This is the ad I saw… The £38k was an attention grabber to be sure - but I was OK with the £28k being touted for “nights”…
There’s no way you’re gonna get £28k out of £8.10 an hour though, so the whole thing was ■■■■■■■■ and made up as far as I’m concerned.
Really, Stobarts want to watch themselves from the legal perspective - getting BS like this printed in the national press and all!
If you attempt to turn £28k into salaried hours from £8.10ph - you get over a 66 hour week, which is bent - as you all know I’ve been banging on about these past months… I’d obviously assumed that any “salaried position” offered by some yard of repute (which I thought Stobarts were) would be a MAXIMUM salaried 48 hour week… How wrong I was eh?
Does anyone think I may have been bluffed off the job application on the grounds of “We don’t actually want anyone who’s put off by the money being lower than the advert stated…”?
Perhaps they should re-word their ads with something like:
"Come and work for Stobarts. The money is crap - but the uniforms are green, and you might be the next ‘Dixon in Uniform Green’ or “Dixon on Dock Seen" on the telly!”
LIBERTY_GUY:
There have been many instances of UK based lorries being pulled in recent times, where the driver hasn’t even got a valid driving license
Did a DCPC module today and it turns out when checking the attendee licenses that one of the people on the course hadn’t either. Their license had expired on their 45th birthday and they’d not taken the medical for whatever reason. Been driving the last 4 years without a license and their employer hadn’t picked it up either.
If you are “at work” over 60 hours a week - every week, week in, week out - then it’s BENT.
As agency, you can do 60 hours one week, and 36 hours the next - all nice and legal. If you are contracted for anything over 48 hours though - how the devil do you get the average back down to 48 over ANY reference period whatsoever?
POA is NOT “time off work”. You can’t guarantee to be able to “sleep” during it either. Perhaps if every driving job included a written-in element of “being alsleep in cab whilst on the dock @ some RDC” - but as we all know - most RDCs kick you out of your cab, so your 3-4 hour wait to be turned around involves you being bored out of your skull and wide awake in some “cooler” waiting room listening to the bully bull of other drivers.
What do you think happens when you fall asleep at the wheel for being on duty so many hours every week - and crash into a bus queue?
The only one going to jail is the driver. The yard might get fined or lose their O licence - but it’s very rare for gaffers of large yards to be chucked into jail for “tacho offences” let’s say…
Even “a salaried 50 hour week” makes the assumption (and gamble as far as the yard is concerned!) that there will be at LEAST 2 hours of POA booked each and every week… You might be required to drive a route that’s buggered every day for that particular month - and where would you be then?
In attempting to run routes too tight on time already - the yard risks the driver’s licence for their own gain. This shouldn’t be tolerated by any staff just because of the old “Times are 'ard” argument - that ‘there’s no job but this bent job’ - and other such daft arguments…
trubster:
I am led to believe that Stobrats are offering £11.05 for Night Drivers, I am awaiting a picture to prove it, otherwise it is BS
The picture don’t prove nowt. I applied for the £38k job - and got told (when being given my averly assessment date) it’s “£8.10ph for midweek nights”…
And this… In the southeast FFS.
I trusted that information enough to ask Stobarts to remove me from their contact lists - full stop.
Said photo has materialised… Probably BS as you said. 0
What does the * condition say in tiny writing down the bottom of the ad? I can’t read it here. What are the rates above 50hrs?
trubster:
I am led to believe that Stobrats are offering £11.05 for Night Drivers, I am awaiting a picture to prove it, otherwise it is BS
The picture don’t prove nowt. I applied for the £38k job - and got told (when being given my averly assessment date) it’s “£8.10ph for midweek nights”…
And this… In the southeast FFS.
I trusted that information enough to ask Stobarts to remove me from their contact lists - full stop.
Said photo has materialised… Probably BS as you said. 0
What does the * condition say in tiny writing down the bottom of the ad? I can’t read it here. What are the rates above 50hrs?
something like the rate includes all available allowances.
