war1974:
then add in the balls about eu drivers working for ££££ less than uk drivers as a recruitment consultant they all get paid the same from what I have seen and I have not seen anywhere who pays less for 1 driver than another.
You’ve missed the point that in a closed,therefore less supplied, labour market,wages in general would be higher.
so you keep saying carryfast and whilst you are older than me I can t recall any wonderful wages in the 80’s.
and whilst I am typing if you look at the salaries and income of some of these ‘hero’s’ such as Kinnock yes they are all for the working man - as long as they are on their big member funded salary.
war1974:
so you keep saying carryfast and whilst you are older than me I can t recall any wonderful wages in the 80’s.and whilst I am typing if you look at the salaries and income of some of these ‘hero’s’ such as Kinnock yes they are all for the working man - as long as they are on their big member funded salary.
That’s because you don’t wear the CF style rose tinted glasses, ahh the good old days. But he’s correct, in a closed, therefore less supplied labour market, wages would be higher. For the few that had jobs anyway as plenty companies would go pop. It’s pretty difficult to operate a transport company with zero drivers but as he’s not in the labour market anymore what does he care.
I feel a history lesson coming on, not nessessarily connected to this but will include, in no particular order, federalism, nationalism, Cameron, major,snp & not forgetting good ole nige.
I’ve never been in a union never had the need to . I didn’t like something I went to the rite people and got it sorted . what I will say is this its no good talking the talk walk the walk. We were on the cusp on the fuel crisis people backed down to soon and didn’t back it . if we got together and stuck together we would get change everything moves by road almost in UK . it pains me to say it but the French put us to shame they do it together . I’m nearing the twilight of my career I’ll show my arse in Burton’s window when we can do it
And if ■■? So until then put up shut up and crack on … Didn’t mean to offend sometimes truth hurts…
robroy:
Following on from the Union thread most people say that the unions are this and that, and reps and shop stewards as bad etc etc.
That is correct in many cases but not all. However on the other side of the coin what about the drivers they are meant to represent?
The solidarity thing is a joke as most (not all) drivers are a bunch of spineless yes men.
Look at some of the threads on here,.such as…My boss says I have to xyz in so many hours… what should I do.
. I have planners on my back watching my every move, pushing me too hard, …what should I do.
I have a camera in my cab I don’t think it’s right, …what should I do.
My boss won’t pay me nights out…what should I do.
They then go on to moan at everybody except who they should moan to, get no joy there, and moan and complain on here.ffs Grow a set and stand up for yourselves, I don’t mean militant Scargill style, or being a compIete arse refusing to do everything, that is even worse. I do mean putting your point of view forward politely and clearly with no effin & jeffin it does work …trust me.
As for sticking together in a union? well judging by what I have just said, I won’t hold my breath
Sorry I don’t get this, are you saying unions are a bad thing or are you saying drivers who want to keep their head down but still blow off steam to other people who may be in the same situation are the problem?
I’m in a union, mainly for the advice and support I can get if I need it, but I also stand up and tell my boss if I have a problem with something they are doing or have asked me to do, hence why I lost my last job.
But some people if they can’t see that kicking up a fuss will do anything, or if they can’t afford to lose their job or take a pay cut on agency just keep their head Down and get on with the job in hand.
desypete:
your bang on the button robroybut then just look at the cpc rubbish, drivers had the best chance of ever standing together on the bolox but what happened ? they all moaned about it but they still went off to get one like the good little boys they are, what were they scard of ? losing a job that pays crap money to a polish driver or worse another driver who might be a smart arse and think let the others make a stand i will get in there quick and steal there job
that is the measure of the men there are in transport today but to be fair its been like that ever since i can remember, i think one day many driver will just get ■■■■■■ off with it all and sod the job off like so many have done these days
in case anyone hasnt noticed there is a huge shortfall in drivers coming into the game the average age for drivers is now getting towards 50, the kids today take one look at whats on offer and head off to other jobs and who can blame them ?
only the mugs who have no others skills bother coming into driving now as its the only way they can make 400 quid a week or more but they have to do how many hours ? how many night out ?
well they deserve all they get in my book, it will not be long before the national minimum wage over takes drivers pay, the only reason driver make a living is because they have to do a weeks and half work in there week compared to other industry’s
but hey you all hear my moans about drivers all the time, you all know it bloody true
still good to have a rant on here about it but it will do nothing at all to change a dam thing
So did you do your cpc or did you Stand up and walk out?
