"Sorry Sir, ****** didn't make it"

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

Indeed,

Berlin was very heavily defended, and, for a city, had lots of wide roads and big parks. Not ideal for area bombing, and very difficult to set alight. Plus the planes were having to go a long distance across Germany to get there. Even the soil was so soft that many bombs didn’t go off - they are still digging them up now.

Ironically, it could be argued that the RAF repeated the same mistake the Germans made in 1940, when they switched from bombing southern airfields and hit London instead.

42

GasGas:
Indeed,

Berlin was very heavily defended, and, for a city, had lots of wide roads and big parks. Not ideal for area bombing, and very difficult to set alight. Plus the planes were having to go a long distance across Germany to get there. Even the soil was so soft that many bombs didn’t go off - they are still digging them up now.

Ironically, it could be argued that the RAF repeated the same mistake the Germans made in 1940, when they switched from bombing southern airfields and hit London instead.

Having had parents and relatives who lived through the Blitz on London and the Home Counties the effects on morale and the will to carry on of area bombing is often underestimated.The German bombing of our cities etc almost did cause revolt at least amongst London’s population with the knowledge that massive casualties were being covered up in the news reports.

The fact is war is a nasty buiness and arguably removing the bomb and incendiary loads in favour of just heavy parachute mines might have done more to create Harris’ intention of removing the population’s will to carry on by causing more casualties and terror.IE taking cover in an underground shelter was often no protection against the blast of an air mine.Bearing in mind the difference in payload between a Lancaster v a Heinkel they could probably have multiplied the damage of the German examples by a massive amount IE maybe two 4000 lb parachute mines per Lancaster as opposed to two 2,000 lb in the case of the Heinkel. :bulb: :open_mouth:

ww2today.com/21st-september- … chute-mine

wickfordhistory.org.uk/page_ … 4p70p.aspx

43

mr2lad:
‘…617 Sqn are based up my way at RAF Lossiemouth …’

Top Tip: Give their Boss a ring & ask ‘…is that the Dumb bas*ards…?’

It worked every time & he’ll love you

Not

:wink:

44

bigdave789:
‘…Guy Gibson’s Black Labrador was knocked over and mortally wounded on the same road in 1943…’

And having been dug up umpteen times throughout the Cold War and since - mostly by herberts on beer-fuelled high jinx, my search for it around Scampton in 1996 concluded that (ahem) “Digger’s” final resting place is now a (probably classified) mystery :unamused:

45

Quinny:

limeyphil:
Actually, They are using the same “N” name in the remake.

That’s news to me, and I have been following it closely.

You might find that the letter they are using, is not ‘N’ but ‘D’

I know it’s now classed as racist, but why try to change history?

Ken.

Why would you name a dog after a JCB? It got its famous name because it was black.

We also have to thank the Australian pilots. :wink: Cheese kept them going.

toastabag1.jpg

46

Haw haw, that’s the stuff I was on about earlier, imagine trying to sell that in the uk, flipped over & done dry im thinking.

47

lincsaviation.co.uk/events/S … ration.htm

48

cav551:
http://www.lincsaviation.co.uk/events/Special-Events/the-nuremberg-raid-commemoration.htm

Spelt crescendo & taxi wrong. :blush:
(note to self;gotta get out more)

49

Slackbladder:

■■■■■■■:
I thought the only people who used the “N” word these days were actually american bloods/cripps/gangbangers when referring to their compatriots - if you follow me.
Chris Rock used it all the time onstage, so its rather confusing when its considered racist when used by white folk.
Agatha Christie would turn in her grave!

It must be the freedoms that people fought wars for, to be reduced to having to say the N word because some people don’t like the word [zb]. We can’t have golliwogs on our jam jars, I used to collect them as a kid, because it offends some people. We cannot watch the black & white minstrel show because it offends some people. I find it odd that nobody complains when non white people call white people names. Daughter works with a black lass, she calls white people snowflakes or chicken skins & nothing is said, yet when someone said she looked a little pale when coming in with a hangover they got warned abut their future conduct! When I was in Australia they had a cheese by the name of [zb] cheese, nobody bothered about that.
I believe in calling a spade a spade & will not be held accountable for, or feel guilty about slavery.

It’s not because the word offends the minority. It’s because a gobby section of the majority think it might offend.

I have a good number of friends who I would describe as black. They describe themselves as ■■■■■ (apparently it means king)

I think the problem we are facing is that white people fear offending minorities who really couldn’t give a toss what we call them.

I live in Dorset, the home of casual racism, the minorities down here care not one ■■■■ what they are called in the main, I think they’d object if we started attacking them though.

As for Guy Gibson and the rest of 617 I couldn’t care less how arrogant and snobbish they were and it shouldn’t matter, judge a man on his actions for his country NOT for his attitude whilst doing it.

To those who believe decency and honour died with the WW2 veterans, think on, there’s blokes and woman out there now doing similarly brave and honourable things in different ways

Nurses
Old Bill
Paramedics
Firefighters
Doctors
Soldiers
Sailors
Airmen

If you can’t stand behind our forces, go stand in front of them.

Yes the country and the world is in ■■■■ order in the main, but there are still a few doing things for the many, that the many are ungrateful for, just as they were in WW1 and WW2 and every war and conflict since.

There’s probably even lorry drivers out there doing something decent and honourable with no praise and no one knows any different.

How many Veterans of any war wander around drawing attention to themselves? None in my experience it’s all done quietly with no expectation of praise.

50

Well said Tipper Tom.

51

Tipper Tom:
‘…How many Veterans of any war wander around drawing attention to themselves…?’

Remembrance Sunday (?) …and good on them too :exclamation:

52

Is Remembrance Day about look at me or is it about remember THEM?

Fair point though

53

My mother, who lived well into her 90s had a friend who I met on many occasions. It was only after a chance remark that I discovered that this friend had spent most of WW2 delivering aeroplanes from the factories to the airfields.

Someone upthread mentioned the difficulty of navigating. Imagine if you will, taking the train and bus to somewhere like Castle Bromwich, collecting a brand new spitfire and flying it at night, across a totally blacked-out country, to a field in Kent. Then catching a train to oldham to collect a Lancaster for delivery to Lincolnshire - no sat nav and no radar, just a map spread on her lap, using railway lines and rivers to find the way. That is what she and her friends did, night after night in all kinds of weather. It is no surprise that many of them lost their lives.

54

Until he died 5 years ago, I was friends with a man called Les Sayer. He was the TAG (Telegraphist Air Gunner) on the Swordfish aircraft which hit the Bismarck. He was always very modest talking about it, giving all the credit to the pilot and observer - but when you got him to tell the story, you were absolutely spellbound. He published a book a few years ago, which is well worth a read -‘Tag on a Stringbag’, where he collected stories from other veterans, and published the book to raise funds for the Old TAGs Association. A true gent, and I still miss the evenings sitting round the fire with a glass of beer listening to him talk.

Gary

55

^^^Sadly so many of the old and bold are long departed and we’ve lost so many of this experiences.

We’re left in my opinion much the poorer for not only their passing but for the loss of the memories aswell.

My grandfather was on the HMS Hood escaped the sinking by losing a finger the day before she sailed. Takes of rowing to Egypt and walking to Cairo and returning to England and volunteering to set sail again.

Brave ain’t the word

56

teatime:
and the last time I watched the film ( over Christmas )on C5 the dogs name was correctly pronounced.

Yes I agree … saw it and enjoyed it … was surprised at the reference … but just accepted it … as how times have changed in the spirit of the original film :sunglasses:

57

scaniason:
Until he died 5 years ago, I was friends with a man called Les Sayer. He was the TAG (Telegraphist Air Gunner) on the Swordfish aircraft which hit the Bismarck. He was always very modest talking about it, giving all the credit to the pilot and observer - but when you got him to tell the story, you were absolutely spellbound. He published a book a few years ago, which is well worth a read -‘Tag on a Stringbag’, where he collected stories from other veterans, and published the book to raise funds for the Old TAGs Association. A true gent, and I still miss the evenings sitting round the fire with a glass of beer listening to him talk.

Gary

thanks for that: just finished reading various obits etc on him via Google.

58

Sorry to resurrect, but a friend just reminded me of a story that Les used to tell, and I thought I’d post it here, as it may amuse some. I’ll do it in Les’s voice, as far as I can:

'We were on our way to Malta, to deliver some Hurricanes, and stopped over at Gibraltar. The Sunday before we got there, there was a Church Service for the crew on board. Because they had been flying through the night on ops, I told my TAGs (Les was a CPO in charge of the TAGs on board) that they didn’t need to attend. This upset somebody higher up, and when we got to Gib I found myself in charge of the guard every night.

One night the MPs brought in a soldier, worse for wear, who had started a fight. I talked to him to find out what the problem was, and it turned out that he had wanted to join the Navy, but had been put into the Army, and was rebelling against it. With some sympathy, I calmed him down a bit, and asked him if he would behave if I let him join the Navy whilst our ship was in Port. He was drunk enough to agree, so I got a spare hat which had been handed in as lost, put it on his head, and made up a pledge which I got him to repeat, then pronounced him in the Navy, and sent him home to bed.

A day later we headed off to Malta, and delivered the Hurricanes.

On the way back we received a signal. ordering us to return to Gib, so that CPO Les Sayer could attend a Court Martial. More than a little worried, I attended, and was asked ‘Do you know this man?’ I said I didn’t, and was asked if I remembered pledging him into the Navy. It turns out that when he left the guardroom, and was staggering his way across to the barracks, he passed a senior officer, who he ignored. When the officer shouted at him ‘You horrible little man, don’t you salute a senior officer?’ our hero replied ‘You’re in the Army, I’m in the Navy now, ■■■■ off!’

Fortunately the CM saw the funny side for me, and I got away with it!’

Had me in stitches when he told me, in that natural storytelling way that he had.

Another one, which raised a lump, was after the war. Les had joined an airline as a radio op, and was in a bar with the rest of the flight crew in Germany, and had told them about the Bismarck, when a German guy excused himself and asked Les to wait there for a few minutes. Fearing the worst when the guy came back, he said he had tears in his eyes when the guy explained that his father had died on the Bismarck, and he wanted Les to have his father’s watch, as a keepsake and a reminder why we must never go to war again. They both parted as friends, and indeed kept in contact for many years. Les always said that he liked and respected the Germans immensely.

Sorry if this has rambled on a bit, but hope you’ve found it interesting.

Gary

59

scaniason:
Sorry to resurrect, but a friend just reminded me of a story that Les used to tell, and I thought I’d post it here, as it may amuse some. I’ll do it in Les’s voice, as far as I can:

'We were on our way to Malta, to deliver some Hurricanes, and stopped over at Gibraltar. The Sunday before we got there, there was a Church Service for the crew on board. Because they had been flying through the night on ops, I told my TAGs (Les was a CPO in charge of the TAGs on board) that they didn’t need to attend. This upset somebody higher up, and when we got to Gib I found myself in charge of the guard every night.

One night the MPs brought in a soldier, worse for wear, who had started a fight. I talked to him to find out what the problem was, and it turned out that he had wanted to join the Navy, but had been put into the Army, and was rebelling against it. With some sympathy, I calmed him down a bit, and asked him if he would behave if I let him join the Navy whilst our ship was in Port. He was drunk enough to agree, so I got a spare hat which had been handed in as lost, put it on his head, and made up a pledge which I got him to repeat, then pronounced him in the Navy, and sent him home to bed.

A day later we headed off to Malta, and delivered the Hurricanes.

On the way back we received a signal. ordering us to return to Gib, so that CPO Les Sayer could attend a Court Martial. More than a little worried, I attended, and was asked ‘Do you know this man?’ I said I didn’t, and was asked if I remembered pledging him into the Navy. It turns out that when he left the guardroom, and was staggering his way across to the barracks, he passed a senior officer, who he ignored. When the officer shouted at him ‘You horrible little man, don’t you salute a senior officer?’ our hero replied ‘You’re in the Army, I’m in the Navy now, [zb] off!’

Fortunately the CM saw the funny side for me, and I got away with it!’

Had me in stitches when he told me, in that natural storytelling way that he had.

Another one, which raised a lump, was after the war. Les had joined an airline as a radio op, and was in a bar with the rest of the flight crew in Germany, and had told them about the Bismarck, when a German guy excused himself and asked Les to wait there for a few minutes. Fearing the worst when the guy came back, he said he had tears in his eyes when the guy explained that his father had died on the Bismarck, and he wanted Les to have his father’s watch, as a keepsake and a reminder why we must never go to war again. They both parted as friends, and indeed kept in contact for many years. Les always said that he liked and respected the Germans immensely.

Sorry if this has rambled on a bit, but hope you’ve found it interesting.

Gary

dont appologise gary,top stuff that is!!

60

Thanks for that Gary!