I WOULD LOVE A SCANIA:
rob k why dont you just take the plunge and do it instead of knocking all the one man bands
i dont think you have got big enough balls hense all your frustration
If you bothered to read the rest of the thread you’d know why. 
Rob K:
north surrey haulage:
What about my bet?Either accept the bet OR accept you are wrong!
I will happily admit I’m wrong, when I’m wrong.
Good so you wont accept you are wrong which means you accepting my bet.I shall enquire about making this post a “sticky” so you dont conveniently forget
Robk:
But so far I’ve been right and you haven’t been able to prove otherwise.
You said i told you I was working for “A quid” per mile even by your own post you now admit you were wrong (If only by moving the goalpost to include any figure that includes the pound sign with a 1 next to it)
SO YOU WERE WRONG!
You said fuel is a quid a litre but I have never paid a quid a litre even if that was what the “pump price” was you would still deduct the vat from that price (but being the astute businessman you are you alady knew that didn’t you)
YOU WERE WRONG
Robk:
paul b:
ROB, that sounds like a knock bet to me, your on fifteen quid an hour so a grands nothing and seans an o/d working for a mars bar a day, you can’t loose!
perhaps you need to ask wheelnut for some advice before you make a decission?Sounds like you have some issues with Malc, Paul B. Perhaps you should address them to him directly, rather than querying me about them.
Sounds like you are either trying to divert some flack or trying despartely to get sombody on your side by feigning concern about Malcs reputation
Robk:
I refer you back to this post as both of you appear to have your selective memory’s switched on again
Rob K:
north surrey haulage:
Rob K:
I shall take great pleasure in saying “told you so” when the day comes around. It’s only a matter of time. Tick tock.And I shall take great pleasure in saying “give me the grand you owe me”
If you’re man enough to put your money where your mouth is!
What’s the point? You could probably sustain running at break even point or even running at a loss for an undefined length of time, just to prove a point, then end up bankrupt.
In case your memory fails you AGAIN nobody can run at a loss for a year just to win a bet with you Rob
Robk:
Ah, and Sean’s selective eye sight too :
north surrey haulage:
Oh dear here we go again…NOBODY ON HERE IS WORKING FOR A QUID A MILE & FUEL IS NOT A QUID A LITRE
Nothing wrong with my eyesight I noticed straight away you had moved the goalposts again to include a catchall phrase but I chose to carry talking to you using your initial figures oh thank you for highghting the “new” terminoligy in the quote below but as I say there was No need
Rob K:
But that can only be a good thing because no newbie owner driver’s are going to be successful when they’re running about for circa a quid a mile when diesel’s nearing a quid a litre again
Robk:
Perhaps you should look that word up. If £1.10/£1.20 per mile is not circa a quid a mile and 95 ppl circa a quid a litre then I don’t know what is
It’s not a word it’s an abbreviation & I don’t need to look it up thanks & I dont feel the need to change my line of argument half way through a debate as you do
Running scared are we ?
Realised we were talking bovine excretia so changed all the figures around trying save face?
Come on Rob admit you are human & you makes mistakes.It’s the bigger man who admits his faults
north surrey haulage:
Running scared are we ?
Realised we were talking bovine excretia so changed all the figures around trying save face?Come on Rob admit you are human & you makes mistakes.It’s the bigger man who admits his faults
Not at all. You talk of moving the goal posts but when this thread started you were pulling boxes about (and had been doing for a good length of time) for a fraction over a quid a mile, plus fuel had reached and exceeded a quid a litre in certain parts of the country. I’ll give it 6 months before it reaches a quid a litre again as well.
Perhaps the points raised in this thread have made you see sense in that you were making absolute zero profit pulling boxes about hence the reason why you’ve got off your arse and apparently found some better paying work pulling bricks about. 
As far as your bet goes, I don’t recall ever putting a time limit on it . I said that you would eventually wind up bankrupt because with the constantly rising cost of everything (like fuel, as your biggest expense) you will be squeezed out in a survival-of-the-fittest kinda way unless you see the light now and pack up. Also, I don’t like taking money off other people 
.
At the end of the day, Carl summed up the majority of you perfectly :
the problem and I think most on here will agree is that there are too many o/d’s just playing at it, too stubborn or to much pride to call it day and pack in.
Anyway, you continue soldiering on doing your 6 days and 90hrs per week with your knackered 80 grand glory-boy Volvo and MOPACC for £400 in your pocket after you’ve factored in all the down time, breakdowns, finance repayments, diesel, yawn yawn, etc. You’re an absolute super-star and my hat goes off to you!
