Spineless drivers

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
121

BillyHunt:
Ah cue the anti armed forces driving squad, they’ll be along any minute.
Couple of points:
Pay hasnt stayed the same for 15-20 years, whoever gave you that one is lying.
Not all yards have signs in foreign languages, if they do its to tell those delivering how to go on in the yard as a help. We are part of the EU and as such have deliveries from the EU & beyond. A better indicator is if the signs inside the warehouses/toilets are in different languages.
I said earlier I hadn’t come across a foreign driver driving a UK plated truck & I haven’t. That’s not bollox my friend, it’s fact. Not been anywhere that has them, not that it would bother me if they did. I live & work in the north east, Newcastle to be exact, & the furthest I venture in my current job is between Manchester area & Stirling in Scotland.

Ok so why has the cost of living rocketed and wages stayed stagnated for the past 10 years and in some cases at a loss.
I’m not talking haulage I mean the general uk workforce.

Every warehouse I go to it’s a very high % of foreigners working in them.
Including drivers, forkies and production staff.

I don’t know why they don’t venture up jock land much it’s maybe cause they aren’t as welcoming up there.
Only tine you see 100s of them in Scotland is when it’s fruit picking time.

As I said I couldn’t care less as I’m quite content working where iam for the money and conditions.
I’m only pointing my point across as I see it but if you can give me a reason why costs of living has rocketed and wages have stated the same I’m all ears.

122

Going back to a point made earlier in the thread, I think the writing is on the wall from an ’ improving pay ’ point of view.

It seems inevitable to me that if a driver shortage DOES start to bite, the Government will end up subsidising LGV training. Which in turn will then attract too many, resulting in low wages anyway.

123

desypete:
only the mugs who have no others skills bother coming into driving now as its the only way they can make 400 quid a week or more but they have to do how many hours ? how many night out ?

well they deserve all they get in my book, it will not be long before the national minimum wage over takes drivers pay, the only reason driver make a living is because they have to do a weeks and half work in there week compared to other industry’s

but hey you all hear my moans about drivers all the time, you all know it bloody true

Not all true DesyPete,

I’ve got other skills, as have lots of drivers on here and those out there who are not on TNet even that you meet during travels. So speak for yourself if you lack skills, not on behalf of others.

I supposedly come from a professional background because of my degree and charterships…zbing joke.
We done more hours per week including weekends to keep companies and projects afloat than you can legally squeeze out of tacho or even if you took the fuse out or used a magnet.
Shock horror it worked out a lot less pay than what lorry driving pays when you calculated hours done to salary paid.

I know I’m very lucky where I’ve got into at present. Decent wage (pays way more than my professional job paid gross as a direct comparison), reasonable hours for haulage and no nights out (unless agreed in advance). But there are quite a few companies still out there that do similar to but you do have to be a bit savvy with who and what you’re going to work within a sector. There’s places close to me that have even better terms so its not a minority company.

Also a lot forget on here there’s a lot more ■■■■■■■ industries out there that pay less and expect more hours than ours too!

The attitude in the majority of today’s society is going back to Victorian values with regards to work ethics…you’re not doing enough unless you’re working all the time be it physically there or answering emails at the weekend on your smart phone in the bath…the current government will force this point home once they’ve destroyed all working people’s rights in the next 5 years.

However back to Robroy/Olvov Jay and their true statement about not sorting your own destiny and complaining to others.
I was in a ■■■■ job when i passed my class 1, took loads of ■■■■ argued back but not enough, realised I was getting whingy to others, hated everyday then me and owner had a huge barney over something trivial and I said enough’s enough I’ll be quitting Monday this was Friday night. Sure enough I approached another company and went there Saturday morning and handed notice in Monday morning with time sheet and left following Friday.
I didn’t take it personally as I was driver 4 out of 9 in a 12 month period on that lorry alone which may as well have revolving doors on it as there’s still new faces going in there as we speak and coming out again. [emoji21]

C

124

eagerbeaver:
Going back to a point made earlier in the thread, I think the writing is on the wall from an ’ improving pay ’ point of view.