Sorry if these have been covered, I got bored of reading
I have been looking for jobs recently,with not much success.I am spending up to 4 hours each day trying to sort out real jobs from the fake ones,you know the ones 22 HGV drivers required ASAP blah,blah,blah. Here’s the thing I just don’t get, and I blame the drivers for it.You apply for a job you get all the details and then you find out that you have to go and do an assessment.
This got me thinking because this is a sham,you wouldn’t ask a bricklayer to come round and lay bricks for you for 4-8 hours so you can “ASSESS” his work,yet I am finding more and more that all the major companies hiring want you to come in and do up to an 8 hour assessment.
So how has this happened, I don’t believe a word of the garbage I am being told.“Its for insurance purposes”,or they just want to see if you can drive. When I reply that I find this unfair,politely may I add,I am now the problem co’s I am not following the crowd.
The only way to “STOP” this is for the drivers to asked to be payed for these unreasonable hours to be assessed.Thoughts please.
1rustyspring:
I have been looking for jobs recently,with not much success.I am spending up to 4 hours each day trying to sort out real jobs from the fake ones,you know the ones 22 HGV drivers required ASAP blah,blah,blah. Here’s the thing I just don’t get, and I blame the drivers for it.You apply for a job you get all the details and then you find out that you have to go and do an assessment.
This got me thinking because this is a sham,you wouldn’t ask a bricklayer to come round and lay bricks for you for 4-8 hours so you can “ASSESS” his work,yet I am finding more and more that all the major companies hiring want you to come in and do up to an 8 hour assessment.
So how has this happened, I don’t believe a word of the garbage I am being told.“Its for insurance purposes”,or they just want to see if you can drive. When I reply that I find this unfair,politely may I add,I am now the problem co’s I am not following the crowd.
The only way to “STOP” this is for the drivers to asked to be payed for these unreasonable hours to be assessed.Thoughts please.
Assessment is part and parcel now, you and i and everyone else here knows that there’s an increasing number of licence holders out there that shouldn’t be allowed within a mile of a lorry, yet various twerps thought they were good enough to pass the test…which beggars another thread.
Why should a company be forced to pay people who are utterly unemployable to take an assessment, taken to its ultimate conclusion new drivers could use this method as a additional practice and the unemployable as a permanent wage path…these days of diversity and companies jumping through hoops certain groups of people could milk this very nicely.
If a job requires an assessment its fairly certain (or should be) that the job’s worth having**, if the applicant can’t be arsed to invest some time nor appear ‘keen’ enough to want the job, the employer will assume, probably correctly, that the applicant will be putting a lot less effort into the job once employed, so won’t bother employing.
**its a different case for agency drivers, they might have to take assessments yet never get sent to that client, obviously agency drivers should be paid for this, and inductions.
A useless bricklayer will be spotted within an hour of starting work, long before his incompetence could result in disaster.
Without an assessment, letting a monkey out in a lorry could have dire consequences if said monkey hurts people, the company concerned putting itself in the firing line through not taking adequate precautions.
Years ago it wasn’t like this because a monkey in most cases wouldn’t get the lorry out the gate in the first place…and the interviewer was usually a time served transport man/woman and knew the difference between a lorry driver and a monkey instinctively.
I pay if they pass simple as - I do this as some shouldn’t be allowed on an assessment imo, I have had drivers fail for speeding on assessment and more than a few miles an hour over, one pulled into the inside lane and didn’t check his mirrors etc. etc. some think Newcastle is in the south west of England, Nottingham is near Scotland, and whilst I know most will be using satnav how can you have so little an idea of basic geography.
So the answer is punish everyone,even if a driver has a bad day,the law states he has to pass a driving test which he has done if he has a license,no need for the unqualified to pass his bias judgement.I use the word bias because when I have agreed to an assessment,and that’s all it is,I have come across assessors who like you pass judgment on others.
The Industry that we are part of wants experienced drivers,but by your own admission they are not good enough for your company.How much money did you spend helping to train in areas where the driver needs it.An example of this is in your own findings,training on his speed and checking mirrors,not just to fob them off and not pay them.
Then punish us because some people make mistakes.Yeah that’s really fair,this industry doesn’t realize the cost to the driver getting to and from the place of assessment which In my case has been a 4 hour round trip the fuel costs are down to me and then a free 4 hour assessment,all this when I’m skint and struggling and want to work.