In fact : . This thread is brilliant. It’s amazing how some people bite so easily at a tongue in cheek comment about running for a quid a mile on page 2 of this thread.
Anyway, I eagerly await your next come back .
north surrey haulage:
Realised we were talking bovine excretia
That’s what I’ve been trying to tell you right from the start, but you wouldn’t have it. Glad to see you’ve finally admitted it .
Rob K:
Carl:
rob when i was getting things together for my bussiness plan one thing that was constant was the price of fuel its the one thing that can make or break ya and its the one thing you cant control i found a fuel card company that said they charge 93pplitre but once you claim the vat back that means id be paying 78/79 pplitre.my wife unlike me actually sits down and thinks things through unlike me and after many a heated discussion i agreed with her and decided nows not the right time to start up unless the lotto pays up this weekendYes Carl, I agree. Well summed up, especially the highlighted bit.
IF there was good money to be had, then I would definitely give it a go, but there isn’t unless you’re extremely lucky. The negatives far outweight the positives. If I’m putting everything into it and working every hour God sends to make the business a success (which is crucial in the first years of starting up a business, especially) then I want a hell of a lot more than a grand a week take home (ball park figure and I bet most owner driver’s aren’t taking anywhere near that) after all deductions like fuel, insurance, tax, more tax, tyres, breakdowns, servicing, parking, etc etc.
so basically, to start up in business you’d want everything gauranteed, including what you’d clear a week? a grand is not what you consider good money even though no company in the country would pay you anything like that for doing the same job and the same hours?
your going into reverse rob, you started off saying we’re all working for a quid a mile, making nothing and will all end up bankrupt, now your saying we’re earning a grand a week but you don’t consider that enough. seems to me, you don’t have a clue what anyones earning out of any given job so why attempt to comment in the first place?
Rob K:
Perhaps you should look that word up. If £1.10/£1.20 per mile is not circa a quid a mile and 95 ppl circa a quid a litre then I don’t know what is
I think calling 1.20 a mile “circa a quid a mile” is stretching it slightly! If you’re doing 1500 miles a week that extra 20p is 300quid a week (or over 15 grand a year) after all, hardly mars bar money…
Plus fuel is only “circa a quid a litre” including the VAT, once you’ve claimed the VAT back 95ppl turns into only a fraction over 80ppl.
Paul
Still pulling figures out his arse I see.
Rob, in numerous post on this thread you keep displaying your lack of knowledge buy getting a fundamental cost wrong. It is a good thing you aren’t giving it a go because you wouldn’t last five minutes when you constantly get the basics wrong.
Maybe I should pack it in because I’m not taking home a grand a week; mind you I’m not working every hour available either so I can live with that. I could in fact break a grand a week if I worked a day or two in the UK each week when I return from a trip, but money isn’t everything and I have other things to occupy my time when I am at home.
There is good paying work out there and for example here are two jobs I turned down in the last couple of weeks. Luton — Reading £230, couldn’t do that one because I didn’t have enough hours left that day and despite your idea that all OD’s are running bent, I don’t. Luton — Hatfield £180, couldn’t be bothered getting my arse to the truck to do it, probably stupid or lazy on my part but that is one of the beauties of working for yourself, you can say no.
paul b:
Rob K:
Carl:
rob when i was getting things together for my bussiness plan one thing that was constant was the price of fuel its the one thing that can make or break ya and its the one thing you cant control i found a fuel card company that said they charge 93pplitre but once you claim the vat back that means id be paying 78/79 pplitre.my wife unlike me actually sits down and thinks things through unlike me and after many a heated discussion i agreed with her and decided nows not the right time to start up unless the lotto pays up this weekendYes Carl, I agree. Well summed up, especially the highlighted bit.
IF there was good money to be had, then I would definitely give it a go, but there isn’t unless you’re extremely lucky. The negatives far outweight the positives. If I’m putting everything into it and working every hour God sends to make the business a success (which is crucial in the first years of starting up a business, especially) then I want a hell of a lot more than a grand a week take home (ball park figure and I bet most owner driver’s aren’t taking anywhere near that) after all deductions like fuel, insurance, tax, more tax, tyres, breakdowns, servicing, parking, etc etc.
so basically, to start up in business you’d want everything gauranteed, including what you’d clear a week? a grand is not what you consider good money even though no company in the country would pay you anything like that for doing the same job and the same hours?
