Is it legal to share drivers between vehicles so that you can run for more than 10 hours (but still stay within single-manned rules)?
For example - three drivers between two trucks:
Driver 1 drives for 2:15
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 1 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 drives for 2:15
Driver 1 drives for 2:15
Driver 2 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 3 drives for 2:15
Driver 1 drives for 2:15
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 1 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 drives for 2:15
Driver 1 drives for 1:45
Driver 2 takes a 1:45 break
Driver 3 drives for 1:45
All drivers take 11 hours rest
Total shift length = 13 hours. Total vehicle movement = 13 hours. No driver drives for more than 4 1/2 hours continuously. Breaks from driving can be taken in a moving vehicle.
This example doesn’t even use up a 10-hour driving period or a 9-hour rest period; obviously it can be extended to 15 hours of movement if you’re willing to use them up.
So, is it legal? If you think it isn’t, can you please tell me why?
The reason is that whilst on convoy, I had a long argument with a very experienced operator who kept on telling me that it is illegal, yet agreed with everything I said above, and could not give me any evidence to say why it was illegal, nor quote any part of the regulations to back up his claim, just that I was “wrong”.
Is it legal to share drivers between vehicles so that you can run for more than 10 hours (but still stay within single-manned rules)?
For example - three drivers between two trucks:
Driver 1 drives for 2:15
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 1 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 drives for 2:15
Driver 1 drives for 2:15
Driver 2 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 3 drives for 2:15
Driver 1 drives for 2:15
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 1 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 drives for 2:15
Driver 1 drives for 1:45
Driver 2 takes a 1:45 break
Driver 3 drives for 1:45
All drivers take 11 hours rest
Total shift length = 13 hours. Total vehicle movement = 13 hours. No driver drives for more than 4 1/2 hours continuously. Breaks from driving can be taken in a moving vehicle.
This example doesn’t even use up a 10-hour driving period or a 9-hour rest period; obviously it can be extended to 15 hours of movement if you’re willing to use them up.
So, is it legal? If you think it isn’t, can you please tell me why?
The reason is that whilst on convoy, I had a long argument with a very experienced operator who kept on telling me that it is illegal, yet agreed with everything I said above, and could not give me any evidence to say why it was illegal, nor quote any part of the regulations to back up his claim, just that I was “wrong”.
Not sure if your maths is wrong or mine but;
Driver 1 drives for 2:15
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 1 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 drives for 2:15
This bit alone is 9 hours driving■■? Your whole list comes to a 26hour drive doesn’t it?
I cannot see any reason why it would be illegal and there seems to be nothing in the regulations to say it is. You obviously have to stick to single manning hours rules as the vehicles are not double manned, the same two drivers do not stick with the same vehicle for the duration. The only slight problem I see is the operating of the tacho charts for driver 3, assuming driver 1 and 2 stay with the same vehicle and driver 3 switches between the two trucks. part of the time his chart will be in the second driver position in one or other of the vehicles and part of the time in driver one position in one or the other.
As far as I can tell Driver 3 would have his chart as follows for each period.
Position 2 in vehicle 1
Position 1 in vehicle 1
Position 1 in vehicle 2
Position 2 in vehicle 2
Position 1 in vehicle 1
Position 1 in vehicle 2
That way he would only have to mark four vehicle changes on the chart (truck 1 - truck 2- truck 1 - truck 2) which makes life easier as that tends to be the number of changes available on one chart, and makes it clearer for enforcement officials to see what he has done. All breaks have been taken as required and all driving limits have been adhered to and the regulations clearly allow for the driving of more than one vehicle during a single shift, the charts even have spaces for recording this. I did a night shift for a week for DHL where I drove one vehicle, a rigid, for the first couple of hours of the shift, an artic for the next part of the shift and switched back to the rigid for the final part of the shift. The rigid was driven by another driver while I drove the artic.That is very similar to the above apart from the fact I didn’t take my breaks in a moving vehicle, which is allowed anyway. Those charts were analysed and did not come back with infringements.
I had a long argument with a very experienced operator who kept on telling me that it is illegal, yet agreed with everything I said above, and could not give me any evidence to say why it was illegal, nor quote any part of the regulations to back up his claim, just that I was “wrong”
Well if he cannot back up his argument by pointing out to you the part of the regulations that would not allow this then it shows he is on thin ice. He is just one short step away from claiming MMTM rules here.
Mike-C:
Not sure if your maths is wrong or mine but;
Yours.
Mike-C:
Driver 1 drives for 2:15
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 1 takes a 2:15 break
Driver 2 drives for 2:15
Driver 3 drives for 2:15
At the end of period 1 only 2 hours 15 minutes have elapsed since the start of the shift and at the end of period 2, 4.5 hours. The driving times in each section for two of the three drivers are happening at the same time, while the 3rd has a kip.
