So a week ago I started a shift at 1630 Sunday finished 0715 on the Monday when I ejected my tacho card it came up with error 43 Security Breach . I downloaded card and it was blank . Out of hours so when I returned to work after my daily Rest and inserted card in a different truck it didn’t ask me to make manual update and told me I required a driving break , it was telling me I was on 16 hrs driving , so on printout all activity had stopped recording at midnight . I made all the required printouts and explined what happened on back and handed to driver trainer , a week later he is insisting I sign an infringement and I’m refusing to sign as I wasn’t to blame but there equipment was . Am I right to take this stance ?
Yes I wouldn’t sign in also if it’s a WTD infringement you have to be told within 24 hours of it taking place to be an infringement.
Work tried it with me for something that was 4 weeks before,the union rep was standing next to me when they tried to give me a point for it he said not allowed as it’s over 24 hours since it happened,as it worked out wasn’t 1 anyway the office knob can’t add up lol.
If manual entry etc shows no infringement then you have not done owt wrong so why are they saying it is ?
just sign it it will be forgotten about in no time as long as you are usually on the ball
Choose your battles. Refusing a triviality like this will make you look like a barrack room lawyer. Over the years, I had a few of those and they didn’t last too long.
All you are signing is to say that those things did happen. You have supplied full manual records (haven’t you?) and written reasons etc so there’s no problem.
The company are simply doing what they have to do to keep the TCs happy. Bring problems to your attention and ask what happened etc, then record it in case DVSA do a record check. It all helps cover your back.
You are not signing to say it was your fault or anyone else’s - just that it happened. It isn’t an issue in my opinion.
Yes, as Shep532 has stated above, the thing with the signature is that it’s just an internal administrative tick-box exercise.
In my own experience, the signature is simply to say the TM spoke to you, explained the infringement, and you understand “what went wrong” but none of this carriers any legal implications whatsoever. I know it feels like an admission of guilt, but as a driver sometimes you just have to play along with the game, give the office people the little things that make them happy, and move on with your life!
You are being ask to sign to say the company have brought this to your attention…they have,you sign?
some people sign these without even looking at them.i was asked to sign one once for an infringement while i was on holiday???that one i refused to sign!
If the problem has been traced and documented then keep a record of it along with a copy of the signed infringement notice.
Job done everyone’s happy.
- Sign the blooming thing and just press on (not recommended)
- Refuse to sign and tell management to sort themselves out (confrontational)
- Write out an explanation finishing with the statement that you are signing the infringement under duress and get the clerk to sign it before you sign the infringement. (friendly and tell the clerk its just a formality and doesn’t mean anything)
Daytrunker:
Yes I wouldn’t sign in also if it’s a WTD infringement you have to be told within 24 hours of it taking place to be an infringement.Work tried it with me for something that was 4 weeks before,the union rep was standing next to me when they tried to give me a point for it he said not allowed as it’s over 24 hours since it happened,as it worked out wasn’t 1 anyway the office knob can’t add up lol.
Can you give more details on the 24 thing… A mate just got a final warning for Wtd, he got 5 over a 6 month period 
Signing this infringement isn’t your way of accepting blame, it’s only the company being able to show the traffic commissioner that they’re dealing with any transgressions.
Just sign it and move on.
G6Bob:
Daytrunker:
Yes I wouldn’t sign in also if it’s a WTD infringement you have to be told within 24 hours of it taking place to be an infringement.Work tried it with me for something that was 4 weeks before,the union rep was standing next to me when they tried to give me a point for it he said not allowed as it’s over 24 hours since it happened,as it worked out wasn’t 1 anyway the office knob can’t add up lol.
Can you give more details on the 24 thing… A mate just got a final warning for Wtd, he got 5 over a 6 month period
This will be COMPANY policy if anything as it certainly isn’t anything in legislation. Sounds like the operate a points system for infringements which could then result in a disciplinary issue.
Don’t forget - some companies use the analogue tacho as their working time record. An analogue tacho can’t be handed in until after 28 days from use, meaning the company won’t know what you have done wrong until they see it. That in itself pretty much makes this ‘24 hour rule’ impossible to comply with.
Daytrunker:
Yes I wouldn’t sign in also if it’s a WTD infringement you have to be told within 24 hours of it taking place to be an infringement.Work tried it with me for something that was 4 weeks before,the union rep was standing next to me when they tried to give me a point for it he said not allowed as it’s over 24 hours since it happened,as it worked out wasn’t 1 anyway the office knob can’t add up lol.
That’s one union man I wouldn’t want sitting next to me in a disciplinary as he clearly has little understanding of how things actually work. What happens if a tramper commits a WTD infringement on Monday and it’s not ‘discovered’ until Friday… is it no longer an infringement?
Whirlwind:
So a week ago I started a shift at 1630 Sunday finished 0715 on the Monday when I ejected my tacho card it came up with error 43 Security Breach . I downloaded card and it was blank . Out of hours so when I returned to work after my daily Rest and inserted card in a different truck it didn’t ask me to make manual update and told me I required a driving break , it was telling me I was on 16 hrs driving , so on printout all activity had stopped recording at midnight . I made all the required printouts and explined what happened on back and handed to driver trainer , a week later he is insisting I sign an infringement and I’m refusing to sign as I wasn’t to blame but there equipment was . Am I right to take this stance ?
Sign it,then make a defect for the tacho,if that has no fault then its your card.
From what you say about the recordings there`s something amiss with one or both
Thanks for replies , company has league tables for everything and my 100% for no infringements will be gone but will take your advice sign it and move on .
Whirlwind:
Thanks for replies , company has league tables for everything and my 100% for no infringements will be gone but will take your advice sign it and move on .
What exactly are they saying you did wrong that has not been corrected by a manual entry/printout ?
I spent a day driving using a digi tacho, I then went as passenger, with card in tacho to collect the
firms van from a repairer. On arrival I did a printout and on my return journey I stopped for my break and did a manual entry on the printout. A couple of weeks later I received an infringement because they didn’t bother to read the entries on the printout.
shep532:
G6Bob:
Daytrunker:
Yes I wouldn’t sign in also if it’s a WTD infringement you have to be told within 24 hours of it taking place to be an infringement.Work tried it with me for something that was 4 weeks before,the union rep was standing next to me when they tried to give me a point for it he said not allowed as it’s over 24 hours since it happened,as it worked out wasn’t 1 anyway the office knob can’t add up lol.
Can you give more details on the 24 thing… A mate just got a final warning for Wtd, he got 5 over a 6 month period
This will be COMPANY policy if anything as it certainly isn’t anything in legislation. Sounds like the operate a points system for infringements which could then result in a disciplinary issue.
Don’t forget - some companies use the analogue tacho as their working time record. An analogue tacho can’t be handed in until after 28 days from use, meaning the company won’t know what you have done wrong until they see it. That in itself pretty much makes this ‘24 hour rule’ impossible to comply with.
Yeah was thinking so, 5 infringements at 3 points a piece over a 6 month period and my mate got a written warning. Thing is he hadn’t been asked to sign for the first 4 of them, still awaiting proof that he went over his 6 hours each of these times
I presume that there is nothing to physically stop you signing the book and then writing, (if necessary over the top of any printed mumbo jumbo), words to the effect that you have made and supplied a print out detailing the occurrence which does not show an infringement of regulations so there was either a fault with the tachograph or your card.