No, I wouldn’t expect anything guaranteed because business doesn’t work like that. BUT, if I’m putting in all those hours - and let’s face it, it’s a 7 day a week job for many who have second hand motors because there’s usually allus something that needs fixing and you’d probably use your day off to do it - then I’d want a ■■■■ good return out of it when you have all the added stress of wondering whether the money you’ve worked for will ever materialise or whether the cheque will bounce, not to mention unexpected breakdowns etc which are allus going to result in a loss of earnings for a period of time, even if only a couple of hours.
your going into reverse rob, you started off saying we’re all working for a quid a mile, making nothing and will all end up bankrupt, now your saying we’re earning a grand a week but you don’t consider that enough. seems to me, you don’t have a clue what anyones earning out of any given job so why attempt to comment in the first place?
Ah, your selective eyesight is on again I see. Please point out to me where I’ve said any of you are earning a grand a week take home.
but isn’t that the whole point? neither you or any of the other “dooms day” knockers have a clue what any of us are earning! which of coarse is why you started this thread in the first place, you’d obviously like to have a go at the job but can’t find anything out about rates, only those that you’ve seen advertissed in the mags which are at rock bottom. so why go through all this nonsense, why didn’t you just ask for a ball park figure for a certain type of work? theres sure to have been someone on here that could’ve given you a good idea without going into the details of their own bussiness. perhaps the response has come as a bit of a suprise? now it’s become clear, that no one is working for the crap rates you’ve seen advertissed your having second thoughts, your not sure if it’s a quid a mile or a grand a week, so you keep fishing, hopeing that someone will post what they’re earning to prove a point.
to be honest, not the way i’d have gone about it
If all you want out of being an O/D is to make money, you’d better forget it. I began with the knowledge that I was never going to be a rich man out of haulage. What I do get is a reasonble wage, I could earn far more if I were to work for someone tramping UK or Continental, but then I’d have to be beholdent to them, go where they said when they said. On my own I get the satisfaction of making it work, of making my own desicions, working as and when I want to & driving what I want to.
That is of course one way of looking at it. The other side of the coin is that my work is dictated by my customers, I work when they want me to, its also dictated by the ministry, I’m underneath the trucks covered in grease when they want Inspecting/servicing, its also dictated by my employees, I work when they won’t/ can’t, its also dictated by the VAT man and the Inland revenue, who want it all when they want it, but I love it. It’s what I do. If its what you love too, do it, make it work. If not fine, but DON’T KNOCK THE GUYS GIVING IT A GO!
Ah, so that’s what it’s all about then!!! It’s all become clear now! None of you are in it to make any money, you’re just in it to work when you want and not be told what to do by a boss .
But hang on a minute , you say in the next sentence that you have to work when your customer tells you to :
The other side of the coin is that my work is dictated by my customers, I work when they want me to
so therefore you’re actually working the same as you would do in an employed role but you’re making far less money (by your own admission Tramper) by doing so and also have the added hassles of everything else that comes with running your own wagon.
Well, if you’re happy then good on you, but it seems like extremely poor business sense to me.
If you can earn more driving someone elses wagon - let’s say on agency work for argument sake, as you have the freedom to work when you want there too - then what’s the point in burdening yourself with all the hassle of running your own wagon and everything that comes with it when you could earn the same money elsewhere?
Rob K:
Well, if you’re happy then good on you
At last! You’ve got it! well done!
Hi all, have i missed much 
Well blimey, what a great thread, some really good comments and replies (slagging off)
Just to add my tuppence worth, i’ve been offered work by TNT running a trailer to Atherstone and back (from Enfield) and it works out at £1.66 per mile not bad eh!
Oh and who in thier right mind would pay £1 per litre for derv 
I hope this thread never ends it’s fantastic
got to say i look at it completely different to that, yes i enjoy the work but i run a wagon purely because it pays more money than driving for a firm, in fact i could go with the company i sub off, driving one of their wagons tomorrow on trip money, still start and finnish when i want and earn what to most, would be a very good wage but it dosn’t compare to what i can make subbin, thats of coarse given that i don’t get any bad luck along the way. thats not to say i hav’nt had days when i’ve thought “why the ■■■■ am i doing this?” i suppose at the end of the day theres those that want to take a chance and those that like everything set out so they know whats coming in.i wouldn’t knock anyone for having a go at being self employed nor would i knock those that don’t think it’s for them.
as for agencies? thats got to be the worst type of work anyone can take on, sat in the house waiting for the phone to ring to see if your gona earn any money that week or not, to me, thats just like being on the end of a peace of string!
I agree with Paul, I’m in it for the money.
I don’t enjoy working on the truck at weekends, that’s why I pay a fitter.My weekends are for me to enjoy the fruits of my labour.
One other thing-I don’t even enjoy the job anymore I think after 40 odd years on the road the novelty has gone, but I do enjoy the money.
Hypothetical Costings
Average Distance Work-type mileage - 80,000 per annum.