So here’s a question what is an assessment,what is an induction,and what is training.The reason why I ask this is because depending on time spent you should pay for all 3,sadly the industry hides behind the word assessment which should be exactly what is means assess not test induct or train.If an assessment was for 15-30 mins then fine you don’t have to pay but 4-8 hours is cheating drivers who like me may already be struggling for cash.
If you cant assess a driver in 15-30 mins then you are doing something wrong.
STICK UP FOR YOUR RIGHTS DRIVERS.
I will back any of my drivers to the hilt - providing they are professional, most assessor’s I have come across drive alongside this but they are also trained to assess to a set standard. I have never failed an assessment and if it was for something minor I will fight the corner trust me. what I wont do is fight for someone who think doing 40 in a 30 is acceptable knowing you are being assessed this is just stupid and whilst we need drivers someone else can deal with the stupid ones.
I have had a driver many years ago go past a school flat out, when I asked why it was because he wanted to get the assessment done quick. why should I try to train him? why cant people take some responsibility for their actions and careers? this is not just a driving problem but society, I grew up around transport I was lucky but once I passed my test I asked for advice/help, I went and looked at things like croners to make sure some of the rules I was unsure of I understood. we now have 95% of what drivers need to know online and via apps as a basic but still people don’t bother to learn.
I have invested time in training people before I have gone out myself on a sunday with new drivers to pass on advice on where to position the vehicle etc. what they should do in certain situations. I have helped guys get full time jobs by giving advice on what certain firms will look for in a driver.
1rustyspring:
I have been looking for jobs recently,with not much success.I am spending up to 4 hours each day trying to sort out real jobs from the fake ones,you know the ones 22 HGV drivers required ASAP blah,blah,blah. Here’s the thing I just don’t get, and I blame the drivers for it.You apply for a job you get all the details and then you find out that you have to go and do an assessment.
This got me thinking because this is a sham,you wouldn’t ask a bricklayer to come round and lay bricks for you for 4-8 hours so you can “ASSESS” his work,yet I am finding more and more that all the major companies hiring want you to come in and do up to an 8 hour assessment.
So how has this happened, I don’t believe a word of the garbage I am being told.“Its for insurance purposes”,or they just want to see if you can drive. When I reply that I find this unfair,politely may I add,I am now the problem co’s I am not following the crowd.
The only way to “STOP” this is for the drivers to asked to be payed for these unreasonable hours to be assessed.Thoughts please.
For insurance purposes might be strong wording but I think its just a way of saying the premiums are sky high and they want to make sure the person they are going to trust with their company image and £90,000 piece of kit is at least compatent. As you said,one bad day might go against you but passing the test might have been just a flukey good hour. When I was doing my C+E training my instructor was telling us he walked out of his previous job as a guy who was clearly struggling with the size of the vehicle was put up for test anyway. He wasnt at test standard but insisted and they put him up for it and he had a good hour and passed. The guy could barely drive a transit yet now he is on the road,unsupervised,with a lorry
If a bricklayer is found out,you just send him packing with a flea in his ear and tear the wall down. With hgv drivers,it might be they kill someone. Its a big difference.
I dont mind assessments since I have enough confidence in my ability to pass it no problem (apart from reversing when they give it the no more than 1 shunt guff. Who cares how many shunts it takes as long as its lined up with the ramp? And on the right bay! 
)
but Ive never been asked to do an assessment unpaid. If that is ever the case then,nope,not doing it. I dont mind as long as its paid but one thing I dont do and never have,never will do is unpaid overtime.
If your last sentance means what I think it does,that your expected to do these assessments unpaid,then I see your point and it sounds more like your agency bending you over and id say look for another one
1rustyspring.
You may be looking for a proper job for a very long time, you may never find one, your attitude if it’s anything like that written would put the better employers, who almost exclusively run happy ships, off…actually it beggars the question who’d be an employer.
No one is being punished, i believe war1974’s method of paying those who pass the assessment is fair, why should he pay someone who couldn’t make the standard.
Similarly why should a company or agency provide free training to someone who might not ever be good enough to be employed so long as they have a hole in their backside, or if they take them on spend a few weeks there doing damage whilst learning the ropes then bugger off the second it suits them.
In practice most assessors i’ve come across have been fair minded, though there will always be exceptions, you’re not expected to drive to test standards but you are expected to prove that you can inspect the vehicle so it goes out legally and safely, and your driving and vehicle handling up to a required standard.
