think this one’s obvious but I can’t think what the answer is;
I drive for 3 hours, take a 15minit break, drive for an hour and a bit and take a 30 minit break. I think of that as 4.5 hours driving to keep things simple.
I then drive erm, the same again for arguments sake 3hours then a 15 break, an hour then a 30 break and think of that as another 4.5hours.
here’s the question - although that’s 9hours, an hour and a half of it is breaks, does that mean you’ve done 7.5 hours and you’ve still got an hour and a half or two and a half hours (9 hour or 10 hour) left that you can drive in? And does the same apply to driver doing other work and p.o.a.?
From what you have said and the way I understand it .You have done 3+1 and then another 3+1 total driving time excluding breaks therefore done 8 hrs in total you have also had 2x 15 and 2 x 30 breaks which leaves you on a 10 hr day 2 hrs left to drive no breaks or 1 if its a 9 hr day …
POA is seperate in that for example if you where to breakdown you would put it as POA as you couldnt have forseen it but you are available to drive. so if you where held up for 2 hrs waiting to get back on the road it doesnt affect your driving hours you carry on from where you left off. (bit like off the clock)
Other work is if you are say handballing or unloading the vehicle again it doesnt count to your driving hours… prob get shot to pieces but thats my understanding of it.
yeah, that’s about what I thought, but not sure if I’m right or not
darkseeker:
:.
here’s the question - although that’s 9hours, an hour and a half of it is breaks
The way you’ve written it says you’ve done 9hrs driving excluding not including the breaks. Or have I mis-read it 
If you had only done 7.5 hrs driving then you would have the extra 1.5 or 2.5hrs driving left.
looking at the way you have writen it you have done a total of 10.5 hrs of duty time if you where doing continuous driving,this will be different if you have done other work or poa’s during you drive times, so you have 2.5 hrs left on a 13 hour duty day so you could drive on for the next hour to give you a 10 hr driving day you appear to comply with the wtd with your breaks as well as after 6 hrs of duty you have to take 30 mins break even if you haven’t driven for your 4.5 hrs i hope this helps but then again someone is bound to say i am wrong!
mrpj:
darkseeker:
:.
here’s the question - although that’s 9hours, an hour and a half of it is breaks
The way you’ve written it says you’ve done 9hrs driving excluding not including the breaks. Or have I mis-read it If you had only done 7.5 hrs driving then you would have the extra 1.5 or 2.5hrs driving left.
erm, I can see what you mean mate - I meant both as typical 4.5h stretches i.e WITHIN each 4.5 hours there’s a 15minit break and a 30:
I drive down to london mostly, takes about 3.5 hours so I stop for a 45 before going into london. I then do the drop and carry on for about 4hours and take another 45 as it’s about dinner time. so that’s 7.5hours driving and 1.5 hours breaks. From there I’ve got a clean run the rest of the way home BUT I’ve done 9 hours in total, does that mean I’ve only got an hour left maximum or is it that an hour PLUS the time for breaks and any other time i.e. unloading etc?
darkseeker:
so that’s 7.5hours driving and 1.5 hours breaks.
Then you have either 1.5 or 2.5hrs driving left. Time spent on break/ unloading etc does not count towards your driving limits.
you dont say how long you where unloading its your duty time you need to know to determine if you are going for a 13 hr or a 15hr duty day which the latter you can only do 3 times a week your drive time is only 7.5 hrs so you still have 1.5 hours on a 9 hr drive or 2.5 hrs on a 10hrs drive
darkseeker:
mrpj:
darkseeker:
:.
here’s the question - although that’s 9hours, an hour and a half of it is breaks
The way you’ve written it says you’ve done 9hrs driving excluding not including the breaks. Or have I mis-read it If you had only done 7.5 hrs driving then you would have the extra 1.5 or 2.5hrs driving left.
erm, I can see what you mean mate - I meant both as typical 4.5h stretches i.e WITHIN each 4.5 hours there’s a 15minit break and a 30:
I drive down to london mostly, takes about 3.5 hours so I stop for a 45 before going into london. I then do the drop and carry on for about 4hours and take another 45 as it’s about dinner time. so that’s 7.5hours driving and 1.5 hours breaks. From there I’ve got a clean run the rest of the way home BUT I’ve done 9 hours in total, does that mean I’ve only got an hour left maximum or is it that an hour PLUS the time for breaks and any other time i.e. unloading etc?
good, problem solved 
what’s this about 13hours on the wtd though?? As I often end up going over 13 hours (start at 0400, back at work about 1500 and expected to work to the end of the day!!) - does that include breaks?
darkseeker:
good, problem solved
what’s this about 13hours on the wtd though?? As I often end up going over 13 hours (start at 0400, back at work about 1500 and expected to work to the end of the day!!) - does that include breaks?
NO - nor POA - only driving and other work 
have a look at the posts in HERE
you can only go over 13 hrs duty time 3 times a week as you can only reduce your daily rest of 11 hrs to 9 hrs 3 times in any working week
your duty time is the time you start work,to the time you clock off, which if you are not driving must be made as a manual entry on your tacho i.e yard work either before you leave the yard or after you return from your run
so if you start at 04.00 and back at 15.00 you have a total of 11hrs duty so you can work for another 2 hrs until ie till 17.00 which would give you your 11hrs break if you where going to start at 04.00 the next morning.
one thing i will say is and i am not 100 % sure if your start time is 04.00 you might be under the rules for night time workers.
i think if you start or finish work between 00.00 and 04.00 you come under thous rules but you would need to check that out.
yes sorry i call spread over duty time sorry for any confusion 
ROG:
darkseeker:
good, problem solved
what’s this about 13hours on the wtd though?? As I often end up going over 13 hours (start at 0400, back at work about 1500 and expected to work to the end of the day!!) - does that include breaks?
NO - nor POA - only driving and other work
have a look at the posts in HERE
When you mention 13 hours I assume that you’re referring to a 13 hour spread-over, this includes breaks.
Within 24 hours from the start of the shift you should take a daily rest (minimum 11 hours) or a reduced daily rest (minimum 9 hours).
Lets assume that you start work at 04:00, in order to take an 11 hour daily rest period within the 24 hour period, you would have to be finished by 17:00 (17:00 to 04:00 = 11 hours), from the start of the shift at 04:00 to the latest permissible end of the shift at 17:00 is 13 hours, this is generally referred to as the daily spread-over, you can see that this must include breaks.
The daily rest can be reduced to no less than 9 hours three times between two weekly rest periods, this would allow you a 15 hour spread-over, again this would have to include breaks ec’t.
It seems to me that many are thinking of the time worked from start to finish rather than the time rested in a 24 hour period and it is that aspect which is causing confusion for many - am I right 
ROG:
It seems to me that many are thinking of the time worked from start to finish rather than the time rested in a 24 hour period and it is that aspect which is causing confusion for many - am I right
I think your right there ROG.
if we really want to get confused we could throw in split daily rests
8 hours 3 hours 4hours 9 hours
{driving+otherwork+breaks) {rest) (driving+otherwork+breaks) (rest)
the first rest must be at least 3 hrs of uninterrupted rest and can be taken at anytime of the day .the second must be at least 9hrs rest giving a total minimin rest of 12 hours as shown above.
and thats sraight out of vosa’s drivers hour book revised 2007
peteandbrenda:
you can only go over 13 hrs duty time 3 times a week as you can only reduce your daily rest of 11 hrs to 9 hrs 3 times in any working week
At the risk of seeming pedantic, it is “3 times between periods of Weekly Rest.”
Or, in other words, taking a Weekly Rest re-sets the counter.
Therefore, it is possible (although I wouldn’t fancy doing it) to do a 15 Mon, Tues, Wed. Thursday 24 hour WR, then 15’s on Friday, Sat, Sun.
At which point, I’d be needing a holiday. 
and a long lie down.
lol, thanks for trying guys - why on earth they make it so complicated I’ll never know.
Right, to help a little I’ll tell you a bit about my job;
I work for an engineering company, most of whom’s work is in london, with odd jobs anywhere south of the humber (roughly). Mostly steel staircases, I help to make them for about half of my time and it’s my job to deliver it to the guys fitting it on site.
Which means I only do about three or four day’s driving a week and I don’t work weekends. When I go to london however, it’s always a 0400 start so I get to the site about the same time as the fitters.
ok, I’ve got the bit about the tacho. What am I allowed to do a day then? probably better to stick to 13 hours a day to keep things simple for now, which means if I clocked in at 0400 I need to be gone by 1700, or is that different because of the night workers thing?
which means if I clocked in at 0400 I need to be gone by 1700, or is that different because of the night workers thing?
LGV nights are deemed midnight to 4AM
darkseeker:
lol, thanks for trying guys - why on earth they make it so complicated I’ll never know.
Right, to help a little I’ll tell you a bit about my job;
I work for an engineering company, most of whom’s work is in london, with odd jobs anywhere south of the humber (roughly). Mostly steel staircases, I help to make them for about half of my time and it’s my job to deliver it to the guys fitting it on site.
Which means I only do about three or four day’s driving a week and I don’t work weekends. When I go to london however, it’s always a 0400 start so I get to the site about the same time as the fitters.
ok, I’ve got the bit about the tacho. What am I allowed to do a day then? probably better to stick to 13 hours a day to keep things simple for now, which means if I clocked in at 0400 I need to be gone by 1700, or is that different because of the night workers thing?
If you do any work between 00:00 and 04:00 (goods vehicles) you’re classed as a night worker and restricted to 10 hours work in the 24 hour period from the beginning of the shift.
As you don’t start until 04:00 you don’t do any work between 00:00 and 04:00 so that won’t be a problem for you.
If you start work at 04:00 and you’re having a full 11 hour daily rest period, then you should be finished by 17:00 (17:00 to 04:00 = 11 hours within 24 hours from the start of the shift).
Three times between weekly rest periods you can reduce your daily rest to no less than 9 hours, so if you start at 04:00 you must have completed a 9 hour rest by 04:00 the following day (9 hours rest within 24 hours of the start of work).
In this case if you start work at 04:00 and have a reduced daily rest, you should be finished work no later than 19:00, (19:00 to 04:00 = 9 hours).