It seems inevitable to me that if a driver shortage DOES start to bite, the Government will end up subsidising LGV training. Which in turn will then attract too many, resulting in low wages anyway.

Why?
What is going cause a driver shortage?

125

Carryfast:
Ironically Scargill etc was actually the definition of ‘standing up’ to the guvnors notwithstanding the misguided connection with Socialism as part of that.No surprise that it is the employers who had everything to gain by crying ‘militancy’ etc in that case.

IE realistically there is no way for the working class to stand up for itself without being branded as ‘militant’.

I never thought I’d see a day I’d agree with you Carryfast, but today it has come!

126

The thread seems to have gone off on a tangent, I think it was desypete that brought foreign drivers in to it . :unamused: …incidentally he’s gone a bit quiet ain’t he.
Somebody mention the dcpc, and draw him back in, …get him away from applying for that Chicken sexer job.
btw Does anybody think that Chicken Sexers are a bit spineless, and should stick up for themselves bit more, especially regarding the cscpc. :bulb:

127

From what I have read in the article mentioned on here, there IS a driver shortage in certain areas of the country.

My point is, if you give loads of free training out, there will be plenty more available drivers. Add that to the growing number of EE migrants, and it seems inevitable that supply could outstrip demand. This happened with fork lift driving licences a few years ago.

The jobcentre gave lots of people FLT’s, and now its extremely difficult to get more than £7.50 per hour where I live.
My fear is that the same will happen to LGV drivers.

128

robroy:
The thread seems to have gone off on a tangent, I think it was desypete that brought foreign drivers in to it . :unamused: …incidentally he’s gone a bit quiet ain’t he.
Somebody mention the dcpc, and draw him back in, …get him away from applying for that Chicken sexer job.
btw Does anybody think that Chicken Sexers are a bit spineless, and should stick up for themselves bit more, especially regarding the cscpc. :bulb:

I don’t get what the big deal is with the DCPC.
Every industry has minimum requirements with 5 year expiry dates on there cards.
CSCS cards for slingers, plant and even tractor ops.

I’m not saying the DCPC is going teach a driver of 20 or 30 years anything new.

But industries move with the times and I don’t think one day a year is that big a deal.

129

eagerbeaver:
From what I have read in the article mentioned on here, there IS a driver shortage in certain areas of the country.

My point is, if you give loads of free training out, there will be plenty more available drivers. Add that to the growing number of EE migrants, and it seems inevitable that supply could outstrip demand. This happened with fork lift driving licences a few years ago.

The jobcentre gave lots of people FLT’s, and now its extremely difficult to get more than £7.50 per hour where I live.
My fear is that the same will happen to LGV drivers.

I just said that and got shot to pieces.

The only time there was ever going to be an extreme driver shortage where wages rises would av been high was sept last year.
It didn’t happen.
Why is that?

The only time in this country there will ever be a driver shortage is if we leave the EU and stop free movement of people and goods.

130

eagerbeaver:
From what I have read in the article mentioned on here, there IS a driver shortage in certain areas of the country.

My point is, if you give loads of free training out, there will be plenty more available drivers. Add that to the growing number of EE migrants, and it seems inevitable that supply could outstrip demand. This happened with fork lift driving licences a few years ago.

The jobcentre gave lots of people FLT’s, and now its extremely difficult to get more than £7.50 per hour where I live.
My fear is that the same will happen to LGV drivers.

That’s the problem. Despite desy’s claim wages have gone up a little since the dcpc, whether the 2 are connected is another argument.
If the shortage does exist ( and I ain’t entirely convinced) at least drivers will then have the chance to shop around for a better paying job, and drivers in their present job will have the golden opportunity to carry out the thread subject…stand up against unfairness, tell them to ■■■■ off when unfairly pushed, stick their in cab cameras up their arses, tell them they are not militant, but more than willing to do the job to the best of their ability, but will NOT be ■■■■■■ ed about, and threaten to leave if and when they are…at last! The boot on the other foot. :bulb:
Sadly it more than likely will not happen except for a few cases, such as some of the lads on here that claim they have a tongue in their heads. That is of course they are not talking bull, as I said in the o/p.Majority=.Spineless.

