roadways because it no longer could cope with the traffic volume. Their answer was to build the roads underground out of everybodys way. They improved traffic flow and cut emissions because all air in the tunnels is filtered.

The UK could follow suit and have triple deck roads in some areas (underground, groundlevel & raised) This would allow for local, commuter and express style roads. Some form of toll would probably need to be levied for these type of roads.

But as I say the terrible twins in Downing St. would never allow it.

8

Sean, reading your idea, I immediately saw the busy urban & semi urban areas of the capital of my favourite country… Bangkok, Thailand.

You describe it well. Now Thailand is a 3rd world country & in many ways they are a long way behind us, but in the Bangkok area they are definately on the cusp of the 1st world.

They have stilted express ways (tolled) all over the place & they work well.

Has to be said though, all the concrete supporting structures are are a total eyesore, block in traffic fumes below & block out sunlight. (there’s abit like that at Shefffield) The Skytrain concrete way is just the same, whereas in Sydney there is a monorail system that you hardly notice is there 'till a train goes by as there is only an RSJ with the odd supporting pillar.

Totally agree with your ideas in principle.

9

There is only one way to do it and that is to close all junctions between where i set off and where i have to deliver, thus giving me a straight run up and down whichever roads i choose to use dead simple really!!.

A better solution in this country would be to have less traffice on the roads we all know it is possible its just a logistical problem , i run empty a hell of a lot in fact probaby a 1/3rd of the journies in my lorry are MT the major supermarkets are probably the same they could pick up a LOT of their own loads but they dont, and people should be encouraged to car share but it is seen as a joke in this country to do it.

We dont need bigger and better roads we just need less traffic.

10

Your idea about the M25 is not new Sean, I remember putting an identical one to an FTA meeting about 20 years ago. The major problem with that road is definitely suburb hopping. I’m sure it is no coincidence that French motorways, despite admittedly being in a less densely populated country, benefit from the paucity of junctions.
As regards double decking, it sounds good but would be hideously expensive to build and maintain. I have never ceased to be amazed at the courage of the planners of Tinsley, but that has suffered major structural worries over the years.

Salut, David.

11

[/quote]

Has to be said though, all the concrete supporting structures are are a total eyesore, block in traffic fumes below & block out sunlight. (there’s abit like that at Shefffield) .
[/quote]

you’re only jealous cos youre on the wrong side of t’ills

12

you’re only jealous cos youre on the wrong side of t’ills

nay lad, i’m on reet side :laughing: :laughing:

13

Driveroneuk:

you’re only jealous cos youre on the wrong side of t’ills

nay lad, i’m on reet side :laughing: :laughing:

“Oh no you’re not!” cue Xmas panto banter!!

14

this “t’ills” thing, is that a bit like “t’internet”? :wink:

15

Mal:
this “t’ills” thing, is that a bit like “t’internet”? :wink:

Aye, 'tis!!

16

I think an answer to the double-deck bit with the junction-hopping issue would be to either create a swooping fly-over viaduct in junction-dense areas that mimic the thelwall viaduct in design, but sited for example around northern manchester, bits of brum, london, and glasgow, to take the traffic not wanting to exit on either a shorter more direct elevated line (or even underground) and leave the local stuff to their own devices, to reunite later on - and of course for traffic coming in to make drops or collects in those areas, stay on the “old road”. Should cut volume in the first instance on each as well as safety since the “old road” could be lower speed limits to cope with the amount of chopping in and out that’d happen.

One ideal road will never happen due to the sheer scale of the engineering project, and that is to mimic the road that cuts through Manchester for a percentage, and do it to London - an “L-Way” elevated structure above the edgeware road as far as possible before plunging underground, under the river, and splitting in two, one to head toward the M20 and the other toward the Kentish area, each re-emerging shortly into the suburbs and continuing to near the M25 where they could re-join the existing motorway network. It’d link the M1 to the south and dover coast in a no-compromise no-turn-off expressway with limited local access, and emergency access of course.
Imagine the traffic going for example, from the noth west to Europe - no more the bun-fight of going from the M1, and either round the top and over the QE2 or round the bottom - cutting the density of traffic in existing congested areas quite well, and reducing road-miles.