80,000miles@100ppm = £80,000
80,000miles@101ppm = £80,800
80,000miles@105ppm = £84,000
80,000miles@110ppm = £88,000
80,000miles@120ppm = £96,000
So that’s the 5-20ppm rate difference illustrated to be significant then.
Same truck, assuming 8mpg.
80,000miles will use 10,000 gallons of fuel.
Assume 4.54 litres to a gallon for ease of calculation, gives 45400litres per annum.
45400l@70ppl = £31,780
45400l@80ppl = £36,320
45400l@90ppl = £40,860
45400l@100ppl = £45,400
45400l@1ppl = £454
45400l@5ppl = £2270
So over a year, 1-5ppl difference in fuel price is obviously significant too.
Just food for thought…
Lucy:
Hypothetical Costings
Average Distance Work-type mileage - 80,000 per annum.
80,000miles@100ppm = £80,000
80,000miles@101ppm = £80,800
80,000miles@105ppm = £84,000
80,000miles@110ppm = £88,000
80,000miles@120ppm = £96,000So that’s the 5-20ppm rate difference illustrated to be significant then.
Same truck, assuming 8mpg.
80,000miles will use 10,000 gallons of fuel.
Assume 4.54 litres to a gallon for ease of calculation, gives 45400litres per annum.45400l@70ppl = £31,780
45400l@80ppl = £36,320
45400l@90ppl = £40,860
45400l@100ppl = £45,40045400l@1ppl = £454
45400l@5ppl = £2270So over a year, 1-5ppl difference in fuel price is obviously significant too.
Just food for thought…
As is an extra 0.5 mpg
Rob K:
Not at all. You talk of moving the goal posts but when this thread started you were pulling boxes about
That just shows your lack of knowledge about what I do
Robk:
(and had been doing for a good length of time) for a fraction over a quid a mile,
Again showing your lack of knowledge
Robk:
Perhaps the points raised in this thread have made you see sense in that you were making absolute zero profit pulling boxes about hence the reason why you’ve got off your arse and apparently found some better paying work pulling bricks about.
Again showing your lack of knowledge apparently you think you know what I’m doing now. So what rate am I working for now Rob?
Robk:
As far as your bet goes, I don’t recall ever putting a time limit on it
Well as you know so much about how I run my business why dont you let me know how long I’ve got 'til I’m bankrupt and we’ll set that as our time limit.
I dont like taking money off other people but I’ll make an exception for you Rob
Robk:
Anyway, you continue soldiering on doing your 6 days and 90hrs per week with your knackered 80 grand glory-boy Volvo and MOPACC for £400 in your pocket after you’ve factored in all the down time, breakdowns, finance repayments, diesel, yawn yawn, etc. You’re an absolute super-star and my hat goes off to you!
That comment just saddens me
Robk:
In fact :
Sounds to me like you are trying to backtrack infering that you were joking but I dont believe that, as it’s not the first time you’ve mentioned O/D’s working for £1 p/m
Robk:
]
Anyway, I eagerly await your next come back
I eagerly await your next intelligent comment
north surrey haulage:
I eagerly await your next intelligent comment
Bet your bankrupt well before that happens
But an absolutly superb set of replies NSH, All credit to you…
Rob K:
IF there was good money to be had, then I would definitely give it a go, but there isn’t unless you’re extremely lucky. The negatives far outweight the positives. If I’m putting everything into it and working every hour God sends to make the business a success (which is crucial in the first years of starting up a business, especially) then I want a hell of a lot more than a grand a week take home (ball park figure and I bet most owner driver’s aren’t taking anywhere near that) after all deductions like fuel, insurance, tax, more tax, tyres, breakdowns, servicing, parking, etc etc.
Sometimes Rob you live on a different planet, you want to bank a grand a week, thats top line around £1300 a week, or £67600 per anum, most MD’s off companies turning over several million £’s a year dont earn that. let alone small business men turning over a£100000 a year. Name the qualities that make your time so much more valuable to your prospective customers, If the O/D’s that your so keen to see the demise off are quite happy to bank £400 a week then thats upto them, if they choose to change customers because they can earn more where’s the difference in you or i changing jobs, as we have both done recently for the very same reasons or in your case cos’ you had a disagreement with the TM.
You have to work hard for small reward in the early years of any business, if ti was easy for big money we’d all be on it, O/D’s might consider the likes of you and i as PAYE free loaders, just turn up monday to friday not caring wether the motor is working or the work paying, but demanding our pay at the end of the week regardless, although most drivers i’ve met do care as to wether the job pays or not cos we all know that no one Haulier or O/D can sustain losses, at the end off the day we can be out of work