131

robroy:
If the shortage does exist ( and I ain’t entirely convinced) at least drivers will then have the chance to shop around for a better paying job, and drivers in their present job will have the golden opportunity to carry out the thread subject…stand up against unfairness, tell them to [zb] off when unfairly pushed, stick their in cab cameras up their arses, tell them they are not militant, but more than willing to do the job to the best of their ability, but will NOT be [zb] ed about, and threaten to leave if and when they are…at last! The boot on the other foot. :bulb:
Sadly it more than likely will not happen except for a few cases, such as some of the lads on here that claim they have a tongue in their heads. That is of course they are not talking bull, as I said in the o/p.Majority=.Spineless.

You don’t need a shortage to do this, its your own personal tolerance of others and a company’s attitude.

You personally must have known drivers who have searched for another job on better terms because of the crap they’re putting up with even though they tried to fight the system…I can’t believe its a minority doing it or even others wouldn’t even consider doing it…seriously noone needs that amount of hand holding to leave a job do they, after spending so long highlighting problems in a regime?

In the last 18 months I moved 3 jobs each time to get better T&Cs and I wouldn’t say I’m a super duper gold star driver. I done it because I wanted to better myself personally careerwise and financially for me and the wife or because one of the jobs was just real ■■■■ and I couldn’t personally conform to the regime and they were always going to win no matter how polite you was about the situation.

I haven’t worked for a large driving company before only medium or family sized ones…but surely that’s why we all change jobs when we’ve had enough of the ■■■■ and better terms are given/found

And I’m bloody sure lots of people look and keep their ear to the ground to better themselves otherwise monotony and Groundhog Day principles would come into play in everyone’s daily lives.

Moving on if something doesn’t work within your established principles is not rare…please tell me it isn’t so.

C

132

I’ve seen quite a few Bidvest lorries around with L plates on recently; Does this mean drivers are being choosy with work, wages are going up (their money is meant to be good) or simply that Alligra Personnel can’t import EE drivers fast enough?

133

Themoocher:

BillyHunt:
Ah cue the anti armed forces driving squad, they’ll be along any minute.
Couple of points:
Pay hasnt stayed the same for 15-20 years, whoever gave you that one is lying.
Not all yards have signs in foreign languages, if they do its to tell those delivering how to go on in the yard as a help. We are part of the EU and as such have deliveries from the EU & beyond. A better indicator is if the signs inside the warehouses/toilets are in different languages.
I said earlier I hadn’t come across a foreign driver driving a UK plated truck & I haven’t. That’s not bollox my friend, it’s fact. Not been anywhere that has them, not that it would bother me if they did. I live & work in the north east, Newcastle to be exact, & the furthest I venture in my current job is between Manchester area & Stirling in Scotland.

Ok so why has the cost of living rocketed and wages stayed stagnated for the past 10 years and in some cases at a loss.
I’m not talking haulage I mean the general uk workforce.

Every warehouse I go to it’s a very high % of foreigners working in them.
Including drivers, forkies and production staff.

I don’t know why they don’t venture up jock land much it’s maybe cause they aren’t as welcoming up there.
Only tine you see 100s of them in Scotland is when it’s fruit picking time.

As I said I couldn’t care less as I’m quite content working where iam for the money and conditions.
I’m only pointing my point across as I see it but if you can give me a reason why costs of living has rocketed and wages have stated the same I’m all ears.

Ok, obviously geography isn’t a strong point of yours, Newcastle is in England not Scotland.
The reason why the cost of living has gone up would probably have something to do with the price of oil, it goes up therefore all things associated with it will cost more to make, this is a guess as I’m just a driver, but it cannot be because of all the foreign drivers as they work for less money don’t they? As for pay I’m on more than I was years ago, and plenty more than when in the army that’s for sure, as I get a pay rise every year. Simply by asking, wether working for agency or full time, if it was refused I just moved on until I got something I’m happy with. No Union, no shouting, no hissy fits required, just stated my case to the boss, he said yes, in which case I stayed, or no in which case I moved on. Once a few moved on, as in the case of ramage, wages went up. Some might not like giving pay rises but it’s better than having no drivers and therefore no business.