[/quote]
Coffeeholic:
This one was almost as straightforward as the “Tractor Unit On A Class 2” question.
Except that
a) personal experience of this situation for me and i should imagine 99% of the other drivers out there is zero
b) its not something i have ever seen documented in hgv handbooks, vosa site, theory test handbook, trucknetuk forums or even coffee to go
So yes as you say in theory it adds up and is all sounding ok …but i wouldnt know that it DEFINATLY is legit and wouldnt want to just accept that it is for fear of the dreaded MMTM* syndrome
Coffeeholic:
This one was almost as straightforward as the “Tractor Unit On A Class 2” question.
Except that
a) personal experience of this situation for me and i should imagine 99% of the other drivers out there is zero
The question is only about two basic points - driving different vehicles during a shift , which is allowed, and taking a break in a moving vehicle, which is also allowed. I’m sure there are far more than 1% of drivers who have done both of those things at sometime or another.
Reef:
b) its not something i have ever seen documented in hgv handbooks, vosa site, theory test handbook, trucknetuk forums
Driving more than one vehicle during a shift and taking a break in a moving vehicle are both clearly mentioned in the regulations and documented in publications and on websites that deal with the subject. Both topics have also been covered on the TruckNet Forums before.
Reef:
or even coffee to go
Well I did a week of shifts doing something similar so it may be covered in Coffee to Go 2
stop trying to worm away from the original meaning of the thread which is can 3 drivers split between 2 vehicles end of…
The number of drivers and trucks, or the fact there are more drivers than trucks, is irrelevant and when you focus on that you’re over complicating it, and that is what leads to confusion, a classic case of you can’t see the wood for the trees. I stand by what I said, it is a very simple question and one that is easily answered and deals with something that far more than 1% of drivers have experienced - driving more than one vehicle during a shift. What makes you think it is any more complicated than that?
Just break it down and it all becomes very simple. In the scenario given driver 1 is sticking with truck 1 for an entire shift and at no point exceeds 4.5 hours driving without a break, no question that is legal. Driver 2 is sticking with truck 2 for an entire shift and at no point exceeds 4.5 hours driving without a break, again no question that is legal. Driver 3 drives 2 different vehicles, truck 1 and truck 2, during the shift and at no point exceeds 4.5 hours driving without a break, once again no question that is legal. All drivers took their breaks in moving vehicles but that is also legal.
So there you are, 3 drivers shared 2 trucks and it is all legal and all the points are well documented in various publications. Even if the 3 drivers had all taken a turn at driving each vehicle it would still be legal as the regulations clearly allow a driver to use more than one vehicle during a shift. There is also nothing in the regulations that limits the number of times a driver can use the same vehicle during a shift, and if it isn’t specified, or stated to be not allowed, in the regulations it means there is no limit and it is allowed.
Did you ever read those long distance truck tests in Truck magazine where they took 5 or 6 trucks and a group of journalists from various publications or countries and during the course of the day they each take a turn behind the wheel of all the trucks? Those tests are carried out on the roads so tachos would have to be used and they would often drive each vehicle more than once, same scenario and legal.
Coffeeholic:
]
The number of drivers and trucks, or the fact there are more drivers than trucks, is irrelevant and when you focus on that you’re over complicating it, and that is what leads to confusion, a classic case of you can’t see the wood for the trees. I stand by what I said, it is a very simple question and one that is easily answered and deals with something that far more than 1% of drivers have experienced - driving more than one vehicle during a shift. What makes you think it is any more complicated than that?
Just break it down and it all becomes very simple. In the scenario given driver 1 is sticking with truck 1 for an entire shift and at no point exceeds 4.5 hours driving without a break, no question that is legal. Driver 2 is sticking with truck 2 for an entire shift and at no point exceeds 4.5 hours driving without a break, again no question that is legal. Driver 3 drives 2 different vehicles, truck 1 and truck 2, during the shift and at no point exceeds 4.5 hours driving without a break, once again no question that is legal. All drivers took their breaks in moving vehicles but that is also legal.
So there you are, 3 drivers shared 2 trucks and it is all legal and all the points are well documented in various publications. Even if the 3 drivers had all taken a turn at driving each vehicle it would still be legal as the regulations clearly allow a driver to use more than one vehicle during a shift. There is also nothing in the regulations that limits the number of times a driver can use the same vehicle during a shift, and if it isn’t specified, or stated to be not allowed, in the regulations it means there is no limit and it is allowed.
Did you ever read those long distance truck tests in Truck magazine where they took 5 or 6 trucks and a group of journalists from various publications or countries and during the course of the day they each take a turn behind the wheel of all the trucks? Those tests are carried out on the roads so tachos would have to be used and they would often drive each vehicle more than once, same scenario and legal.
Insert sense of humour here…
I was only mucking about neil…but your point is taken…it did seem far more complicated at 1st look and once you broke it down it like you said becomes simple
