Wildrover:
617 Sqn are still banned from flying over German airspace to this day. Nice to know it still irks 'em.
Nice one,like it!
I thought the only people who used the “N” word these days were actually american bloods/cripps/gangbangers when referring to their compatriots - if you follow me.
Chris Rock used it all the time onstage, so its rather confusing when its considered racist when used by white folk.
Agatha Christie would turn in her grave!
Is ‘Ten green bottles’ colour prejudiced?
Roughly five years ago, a long forgotten and overgrown memorial to those connected with the local Boy Scouts movement who had died in WW2, was restored and officially reconsecrated in Tovil near Maidstone. There is a short list of roughly half a dozen names commemorated, in the middle of which is Guy Penrose Gibson.
The very touching memorial gives the appearance of being a sort of grotto dug out of the ragstone wall of what was at one time a quarry. This is on the site of the now long-gone Reeds paper mill on the corner of Straw Mill Hill, which is now a small housing estate.
I have looked in vain for pictures of this on the web, but it is there somewhere.
I lost a very close friend on 13th december last year . he was 95 years old , ex raf aircrew .he flew a full tour ( 32 sorties )in wellingtons and lancasters , part as a tail gunner and then remustered as flight engineer . I talked to him for hours about his experiences and got some insight into their lives . he would never mention the friends he lost in action , just the casual " there was always plenty of eggs and bacon left over at breakfast " . that might sound callous to most people , but it was the only way to face up to things knowing that it could be them tomorrow night . he was stationed at scamp ton at the same time as 617 were there , but with a different squadron and his opinion of guy gibson was well short of complimentary . when he refused a second tour ( aircrew were all volunteers and couldn’t be ordered to do it )the raf sent him to the far east where he flew over kohima and over to burma resupplying the ground forces . he was shot down twice into the sea , and had part of his foot shot off , but after the war he sold his campaign medals to finance his marriage , " that life was over and i wanted to forget it ". sorry to go on , but i wonder , would our generation have been up to it ?
If only those selfless old sweats had known Blighty would turn into this theyd’ve joined the other side…
rigsby:
. . . but i wonder, would our generation have been up to it ?
I think we all know the answer to that one.
Stan
Stanley Knife:
rigsby:
. . . but i wonder, would our generation have been up to it ?I think we all know the answer to that one.
Stan
Actually I disagree. Desperate times breed desperate people. I have nothing but deep admiration and respect for the generation that not only fought in but also kept the home fires burning in our many conflicts over the years. I would say it was less to do with that particular generation and more to do with the much vaunted British fighting spirit that produced these heroes.
You only have to look at the youth of today, much maligned as hoodie wearing feckless yobs, but take the yob away from the street corner, give him discipline, goals and self respect and he is capable of such acts of selfless bravery and humanity it would bring tears to your eyes.
Acouple of interesting facts if I may about the fim and Guy Gibson V.C.
When he was invited to form 617 he was awarded a bar to his D.S.O. (a second medal worn as a clasp on his first)
Arther Harris wrote: “any Captain who completes 172 sorties in outstanding manner is worth two DSOs if not a VC. Bar to DSO approved”.
A tour was 30 sorties and very few crews made that.
Bare in mind he was only 24, 25 when they attcked the Dams and 26 when he died.
During the filming the Lancasters were brought from R.A.F. Carlisle (now Stobarts) were they were waiting to be scrapped and rented for £100 per day. (including crew)
Soem of the priginal dams crews are in the film and flew the Lancasters for filming.
They were banned from at least one RAF camp for damgerous flying reportedly when a C.O. looked out of his window and saw a Lanc go past at eye level.
Richard Todd who played Gibson V.C. in the film was a paratrooper in WW2.
In the film the longest day he plays Major John Howard who captures Pegasus Bridge.
In the film a Captain reports to him that the Parachute Regiment has landed in real life that was Richard Todd so he plays a man who is being reported to by a man playing him.
Nier was named after the colour Nier Black as he is black nothing more than that.
The dog in the film is played by an RAF police dog called ni**er.
Todd tried to adopt him after the film but the RAF wouldn’t let him.
By the end of filming Todd and Robert Shaw (he played his flight engineer) could start and taxi a Lancaster and run it at full speed down the runway.
They had a real pilot on the floor shouting instructions and they thought that they could have got one of the ground given a bit more instruction.
When filming over the Derwent Dam they threw toilet rolls out of the lancaster to prove they could still hit the dam.
The best tale of snobbery I ever heard was reportedly to be about Mick Mannock V.C.
He was awareded 3 Military Crosses and a DSO by the king while on leave in London.
On that day he reported to the the air ministery to check on his posting.
The Sqn he was due to be posted to (32?) refused to entertain him as they only excepted pilots who’d been to Harrow or Eton.
He was posted to another Sqn where he was awarded teh V.C.
the maoster:
Stanley Knife:
rigsby:
. . . but i wonder, would our generation have been up to it ?I think we all know the answer to that one.
You only have to look at the youth of today, much maligned as hoodie wearing feckless yobs, but take the yob away from the street corner, give him discipline, goals and self respect and he is capable of such acts of selfless bravery and humanity it would bring tears to your eyes.
In your disagreement you’ve just added reason to why this generation would not cut it. You should not have to give someone discipline, goals and self respect to attain such acts, they should be built in.
Stan
^^^^^^ what, and everybody just prior to WW2 had this respect from birth? Careful you don’t scratch them nice rose coloured spectacles!
when my friend finished his training "bomber " harris gave them a pep talk . the army and navy fight a battle every few months , you men will fight a battle every time you take off was the gist of it . he also told them that their average life expectancy was about 3 weeks .old john ( my friend ) said he was bricking it every time they flew , as the chances of getting out of the turret , finding his parachute in the dark , putting it on and then baling out were slim to none .
■■■■■■■:
I thought the only people who used the “N” word these days were actually american bloods/cripps/gangbangers when referring to their compatriots - if you follow me.
Chris Rock used it all the time onstage, so its rather confusing when its considered racist when used by white folk.
Agatha Christie would turn in her grave!
It must be the freedoms that people fought wars for, to be reduced to having to say the N word because some people don’t like the word ■■■■■■■ We can’t have golliwogs on our jam jars, I used to collect them as a kid, because it offends some people. We cannot watch the black & white minstrel show because it offends some people. I find it odd that nobody complains when non white people call white people names. Daughter works with a black lass, she calls white people snowflakes or chicken skins & nothing is said, yet when someone said she looked a little pale when coming in with a hangover they got warned abut their future conduct! When I was in Australia they had a cheese by the name of ■■■■ cheese, nobody bothered about that.
I believe in calling a spade a spade & will not be held accountable for, or feel guilty about slavery.
See! It’s not even allowed on here. The first word rhymes with ships rigger and the second one is the last 4 letters of racoon.
Very surreptitious SB!! How well I remember proudly arranging my completed jazz band and footie team on my bedroom shelf! (was the only reason we bought Robertsons jam!) Havent got a clue where they disappeared to, but Ill bet full sets fetch a pretty penny to collectors these days. Dont forget weve also evolved from blackboard through to whiteboard and finally arrived at “information” board! Bloody laughable!
Having been a Fighter pilot during the First World War, flying over the battlefield of Passchendaele, Sir Arthur Harris was so influenced by the slaughter (200,000) that he was determined to prevent its repetition in WW2, hence his determination to pursue a different course with Bomber Command.
Sadly the consequence of which was that it was his young men who suffered the same level of casualties as had junior officers in WW1.
Canada contributed the largest percentage of Commonwealth airmen for Bomber Command; nearly 60% of whom were killed.
During the Nuremberg raid, for which we shall shortly be commemorating the 70th anniversary on the night of March 30th/31st, 96 aircraft were lost. The RAF suffered more casualties (over 500 killed) in this one night than during the entire Battle of Britain.
Two sobering quotes, the first referring to the chances of aircrew survival in 1944:
“The elite of the Second World War generation had volunteered to fly and, in the attrition of 1944, found that the likelihood of survival in the bomber was so slim they were no more substantial than men of air, ghosts already, waiting to vanish this night or the next.” ‘Men of Air’. Kevin Wilson
The second from ‘They called it Passchendaele’ by Lyn Macdonald about the Ypres battles :
“By 1920(Ypres) was becoming a boom mecca of the first mass-explosion of tourism in history…they regarded themselves as less as visitors than as pilgrims. They were mostly women these Pilgrims. Some of them were accompanied by a husband, or a father, or a son. More often by a sister or a daughter because their husbands and sons were already here. A whole generation of young men lay buried beneath the Flanders mud.”
I have always found either of these difficult to read in one go.
in reply to the above posters that mention the stalag luft-my mother worked for a man who was part of the great escape from stalg luft 3- norman "conk"canton dfc, obe. he was one of the tunnellers and a prolific escaper,but wasnt allowed to break out with the rest of the great escapers due to his tunnelling abillities,much to his disgust.this decision by the escape committee possibly saved his life.he is mentioned several times in the paul brickhill book “the great escape” and very kindly signed the book for me before he died .i have viewed his pilots logbooks,very impressive!!
he was reffered to by my mum and the rest of our family as the “wingco”-wing commander .
i feel very lucky to have been so close to part of popular history as this. google him.
and if any members on here are genuinely interested in the actions of the lancasters and crew of bomber command in ww2,there is a book called “lancaster target” written by jack currie dfc.its available on ebay for a couple of quid,utterly brilliant!! places you right in the action.search for jack currie on you tube aswell-some fantastic stuff on there.
If you’ve found this thread interesting, watch this film
youtube.com/watch?v=ujLVIlESNGE
Shows it as it happened…and it’s in colour.
Most of the raids on Berlin cost the RAF more than the damage they did to Germany’s capital…but that in no way detracts from the stoic courage of the crews.
GasGas:
If you’ve found this thread interesting, watch this filmyoutube.com/watch?v=ujLVIlESNGE
Shows it as it happened…and it’s in colour.
Most of the raids on Berlin cost the RAF more than the damage they did to Germany’s capital…but that in no way detracts from the stoic courage of the crews.
the raids on cologne and hamburg were a bit more effective…