134

When I was shop steward, I always got the “were not having less than 3% pay rise”, then when they offered 2% it was" well I suppose it’s better than nowt". They only knew where the shop steward was when they wanted something. What’s the union doing about this, what they doing about that? If you want something go and ask for it, but when you’re on a disciplinary and you’re wanting me to represent you, then I save your job for you, please remember that instead of slagging the union off behind me back.

135

Constantine:
You personally must have known drivers who have searched for another job on better terms because of the crap they’re putting up with even though they tried to fight the system…I can’t believe its a minority doing it or even others wouldn’t even consider doing it…seriously noone needs that amount of hand holding to leave a job do they, after spending so long highlighting problems in a regime?
I haven’t worked for a large driving company before only medium or family sized ones…but surely that’s why we all change jobs when we’ve had enough of the [zb] and better terms are given/found
And I’m bloody sure lots of people look and keep their ear to the ground to better themselves otherwise monotony and Groundhog Day principles would come into play in everyone’s daily lives.

Moving on if something doesn’t work within your established principles is not rare…please tell me it isn’t so.

C

Yeh I know drivers that left jobs for all the crap, I have myself in fact.
Thing is I have came across more drivers that will put up with absolutely anything and say absolutely nothing, that was my point in the o/p.

As an example, say I am given a task which is a bit tight arsed on time. I will say ‘hang on a minute, I will give you a ring from xxxxx and let you know how I’m getting on, as I do not think I’ll have enough time to get to yyyyyy’ Boss says 'OK fair enough ( as he knows he is either A.asking a lot or B.knows he is taking the ■■■■) That is not being ■■■■■■■■, loudmouth, militant, arsey, or anything else you can think of… it is taking a professional approach to it, and looking after my licence.

So then you get the drivers that will think/know exactly the same, but say nothing to the boss …except ‘yeh OK’ :open_mouth: . Then they ring all the rest of the drivers and moan, and call the boss a ■■■■.
They then go like hell on the limiter, work through breaks, .(looking upon it as some kind of challenge :unamused: ) and even worse …achieve it. :unamused: Then start a thread on here ending with ‘What should I do’ ignore all advice and do it again next week :unamused: :laughing:

So next time matey that achieves it gets the same job next week to do again,…and again, :bulb: and then I carry on at a steady legal pace and get paid the same as matey, simply because I stood up and politely pointed out that the job was a bit Ott.

That is just one eg. of what I am on about, but it never ceases to amaze me how far drivers are willing to go, not just on job times, but generally.,and how much crap they are prepared to put up with. They think they will get the sack if they answer back ffs

136

robroy:
The thread seems to have gone off on a tangent, I think it was desypete that brought foreign drivers in to it . :unamused: …incidentally he’s gone a bit quiet ain’t he.
Somebody mention the dcpc, and draw him back in, …get him away from applying for that Chicken sexer job.
btw Does anybody think that Chicken Sexers are a bit spineless, and should stick up for themselves bit more, especially regarding the cscpc. :bulb:

i go quiet from time to time as i have to earn a crust !!!

wish i could spend the time some of the posters on here seem to be able to spend on here, god knows how they do it ?

as for what i am up to myself since packing in driving, well i will not reveal what my job is only because i dont want the herbets who are stuck in the driving game getting an idea like i had to get out of if i mean you guys have to find your own way out of it if its what you want you dont need to try to rob others ideas, your bad enough trying to find out who i paying the best hourly rate and trying to get into somones else job without me giving you ideas of how to get out and make a few quid without the long hours or hard work etc

anyway i will let you know one thing i am still driving at times without the need for a cpc and i earn a decent screw for what i do, so all is well there and it keeps my hand in,

for those who are to thick to work out how the hell i can still be driving large combinations without a cpc i will leave you in suspense over it :smiley:

of course i keep my eye open on what’s going on in the driving world as i have been a driver for 26 years, i hope one day they knock the smoking ban, they would knock the cpc card for six, and that the hourly rate would go up to at least 15 - 20 quid an hour for a class 1, 10 quid for a class 2 but most importantly over time paid at time an half after 8 hours

that should be what the drivers should be looking at minimum in my eyes, i am sure it would temp us all back who did give up driving when the cpc card came in, the ones who really did at least try to make a stand, its a pitty you other whimps didnt but there is no point in calling me out over it just because you didnt have the balls to do the same thing

if every driver did the same and never got there card it would of been the stand that would of benefited every driver but no you guys had to go and get your card because the driver next to you went to go and get his

that is the problem like the title of the thread says, spineless drivers

well this one wasnt spineless and nither were a lot more others who got out of it as well, hoping that the big gobs who said they would also not be getting theres would back there mouths up

but they didnt

instead the spineless morons try to make fun of someone who did have the back bone to do something, and did have the brains to find other ways to make a few quid other than driving for a living

137

That’s completely fair and how you have to work in any element of industry there is always compromise and I’m glad you said that to them.

Ours more than most is very dynamic with the potential delays and problems we have to work through daily.

Dare i say it on here that’s the professional attitude to take whatever you do and you’ve offered alternatives too I imagine if the job could be run more efficient.

Ive just had to do it here literally now.
Gave myself nearly 3.5 hours to get to Guilford this morning should only take 2h 20 mins. Took me 3hrs 15 mins.
Phoned site contact said about certain delays no problem, get here when you can.
Had to be in Pitsea afterwards for after 1000 was still legally doable be about 15 mins late though.
However long delays DRC called in office asked for a traffic update in that area…very dire…spoke it over with TM we’ll go clockwise on M25 not good but not as bad.

Called client said about problems they understood situation and said site will just have to accept no more you can do.

Then called site contact who also understood, stating I’ve got to have a tacho break and go all way round M25 but I’ll be there before 1200.

Carried on at my pace and traffic’s pace, rocked up South Mimms R/B as 4hrs 30 driving time flashed up. Infringed by 8mins as…as usual everyone parked in the long/wide bays who are not long or wide, (out of interest it used to be a box jockeys fav to do this but curtainsiders and rigids inc. 7.5t are now parking there why is this■■? [emoji12] is it a get back at me because i might have inconvenienced you earlier…kidding i don’t take it personally just think they’re selfish knobs to the even bigger loads moving around than me!)

Again those “spineless” drivers won’t make eye contact with you while you crawl past the bay looking for a space to fit into. Yet the guys in the main park area, couldn’t do enough to help me get in.

Had to go in main parking area and take up two bays while faffing around to get in hence I infringed through my own choice and also because I didn’t want to dump it on the service road…ironically pretty empty in the main parking area.

I did used to try and be one of them drivers you described and not create a fuss at my very first artic job, then realised doing all the things you describe doesn’t help to make you fit in with the boss as they expect more and as the only other driver there was doing it already as well it was kinda forced upon me…but like I said after the last stupid row over something taking 5 mins longer than it should have I walked out on him…as have many in the past, present and indeed the future employees will.

He did threaten me with an extension of probation as he did to all his other drivers before and after bar his favourite but I took that threat from him and turned it on him (when he had a Scotch job going the next week, as the other driver wouldn’t do nights out) and told him what I was going to do instead.
I stuck to my guns politely and legally and done it no fuss, threats or violence so I’d always have the upper hand. The boss then had to do that Scotland load himself.

Luckily I knew a place was looking for a driver in the field I want to do, my wife works, we’re young, don’t have children or a huge mortgage to pay out on which makes that kind of decision easier…not saying its an excuse but those things make people curtail more easily than they liked too.

But in essence you’re right you must say things professionally if they’re not right otherwise the detrimental impact on others is far reaching than you could ever first imagine.