With lower speeds enforced by SPECS, a strict lane-discipline of HGVs to lane 1, vans and cars and bikes to lane 2, and other such safeguards to flowing traffic, a decent set-up would mean cutting up to 30 miles from the journey as the crow flies, and if reasonably level it’d knock out the problem of slower wagons going up hill and down dale for the lorries bunged in a fixed laneempty behind someone loaded.

Such a road could even pay for itself with a non-discouraging toll system, where it’s free for motorbikes, a quid for cars, 2 quid for 3.5-7.5tn and 3 qid for hgvs - since the saved fuel alone would cover the cost of the journey but the cash income would maintain the road.

but it’s pie in the sky due to an unadventurous population who won’t permit a government to ■■■■ out of turn let alone green-light fantastical road projects and the sheer size of the project to tunnel 15 or 2 miles through clay, and to get a skyway built over parts of suburban and urban london.

right, I’m off to cloud cuckoo land to hunt oompah loompahs and shoot pixies.

17

north surrey haulage:
Are just a few that pop into my head immediately but getting back to the original topic If you wanted to relieve the congestion on the M6 (or indeed any other motorway or trunk road) why not double deck it?
I can forsee a number of advantages in this idea
Double capacity without digging up any “vigin” land

Just close of some of the birmingham exit/entrys from junction 9 and let the local traffic use it’s own infrastructure instead of using the (already conjested ) M6 as a local Birmingham trunk road.

north surrey haulage:
No rubber necking at accidents as the design I had in mind would have a solid section running where our current central reservation is with supports on pads located just off the hard shoulder.
you could make the top deck an expressway by putting far fewer junctions on it

“rubber necking” is actually one of the largest urban myths. Drivers see a flashing blue light and automatically slow down. If you believe anything else you ar not paying attention to people on the road. Watch them and see!!

18

Mike-C:
“rubber necking” is actually one of the largest urban myths. Drivers see a flashing blue light and automatically slow down. If you believe anything else you ar not paying attention to people on the road. Watch them and see!!

I have to disagree - I saw the remains of a 3 car crash on the A1 northbound as I travelled southbound in Notts, a couple of months ago (late evening) - maybe happened a few moments before, with people only just getting out of a car facing the wrong way and tucked into the central barrier, both headlights out, no emergency services as yet, and cars 200 yards away blisfully unaware why I was flashing and giving hazard warning lights to suggest they slow down and dodge the debris.

me mate who set off 10 minutes or so after me - gives me a bell about minutes later on the old bluetooth and asks if I’m sat at the head of the traffic and if I know what’s causing the delay and if its a big enough queue to make it worth ducking off and rejoining later - I confirmed no roadworks so either an accident our side or the one I passed the other way.
he rang me shortly after, said as he passed the scene opposite, it magically cleared up our side and he was off and away, just as the police turned up.

rubberneckers.
not mythological ones - real ones :smiley:

19

Mike-C:
“rubber necking” is actually one of the largest urban myths.

I have to disagree with that.

I see 'em everyday on the M25.I’ve sat in 5 mile jams because people are rubber necking a lorry having it’s tyre changed (on a wide section of hardshoulder at M11 split clockwise).
I’ve sat there numerous times when all there is on the hardshoulder is a broken down car & his mate helping him out.

None of the above have blue flashing lights at the scene.

If they are not rubbernecking is it a “myth” that as they get level with an incident they suddenly hit their brakes to slow down for a better look?

Then as they pass they give it the grand prix bit accelerating as fast as they can becaus they are now late Because of all the “rubberneckers” leaving eve ybody behind blaming the 44t lorry 'coz he couldn’t accelerate a fast so it looks like there’s nothing in front of 'im/'er

20

mike rubbernecking is real allright! ive nearly ran a ■■■■■■ off the road looking at a broke down motor with no jonny law in sight some of them STOP! the thing is, blue lights attract the [zb] as well, and prbly tin foil on wool, or tinkly bells, anything really, you know what i mean! :wink:

That wasn’t even subtle! L. :wink: