So in 5 Years, Minimum Wages

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

What the Chinese have as “cheap labour” surely applies to the white collar workers of China…

In the third world on the other hand, the “cheap labour” only applies to NON white collar workers.

Government ministers in even the most fruity of banana republics - are well-educated, well-paid, and of course over-bribed by the west - and are nothing like their rank and file workers, except in gender and colour.

If we see a Chinese person in this country, they’ll probably be either a student or a tourist.

If we see someone with the proverbial “olive complexion” though? - They’ll more likely be a benefit claimaint, rarely a single female, of doubtful immigration status, and very unlikely to speak sufficient English to be of much economic use in this country. Even the NHS has it’s problems due to mis-understandings between it’s staff with shortcomings in English - and the patients who continue to be systemically neglected - not just from “lack of funds” that has a tendency to be blamed all the time instead…

62

Harry Monk:

BillyHunt:
No the issue is the fact that the south has always lorded it over the North, telling all & sundry how good it is, how high the pay is & how plentiful the jobs & housing are. Well now you can just keep sucking it up for us. I’m loving it.

What on earth are you talking about? The pay for an HGV driver is no higher in the south of England than it is in Yorkshire, Lancashire etc, but the cost of basic housing is two or three times as much. Why would anybody “lord it” about having to hand over the majority of their wages just to have a roof over their head?

I’d be quite happy to debate this with you when you have sobered up.

If you’re telling me that class 1 drivers in the south are on £7:50-£9 ph then they’re even dumber that I thought they were, and that’s pretty dumb. Where are all these mythical £15-£20 ph jobs people on here keep banging on about? A thread last week was full of drivers saying £1000a week is possible! Not up here it’s not, well not for driving it’s not.
Oh, and I don’t drink.

63

If inflation remains the same as it is now(about 0%)your money will be worth as much in 2020 as it is now.

64

commonrail:
If inflation remains the same as it is now(about 0%)your money will be worth as much in 2020 as it is now.

But as everyone knows ‘inflation’ figures are selectively based on the price of groceries in the large supermarkets usually being sold as a loss leader together with loads of emphasis on short term downward fluctuations in oil prices amongst whatever other signs they can use to make the figures look good.While other types of inconvenient living costs which don’t fit the script are taken out of the calculations.Usually reflected by the latest news of housing costs,and domestic services etc etc ‘going up by more than the ( official ) rate of inflation’.That ‘official’ rate of inflation being nothing more than load of lies for the gullible to believe.That’s in addition to the fact of the lie that inflation is wage led when the fact is higher wages just mean higher economic activety and growth.With inflation being price led and only a problem if/when incomes don’t keep pace with it.

65

Oh right

66

commonrail:
If inflation remains the same as it is now(about 0%)your money will be worth as much in 2020 as it is now.

A proper measure of “inflation” would be a paradigm of (wages index) minus (the cost of living index). A Wages bracket not earned by at least 1% of the population are left out of the equation.
Like any proper statistic, one also leaves out those earning the very highest wages, and those earning below (not “spot on”) the minimum wage.

Thus, if wages are stagnant, and the cost of living rises 1.5% - then overall “inflation” would still be 1.5%. An easy way to pass off bad news under the guise of a false assumption then…

If wages fall 10% and the cost of living is flat though - then “inflation” as measured by the purchasing power of the wages for the same job - would actually be PLUS 11.1%.
Wages deflation rhus impacts the overall factorial as much as the same as cost of living inflation.

NO one is predicting just how much wages in rank-and-file jobs are expected to FALL by 2020 to make this calculation with any degree of accuracy.
This brand has always been considered totally toxic for politicians and bankers alike - politicians because they know they won’t be re-elected if they tell you “You’ll be worse off under us in five years time” and toxic for bankers too - because money is loaned out based on the myth of perpetual inflation - which makes debts easier to pay as time rolls by, due to the anticipated real-terms pay rises that for ordinary workers - have been non-existant for some time already.

In a “deflation” economy as we have now - debts are only going to get HARDER to pay, hence why interest rates cannot and will not go anywhere - because the public cannot afford even the slightest rise in them. A mass default by the public, so the banksters actually go under - would rescue the public from their dictatorship at last. It is the banks however that have the most influence upon governments - even more than the 4th estate (media) does. All the time they are running the show (even under this Chancellor’s Mate Carney running the Bank of England now!) - interest rates can no longer be moved around for political gain. Governments rather than the banks will rise and fall based upon the government’s adherence to the bank’s interest - rather than the other way around.
This is exactly what has just happened in Greece of course. Syriza in the end lacked the creative financial genius (once Varoufakis resigned) to get the job done.

Varoufakis perhaps should have started up a Euro printing programme, and forced the EU to boot Greece out by which point the debt would have been erased by printing the creditor’s own currency - which could hardly be hyper-inflated to thwart such a bold scheme!

The cost of living fell sharply in 1992-1995 due to the recession at that time. Driver wages however rose sharply during the mid 90’s for agency in particular.
My suggestion is that the mid 90’s were a golden age for drivers on agency. Who on here has fond memories of coining it in at places like Safeways, or driving tippers for the road crews?
Labour winning in 1997 put a stop to “labour shortages” by the introduction of mass immigration. Things have been on the wane regarding driver wages in real terms ever since. :frowning:

67

Winseer:

commonrail:
If inflation remains the same as it is now(about 0%)your money will be worth as much in 2020 as it is now.

A proper measure of “inflation” would be a paradigm of (wages index) minus (the cost of living index). A Wages bracket not earned by at least 1% of the population are left out of the equation.
Like any proper statistic, one also leaves out those earning the very highest wages, and those earning below (not “spot on”) the minimum wage.

Thus, if wages are stagnant, and the cost of living rises 1.5% - then overall “inflation” would still be 1.5%. An easy way to pass off bad news under the guise of a false assumption then…

If wages fall 10% and the cost of living is flat though - then “inflation” as measured by the purchasing power of the wages for the same job - would actually be PLUS 11.1%.
Wages deflation rhus impacts the overall factorial as much as the same as cost of living inflation.

NO one is predicting just how much wages in rank-and-file jobs are expected to FALL by 2020 to make this calculation with any degree of accuracy.
This brand has always been considered totally toxic for politicians and bankers alike - politicians because they know they won’t be re-elected if they tell you “You’ll be worse off under us in five years time” and toxic for bankers too - because money is loaned out based on the myth of perpetual inflation - which makes debts easier to pay as time rolls by, due to the anticipated real-terms pay rises that for ordinary workers - have been non-existant for some time already.

In a “deflation” economy as we have now - debts are only going to get HARDER to pay, hence why interest rates cannot and will not go anywhere - because the public cannot afford even the slightest rise in them. A mass default by the public, so the banksters actually go under - would rescue the public from their dictatorship at last. It is the banks however that have the most influence upon governments - even more than the 4th estate (media) does. All the time they are running the show (even under this Chancellor’s Mate Carney running the Bank of England now!) - interest rates can no longer be moved around for political gain. Governments rather than the banks will rise and fall based upon the government’s adherence to the bank’s interest - rather than the other way around.
This is exactly what has just happened in Greece of course. Syriza in the end lacked the creative financial genius (once Varoufakis resigned) to get the job done.

Varoufakis perhaps should have started up a Euro printing programme, and forced the EU to boot Greece out by which point the debt would have been erased by printing the creditor’s own currency - which could hardly be hyper-inflated to thwart such a bold scheme!

The cost of living fell sharply in 1992-1995 due to the recession at that time. Driver wages however rose sharply during the mid 90’s for agency in particular.
My suggestion is that the mid 90’s were a golden age for drivers on agency. Who on here has fond memories of coining it in at places like Safeways, or driving tippers for the road crews?
Labour winning in 1997 put a stop to “labour shortages” by the introduction of mass immigration. Things have been on the wane regarding driver wages in real terms ever since. :frowning:

Firstly as a rough calculation my wages working for certainly a reasonably paid job increased by an average of around less than 5% per year between 1985-1999.While a gallon of petrol,which has always been as good a guide as any as to living costs in general,went from less than £2.00 per gallon to around £3.50 for the equivalent grade.While housing costs remained way out of reach and had I not been living with parents I would have been technically homeless reliant on the mercies of state housing.

As for ‘deflation’ what we ‘actually’ have is a stagnant incomes environment with effectively zero disposable spending power and resulting economic growth to match.

In an economy in which what does get spent goes on imports of manufactured goods.Paid for by ‘money’ earn’t in a mostly service industry based economy.With a trade deficit to match.The result being that a pound is worth peanuts IE not enough to buy a litre of petrol/diesel or a Sunday tabloid newspaper and worth about a third of its value v the Swiss Franc compared to 1985.None of which matches the definition of ‘deflation’ which would logically result in an increase in the value of a pound both domestically and internationally.The fact is we’re heading for the fate of Greece big time the only question is when.

68

You have got to love Google, everyone’s an expert on everything.

69

BillyHunt:
You have got to love Google, everyone’s an expert on everything.

Yeh. I wonder if it’s possible to NOT get a degree - from theory gleaned off the internet.

Google doesn’t help much with the proper, tough-to-get science and practical degrees though - because you will be breaking real stuff (engineering) blowing real stuff up (Chemistry) Failing to get real stuff to work (Physics) and killing something once alive (Biology) or even bringing something back to life that’s died… (Franken… I mean medical degree).

:unamused:

70

Winseer:
because you will be breaking real stuff (engineering)

If only… :unamused:

It’s more like 3 years of applied maths mate. Didn’t get our hands dirty once, I hated it all…

71

Evil8Beezle:

Winseer:
because you will be breaking real stuff (engineering)

If only… :unamused:

It’s more like 3 years of applied maths mate. Didn’t get our hands dirty once, I hated it all…

The difference is that it’s maths in which the figures have to add up and have to be told like it is.Whereas if those maths were ‘applied’ in the way we’re running the economy bridges would collapse and planes would be falling out of the sky. :bulb:

In this case the question as to why was the pound worth more than 8 DM in 1970 but now it’s only worth not much more than 1 Euro being that the Euro is obviously based on the best case German economy just as the DM was.While bearing in mind that even the best case scenario could only have been that both countries met in the middle of almost 400% German deflation and almost 400% UK inflation over that period to account for that figure.However we know that Germany hasn’t gone through any process of deflation at all so that can only mean an average UK inflation rate at least around 15% pa over that period to account for that devaluation in the value of a pound.Which might just be a spot on reflection in the value of uk freehold property v the value of the currency.Let alone the fact that a Daily Mirror now takes around 2,400% more to buy than it did in 1970.Which makes the Euro exchange rate look like A bargain. :bulb:

72

We can’t go thinking that Sterling is the only currency in the world to depreciate against other currencies.

An exchange rate of 8 DM down to 4 in 1982 and 2 in 1992 does not reflect the fact that a packet of ■■■■ in Germany was 3DM when the exchange rate was 8 to the pound, 4DM in 1982, and 6DM in 1992. Not only has the currency got more expensive in terms of how many can be purchased with a pound - but the Germans have inflation of their own that’s pushing general prices higher - just as our domestic prices moved higher over the same period.

Even after the drop from 3DM to the pound to 2DM on Black Wednesday - Domestic prices did NOT rise or fall by a third in either country - only the exchange rate moved.

A similar thing happened more recently when the Bank of Switzerland removed it’s peg to 1.20 CHF to the Euro - and saw it rocket by over 10% before falling back due to “intervention” which is nothing more than rigging the market when it moves the way the banking system does not like…

You watch in the coming weeks just how HARD it will be for the EURGBP exchange rate, currently sitting just above 70p, to get BELOW 70p…
There is a huge wall of ECB money supporting the Euro against falling through this level vs the pound.
I suspect the Bank of England is already under instructions from the ECB to “buy some Euros” each time they dip lower, as they have been in recent weeks.
That support on the BoE’s part seems to be wearing a bit thin though: After all, Buy 10 billion quids worth of Euros for Sterling and see them drop 10% = Instant loss of a billion quid!
No different from Black Wednesday 1992… :exclamation:

73

Firstly the the value of the currency is just a reflection of the level of industrial strength.While it seems obvious that there is a lag as to when the effects of falling currency values filter down into the domestic prices v incomes equation.I’d guess that when you’re in the position of going from when a newspaper worth the old 6d is now valued at around an old 12 shillings and when we’ve got a pound v Euro exchange rate of almost 1 to 1 that was at worse 8 to 1 in our favour and bearing in mind just those two signs,amongst other confirmation like property values,suggest a currency value going through the floor.With incomes and therefore tax revenues falling even faster over the same period,you just know that we’re heading for the same situation as Greece sooner or later.Which isn’t surprising considering the level of de industrialisation we’ve had during the same period and the resulting trade deficit in manufactured goods.Which can only be paid for in the form of ever more borrowed or printed money that is ever more also at the same time reducing in value.In that environment it’s no wonder that wages seem to falling in real terms at an ever increasing rate.

74

Carryfast:
Firstly the the value of the currency is just a reflection of the level of industrial strength.While it seems obvious that there is a lag as to when the effects of falling currency values filter down into the domestic prices v incomes equation.I’d guess that when you’re in the position of going from when a newspaper worth the old 6d is now valued at around an old 12 shillings and when we’ve got a pound v Euro exchange rate of almost 1 to 1 that was at worse 8 to 1 in our favour and bearing in mind just those two signs,amongst other confirmation like property values,suggest a currency value going through the floor.With incomes and therefore tax revenues falling even faster over the same period,you just know that we’re heading for the same situation as Greece sooner or later.Which isn’t surprising considering the level of de industrialisation we’ve had during the same period and the resulting trade deficit in manufactured goods.Which can only be paid for in the form of ever more borrowed or printed money that is ever more also at the same time reducing in value.In that environment it’s no wonder that wages seem to falling in real terms at an ever increasing rate.

Carryfast: THe value of a currency may well have USED to be what you describe here - but now it is NOT. What actual “industry” does Switzerland have for example that in any way justifies their exchange rate? - It’s the fact that money can be put there “No questions asked” that gives the Swiss banking system it’s strength. It’s been said that over 40% of all the crooked money in the entire world is “banked in switzerland” for instance. In a similar fashion over here - Incoming money from places like Russian Oligarchs gives Sterling a lift, when otherwise it would be very much “down down and down” for sterling with the guts-ripped-out-of-it industry that we (don’t) have these days.

A currency’s exchange rate is where the banks want it to go. When you get a difference of opionion between different banks (even of the same nation!) - there is a big move on the exchange rate.
These guys play big stakes poker with our savings as their betting chips. They have the benefit of getting paid their percentages when things go right for them, amounting to the legendary “Telephone Number Bonus Payments” they get, but when things go wrong - the shareholders, bondholders, and depositors end up carrying the can. Losses are invariably dumped into the public’s pocket somehow, whilst profits not only remain privatized, but all too often get ex-patriated as well.

I first traded currency futures in 1989 ($/DM) and most recently in 2011 (EURGPB). I made good money betting the DM against the rest of the world - but lost a fair amount predicting the drop in the Euro (from 77p) that has occured NOW - 4 years too late for me. Experience is experience. Lack of profits let alone no millionaire status or job at an investment bank for me of course takes away any bragging rights. I don’t trade currencies direct - because the proliferation of so-called “Forex Dealers” for the public out there - are as bent a business as one can think of. Even if you get the market “right” - you’ll probably still lose money with these crooks… You could buy sterling against the dollar, see the market rise by a 100 ticks (a cent) and when you try and take your profit - you get told

"Sorry bud, the market dipped a bit before it rose, and you got stopped out at the bottom and lost your wedge entirely. There is no profit and no balance left in your account either. Sorry bud. You were actually too small beer to really play this game, but we didn’t advise against you attempting to play anyway, and you’ve got no comeback from the FSA as with the futures market - since OUR market is totally unregulated!"

The “Fiddle” they run is two-fold:
(1) Insisting you have a “stop loss” order in place that’s so close to the current price that it’s highly likely to get hit (exiting you from the market with a loss equal to the balance you put in)
and
(2) The market price that needs to HIT this “compulsory stop order” is THEIR price and not the actual price on a central exchange transparant to all. WHAT an opportunity for a fiddle THAT is…
How many punters have been told “Sorry bud, you got stopped out” when all that’s happened is they moved their own price by whatever amount was needed to hit as many of their customer’s stops as possible…

On the futures market by comparison - you have a transparent price available worldwide like on the screen linked below,

the commissions are no worse than on “Private” forex markets, the exchange will insist you are far better heeled than you need to be to play the “private” forex game, and subsequently - putting stop loss orders into the market that have any real chance of getting his - are NOT compulsary. This still doesn’t protect one from “Black Swan” events like being short swiss francs when the Bank of Switzerland removed their CHFEUR peg - but Black swans aside - the rest of the time, if you lose - at least it will be slowly, rather than your entire balance in one hit.

75

Winseer:
Carryfast: THe value of a currency may well have USED to be what you describe here - but now it is NOT. What actual “industry” does Switzerland have for example that in any way justifies their exchange rate? - It’s the fact that money can be put there “No questions asked” that gives the Swiss banking system it’s strength. It’s been said that over 40% of all the crooked money in the entire world is “banked in switzerland” for instance. In a similar fashion over here - Incoming money from places like Russian Oligarchs gives Sterling a lift, when otherwise it would be very much “down down and down” for sterling with the guts-ripped-out-of-it industry that we (don’t) have these days.

A currency’s exchange rate is where the banks want it to go. When you get a difference of opionion between different banks (even of the same nation!) - there is a big move on the exchange rate.
These guys play big stakes poker with our savings as their betting chips. They have the benefit of getting paid their percentages when things go right for them, amounting to the legendary “Telephone Number Bonus Payments” they get, but when things go wrong - the shareholders, bondholders, and depositors end up carrying the can. Losses are invariably dumped into the public’s pocket somehow, whilst profits not only remain privatized, but all too often get ex-patriated as well.

I first traded currency futures in 1989 ($/DM) and most recently in 2011 (EURGPB). I made good money betting the DM against the rest of the world - but lost a fair amount predicting the drop in the Euro (from 77p) that has occured NOW - 4 years too late for me. Experience is experience. Lack of profits let alone no millionaire status or job at an investment bank for me of course takes away any bragging rights. I don’t trade currencies direct - because the proliferation of so-called “Forex Dealers” for the public out there - are as bent a business as one can think of. Even if you get the market “right” - you’ll probably still lose money with these crooks… You could buy sterling against the dollar, see the market rise by a 100 ticks (a cent) and when you try and take your profit - you get told

"Sorry bud, the market dipped a bit before it rose, and you got stopped out at the bottom and lost your wedge entirely. There is no profit and no balance left in your account either. Sorry bud. You were actually too small beer to really play this game, but we didn’t advise against you attempting to play anyway, and you’ve got no comeback from the FSA as with the futures market - since OUR market is totally unregulated!"

The “Fiddle” they run is two-fold:
(1) Insisting you have a “stop loss” order in place that’s so close to the current price that it’s highly likely to get hit (exiting you from the market with a loss equal to the balance you put in)
and
(2) The market price that needs to HIT this “compulsory stop order” is THEIR price and not the actual price on a central exchange transparant to all. WHAT an opportunity for a fiddle THAT is…
How many punters have been told “Sorry bud, you got stopped out” when all that’s happened is they moved their own price by whatever amount was needed to hit as many of their customer’s stops as possible…

On the futures market by comparison - you have a transparent price available worldwide like on the screen linked below,
Мировые рынки: Курсы валют. Фондовые индексы. Товарные рынки. Котировки акций. Криптовалюты
the commissions are no worse than on “Private” forex markets, the exchange will insist you are far better heeled than you need to be to play the “private” forex game, and subsequently - putting stop loss orders into the market that have any real chance of getting his - are NOT compulsary. This still doesn’t protect one from “Black Swan” events like being short swiss francs when the Bank of Switzerland removed their CHFEUR peg - but Black swans aside - the rest of the time, if you lose - at least it will be slowly, rather than your entire balance in one hit.

Firstly Switzerland has a massive amount of industry relative to its population size with a GDP per capita almost double that of ours as of 2013 and even Germany.

sccij.jp/news///article/2013 … n-banking/

While what you’ve described just seems to be the type of smoke and mirrors,that the banking industry is using,to show added ‘value’.Where none actually exists and making ‘money’ from nothing by robbing some to pay others which is all just yet more confirmation that we’re heading for economic meltdown sooner or later.While for the purposes of the topic it’s just the relationship between prices and incomes that matters.

On that basis we’re in the worst of all worlds situation of massive ‘inflation’,caused by a collapsed/collapsing currency,resulting from the massive de industrialisation,being dressed up by the bankers as a more or less so called ‘deflationary’ environment just for the purposes of setting income levels and savings rates.All to keep the whole sinking scam going a bit longer. :unamused:

Thereby leading to less economic growth together with the structural deliberate economic suicide of throwing away the manufacturing sector in favour of imports regards what economic activety remains.Both of which meaning yet further downward pressure on the value of the currency and as a result incomes.

Unless that is the population wakes up and realises the amount by which income levels need to rise to match that fall so far and does something about puting a government in that wants to re industrialise the economy at the expense of imports.On that note again it is only the French in the form of Le Pen and the FN and their voters that seem to be up to that job.

76

A country might have 100 units of industry - but if only 3% of the revenues from that filter through to the exchequer via taxation, then the highest revenues possible are going to be 3% of 100…

Then take another country with 90 units of industry, apparently weaker than the first country - but the taxation conduit is 50%.

The second country thus raises 15 TIMES the revenues of the first country - despite being apparently “10% weaker” by whatever measure you feel is relevent, eg $/capita.

The problem with Greece wasn’t so much about “not enough industry” therefore - it’s about “too little of the made revenues being taxed and put into the state coffers”.

Thing is, if this current government refuses to tax those that can afford to be taxed in THIS country, and continues to refuse to “chase the money when it hides abroad in offshore accounts” - then there is still a good chance that THIS country will end up like Greece - regardless of any industrial output.

The first anyone knows of it - WON’T be when the currency collapses - just as the first sign of trouble in the EU has not been the Euro collapsing.
“Trouble” is well advanced by this point - and the currency is merely at the “lower end of too high” in it’s entire trading range since the beginning. This applies to both Euro and Sterling btw. The dollar has significantly gained against both this past year in particular, despite the QE programmes which, by rights, should have significantly weakened the USD.

We have a tourist industry like Greece does. The damage to our own tourism is from the same source “anticipated political unrest” albeit in the form of more direct terrorism - and in many ways could end up being a lot worse with continued attacks from ISIS than Greece is with disgruntled members of the public taking part in tear-gassed Demonstrations…

I really hope that this government does not hand a penny over to this bailout fund for Greece. If they do then they’ve proverbially turned up with their own vaseline as per usual. :imp:

77

Winseer:

BillyHunt:
You have got to love Google, everyone’s an expert on everything.

Yeh. I wonder if it’s possible to NOT get a degree - from theory gleaned off the internet.

Google doesn’t help much with the proper, tough-to-get science and practical degrees though - because you will be breaking real stuff (engineering) blowing real stuff up (Chemistry) Failing to get real stuff to work (Physics) and killing something once alive (Biology) or even bringing something back to life that’s died… (Franken… I mean medical degree).

:unamused:

No it’s no good for the practical things, well other than showing me how to use a digital tachograph properly. The point is anyone that has the ability to get online becomes an expert in everything, even if they are some couch potato never having done anything, they can now sit at home pontificating on any subject you care to name as if they know what they are on about. Not pointing fingers just stating a fact.

78

Carryfast and Winseer and both their respective fantasy worlds in the same thread. Jesus… :open_mouth:

79

Winseer:
A country might have 100 units of industry - but if only 3% of the revenues from that filter through to the exchequer via taxation, then the highest revenues possible are going to be 3% of 100…

Then take another country with 90 units of industry, apparently weaker than the first country - but the taxation conduit is 50%.

The second country thus raises 15 TIMES the revenues of the first country - despite being apparently “10% weaker” by whatever measure you feel is relevent, eg $/capita.

The problem with Greece wasn’t so much about “not enough industry” therefore - it’s about “too little of the made revenues being taxed and put into the state coffers”.

Thing is, if this current government refuses to tax those that can afford to be taxed in THIS country, and continues to refuse to “chase the money when it hides abroad in offshore accounts” - then there is still a good chance that THIS country will end up like Greece - regardless of any industrial output.

The first anyone knows of it - WON’T be when the currency collapses - just as the first sign of trouble in the EU has not been the Euro collapsing.
“Trouble” is well advanced by this point - and the currency is merely at the “lower end of too high” in it’s entire trading range since the beginning. This applies to both Euro and Sterling btw. The dollar has significantly gained against both this past year in particular, despite the QE programmes which, by rights, should have significantly weakened the USD.

We have a tourist industry like Greece does. The damage to our own tourism is from the same source “anticipated political unrest” albeit in the form of more direct terrorism - and in many ways could end up being a lot worse with continued attacks from ISIS than Greece is with disgruntled members of the public taking part in tear-gassed Demonstrations…

I really hope that this government does not hand a penny over to this bailout fund for Greece. If they do then they’ve proverbially turned up with their own vaseline as per usual. :imp:

Firstly it doesn’t matter what the taxation regime is if that tax revenue is falling in value to the extent of the obvious historic collapse in the value of the pound.While it’s obvious that the few UK exporters are blindly just looking at an ever falling pound as a so called ‘good thing’.While stupidly forgetting that all uk workers are paid in pounds and the country’s economy is based on the value of same as opposed to the Swiss economy being based on Swiss Francs.On that note the idea that the pound is supposedly still ‘too high’,when it now won’t even buy a Sunday Newspaper and is worth around an eighth of it’s historic value against our main German rival,is just part of that economically suicidal idea. :unamused:

As for the issue with Greece that is all about the same issue as us, of a country trying to pay for German etc manufactured ( high value ) imports from low value money earn’t in the service sector.IE serving food and drink in a restaurant or storing imports in a warehouse won’t pay for a BMW etc etc because the value of the latter way exceeds the value of the former.Especially even when most of the money earn’t in that restaurant is effectively a case of one Greek service industry worker using an over valued German based currency in exchange for the services of another type of Greek service industry worker.The result being that ze Germans are zb scared that all the less industrialised economies around Europe,who are using what is effectively just a DM based currency by another name,will crash it and with it the whole German economy ( probably with good reason ).

While it seems obvious that just pushing yet more Euros into Greece will just increase the odds of that happening being that Greece was/is basically a lost cause economy that was reliant on its shipping industry to keep the Drachma afloat but of which even that has now obviously long gone.

The only good thing about all that is that it would be Karma that Germany’s obvious post war intention of ‘taking out’ it’s European industrialised competitors like us,France and to an extent at least Northern Italy,by economic means,would have backfired on it catastrophically.

As for us who needs Germany to take out the UK economy when we’ve had and got people like Heath,Callaghan,Thatcher,Blair,Brown and now Cameron to do it for them. :unamused:

80

Olog Hai:
Carryfast and Winseer and both their respective fantasy worlds in the same thread. Jesus… :open_mouth:

If you don’t think that all the signs are there that we are heading for the same type of economic meltdown as Greece it’s you who’s living in the fantasy world.