The assessor won’t be in the job for long if he rejected everyone who crossed their arms on turns or missed the tacho recalibration label, they obviously also can’t let idiots through who will likely do umpteen thousands pounds worth of damage or worse still put the directors of the company in court for negligently employing half wits if it goes badly wrong, everyone now has a duty of care to abide by.
Yes it might seem a long time, and no doubt the average assessor will know by the time you’ve negotiated 3 roundabouts and a few junctions whether you can drive a lorry or not, but if the assessor terminated the test/induction at 30 mins instead of after a planned 4 hours an aggrieved applicant, especially one who happened to be in a minority group, could possibly make problems for the company…though i have known assessors abandon a test early when the applicant proved to be a menace on the road.
Yes some of the companies are no doubt slipping induction in with assessment, when that induction should be on your first paid day well such is life, if you get a £35k job for life out of giving up 4 hours of your time it’s not exactly hardship is it.
Again, it could be argued that during full induction once job started some applicants might realise its not for them and clear off, another cost the company could do without and have to start the search for new staff all over again.
I’ve had this when i’ve trained car transporter drivers, i didn’t get the choice of applicant just told to train them, some vanished after the first day, some had two weeks training never to be seen again, only one i refused after one day because he quite seriously had no clue how to drive a lorry, ■■■■■■ my gaffer off that did, someone else trained him and within weeks he smashed the lorry and load to pieces.
I don’t think you realise how difficult it is to find good staff now.
But if you as an applicant are not prepared to make the effort you won’t crack the better jobs.
juddian the last line makes the most sense - and to me that is a major part of the problem too many people want everything for nothing, I will help anyone I can if they have as you say put a bit of an effort in first.
war1974:
juddian the last line makes the most sense - and to me that is a major part of the problem too many people want everything for nothing, I will help anyone I can if they have as you say put a bit of an effort in first.
Exactly, if they can’t be arsed to make an effort to get a job then the clues are all in place for the company when considering them.
Shouldn’t even need to be discussed, just plain common sense.
the miners issue with mr Scargill (that others have noted earlier) was due to imo that mining was in decline and they were tryin to keep a huge industry goin that had no future and they were anti Thatcher . Truckers are in an industry that is not in decline but is ever expanding and the uk and europe depends heavily upon roads and transport by road to have the basics delivered daily …if drivers want to make their feelings known then either start a large petition (easy to do and free) and with more than a 100k signatures it has to be discussed at a certain level in government….or write to the haulage association. i dont think in the referendum in 2017 we will leave europe but negotiations for change are happening as we speak !
Frost89:
robroy:
Following on from the Union thread most people say that the unions are this and that, and reps and shop stewards as bad etc etc.
That is correct in many cases but not all. However on the other side of the coin what about the drivers they are meant to represent?
The solidarity thing is a joke as most (not all) drivers are a bunch of spineless yes men.
Look at some of the threads on here,.such as…My boss says I have to xyz in so many hours… what should I do.
. I have planners on my back watching my every move, pushing me too hard, …what should I do.
I have a camera in my cab I don’t think it’s right, …what should I do.
My boss won’t pay me nights out…what should I do.
They then go on to moan at everybody except who they should moan to, get no joy there, and moan and complain on here.ffs Grow a set and stand up for yourselves, I don’t mean militant Scargill style, or being a compIete arse refusing to do everything, that is even worse. I do mean putting your point of view forward politely and clearly with no effin & jeffin it does work …trust me.
As for sticking together in a union? well judging by what I have just said, I won’t hold my breathSorry I don’t get this, are you saying unions are a bad thing or are you saying drivers who want to keep their head down but still blow off steam to other people who may be in the same situation are the problem?
I’m in a union, mainly for the advice and support I can get if I need it, but I also stand up and tell my boss if I have a problem with something they are doing or have asked me to do, hence why I lost my last job.
But some people if they can’t see that kicking up a fuss will do anything, or if they can’t afford to lose their job or take a pay cut on agency just keep their head Down and get on with the job in hand.
Ok you don.t get it, so here goes. I do think that a ‘union’ (in the broader sense of the word) is a good thing for drivers, a group of united voices has more clout than a single one when it comes to looking after your rights and questioning unfair management. As for a trade Union they are looked upon as some kind Anti Christ of workers judging by some posts on here due to the situation in the 70s so a lot of damage limitation is needed for them to regain favour.