138

desypete:

robroy:
The thread seems to have gone off on a tangent, I think it was desypete that brought foreign drivers in to it . :unamused: …incidentally he’s gone a bit quiet ain’t he.
Somebody mention the dcpc, and draw him back in, …get him away from applying for that Chicken sexer job.
btw Does anybody think that Chicken Sexers are a bit spineless, and should stick up for themselves bit more, especially regarding the cscpc. :bulb:

i go quiet from time to time as i have to earn a crust !!!

wish i could spend the time some of the posters on here seem to be able to spend on here, god knows how they do it ?

as for what i am up to myself since packing in driving, well i will not reveal what my job is only because i dont want the herbets who are stuck in the driving game getting an idea like i had to get out of if i mean you guys have to find your own way out of it if its what you want you dont need to try to rob others ideas, your bad enough trying to find out who i paying the best hourly rate and trying to get into somones else job without me giving you ideas of how to get out and make a few quid without the long hours or hard work etc

anyway i will let you know one thing i am still driving at times without the need for a cpc and i earn a decent screw for what i do, so all is well there and it keeps my hand in,

for those who are to thick to work out how the hell i can still be driving large combinations without a cpc i will leave you in suspense over it :smiley:

of course i keep my eye open on what’s going on in the driving world as i have been a driver for 26 years, i hope one day they knock the smoking ban, they would knock the cpc card for six, and that the hourly rate would go up to at least 15 - 20 quid an hour for a class 1, 10 quid for a class 2 but most importantly over time paid at time an half after 8 hours

that should be what the drivers should be looking at minimum in my eyes, i am sure it would temp us all back who did give up driving when the cpc card came in, the ones who really did at least try to make a stand, its a pitty you other whimps didnt but there is no point in calling me out over it just because you didnt have the balls to do the same thing

if every driver did the same and never got there card it would of been the stand that would of benefited every driver but no you guys had to go and get your card because the driver next to you went to go and get his

that is the problem like the title of the thread says, spineless drivers

well this one wasnt spineless and nither were a lot more others who got out of it as well, hoping that the big gobs who said they would also not be getting theres would back there mouths up

but they didnt

instead the spineless morons try to make fun of someone who did have the back bone to do something, and did have the brains to find other ways to make a few quid other than driving for a living

Ok, Pete, but the difference between me and you ( that is apart from me being a Herbert/moron/whimp/thick/spineless, of course) is if I had decided to jack “because of the dcpc” (still not convinced) I would have just quietly got a job, got on with it, moved on, and looked forward.
What I would not have done is scour this site for every reference to the dcpc, and come on with an air of superiority over everybody telling them I should be revered for making my supposed one man stand against authority, and that everybody else is a complete (fill in the blank) for choosing to keep their jobs, for whatever reason.
It’s a bit like getting a divorce, but not making the break and bombarding your ex with abuse

As for you not revealing what you do, …do you REALLY think that we are hanging on your every word so we can get ideas :laughing: …come on Pete you are starting to believe your own hype ffs :unamused: :smiley: it is just banter after all, in REAL terms at the end of the day, nobody really gives a ■■■■. , we are all getting on with our own stuff.:bulb:
So you have got a job driving a Transit, …ok so well done if you are happy and getting well paid, best of luck, but seriously mate…, we all get it, you didn’t do the dcpc, so move on, let it go. :bulb:

139

desypete:
I have to go out and earn a crust.

Greggs?

140

i think desy has joined the travelling fraternity :laughing:

to be honest these threads always make me laugh - shop stewards and union men banging the drum - drivers who are happy banging the drum - desypete regurgitating the same dcpc stuff.

I worked with the royal mail lads when they have been striking over the last few years and I doubt you would have found a better close knit group nowadays did they win not really, which is my point.

too many wet drivers are on here and out there they have no clue and come on here asking some downright stupid questions before doing any form of research prior. how long to get to x, what should I do if… what do I take on a night out… what do stobarts pay… how do I apply for a job.

then add in the balls about eu drivers working for ££££ less than uk drivers as a recruitment consultant they all get paid the same from what I have seen and I have not seen anywhere who pays less for 1 driver than another.

finally for me the minimum wage is a huge part of the moans from drivers as they now see cleaners on £7.5 or whatever and all of a sudden decide we need to be paid £15 - the rates round here went up last oct due to the dcpc by round about £1 per hour.