As for drivers keeping their heads down as you say. the difference is …there are guys keeping their heads down… and there are guys just taking it up the arse, the latter ie the spineless. is the reason there is not a ‘union’ ( not trade union) among drivers. So the former keep their heads down and look after no1 because of these guys, …as I do myself. Given the choice I would go for a stick together .‘union’
Hope that clarifies it.
but we have the RHA / FTA / URTU plus a good few more all of them ‘represent’ UK road haulage, its not like we have no options!
what we don’t need is someone else saying I know I will become the next union and we will change it, it wont change for various reasons already posted on here.
robroy:
united voices has more clout than a single one when it comes to l As for a trade Union they are looked upon as some kind Anti Christ of workers judging by some posts on here due to the situation in the 70s so a lot of damage limitation is needed for them to regain favour.
Ironically ‘the situation in the 1970’s’ was the place where unions needed/need to be to stand the slightest chance of being effective.The fact is there is no middle way in that regard.You either have what we had then with wages being kept in line with outgoings to maintain living standards or you don’t.While the history of the time is just a load of propaganda told from the side of a CBI driven agenda.Which follows an exploitative version of ‘Capitalism’ that is closer to Communism in its ideology of minimising wage levels with a stagnating economy to match. 
While if the Unions ( and the Labour Party ) did make a mistake it wasn’t the issue of so called ‘militancy’.It was/is the misguided idea that Socialism is the answer to the ‘wrong type’ of Capitalism.IE US unions have historically ( rightly ) been just as militant as Brit ones.‘But’ for different reasons which ( should be ) all about trying to keep the idea of Fordist Capitalism on track.Not trying to create a Socialist utopia.On that note Militancy is good just so long as it’s for the right reasons.Which is obviously a distinction which the Thatcherite cause has managed to divert in its continuing re writing of history and bs propaganda since the day. 
The labour party got taken over by professional agitators and communists, and latterly by champagne socialists with their own agendas, with the great anti leader lucifer blair a shining example of just what can go wrong when it reaches its logical conclusion.
The real labour party of old wasn’t far from a genuine conservative party, neither of which we now have, both are first and foremost patriots, and i’m not talking about politicians attending a sporting event they despise.
Ironically just like the modern tory party the current labour party apparatchiks despise the British genuine working class proletariat and i do not include the benefit class here, far from doing their best for them have between them done their level best to undermine them for the past 40 years, currently the method is replacement/displacement, the labour party especially have got it as wrong as its possible to be.
Working class people are stubborn and proud, they work for their livings giving a fair days work for a fair days pay, the current labour party campains on the politics of envy and fear, where the voters they woo and want are subservient to and rely on the state to subsidise their living, the real working class are too proud to take money they haven’t earned as handouts, lowering them to the benefit underclass…yes working people can be just as snobbish as the middle and upper echelons, never mistake a worker for a scrounger unless you want to get your ears syringed.
Working class people realise that labours version of robin hood of stealing enterpreneurs money to give to the bone idle and immigrants won’t make a viable economy, it will only drive away the people who make business work.
Tory version of economy of borrowed money to be repaid at some point in the future by the new middle class, who are actually working class but were somehow convinced they were middle class because they bought their own houses, won’t work either.
The trouble with the labour party is that it doesn’t attract the working class into its ranks and would never promote them or put them up for election, not many Beasts of Bolsover in their ranks.
For one thing working people tend to be too busy earning a living to go through the hoops, secondly soon as they open their mouths they’re in trouble they say the wrong things because they see whats going on at the coal face as it were and tell it how it is, thirdly working people tend to be supporters of free speech and have no time for PC or bullying, they wouldn’t give the current agitators and boot boys in UAF or Hope not Soap the time of day.
1rustyspring:
Then punish us because some people make mistakes.Yeah that’s really fair,this industry doesn’t realize the cost to the driver getting to and from the place of assessment which In my case has been a 4 hour round trip the fuel costs are down to me and then a free 4 hour assessment,all this when I’m skint and struggling and want to work.
Funnily enough it’s not only jobs driving trucks which entail some commitment and ‘speculate to accumulate’ thinking from would-be applicants. In fact, most jobs worth having do. The ball is completely in the employer’s court and so if it’s something that you consider unreasonable then just don’t go.