So you would probably have to do a shift without breaking hard or whatever.
A regular wage doesn’t include “optional” or “non-permanent” elements.
You could say “Earn £1000 a week working as an owner driver for Fedex”…
There won’t be any queue though…
You’ll workj 16 hours a day 6 days a week to GROSS that much money, then you’ve got to take out all your running costs for your van…
If you’re lucky, and have a good accountant, you’ll take home about £650 a week. Not so good for 96 hours a week now is it?
50 hours for £28k that includes “tax free” elements could be argued “are not Stobarts to give” - since it’s an allowance from HMRC…
Then there’s the “fuel bonus”… Well even if your Peter Perfect - are you going to get that whilst off sick/on holiday?
If it’s not a regular part of your wage - it’s not part of your wage, and should therefore be discounted.
48 hours x £8.10ph and 5x1 hour unpaid meal breaks (53 hours a week at work, 48 on duty) is a measly £388.88 a week. Annualised, that’s £20217pa… Nearly £8k light. Any bonus should be what’s payable on TOP of the “headline Wage” eh?
Without reading past the first post, I want to illuminate the “licence holder” part of your DCPC trainer’s assertion. There are a great number of people who hold licenses but who no longer drive. I personally know one warehouse manager with a class 2 licence, 3 transport managers, numerous forklift drivers with HGV licenses, a tiler, a couple of post-retirees, and one member of royalty who hold HGV licenses of one type or another.
The million or so that have completed their DCPC are likely to be the ones who use their licence as their main source of income, such as you, I, and every other sod on here. However, I doubt every single wage earning driver has completed it, so there may be some ramifications for a while. But not many, and not for too long. They’ll catch up pretty quickly.
Winseer:
If you are “at work” over 60 hours a week - every week, week in, week out - then it’s BENT.
No it isn’t. It is only illegal if there is >60hrs recorded work and driving every week and over the reference period it averages >48hrs. However there’s nothing to stop you doing 70hrs a week every week for 20 weeks as long as 10hrs a week of that is recorded as break or PoA.
POA is NOT “time off work”.
You’re right, it isn’t but it doesn’t count because only work and driving are counted towards hours for the WTD. PoA and breaks do not count. Jesus christ, how do you not know this? THIS HAS BEEN THE CASE FOR NINE YEARS!!!
Think you need to do a DCPC module on WTD and drivers hours because you clearly don’t know about either or how to use PoA properly.
I’m saying the whole system is bent - the very suggestion that you can do 100+ hours at work a week if you want “just book it off as POA” is entirely absurd, and has only been allowed to this point - because the economy wants more hours for less pay out of it’s drivers!
My entire stance on this is one of a Union type argument over “interpretation” of the law as it stands.
YES you can do as many hours as you want. YES you can kill people “by accident” and you won’t be strung up for it.
What is “legal” isn’t always what is “moral”. I’ll do the long hours on a week one basis like any other agency driver BUT I will NOT do “over-hours” week in week out.
If the “law” says its right and proper to work excessive hours - then I’m going to interpret the whole law as being “Bent” in that it’s against the interests of public and personal safety which trumps everything else.
I don’t want to die, nor kill anyone - just because some yard demands I perform an unsafe act or acts. Bugger the legalities. It’s common sense - which sadly has less and less to do with modern law as the years roll on.
Winseer:
I’m saying the whole system is bent - the very suggestion that you can do 100+ hours at work a week if you want “just book it off as POA” is entirely absurd, and has only been allowed to this point - because the economy wants more hours for less pay out of it’s drivers!
Trouble is, hauliers end up with their trucks ■■■■■■■ into extensive waiting times at drops or collection points. Some people think four hours waiting at a RDC is a drag, but I used to run out of a steel place where all the coil carriers would be lined up early of a morning. I’d go out and do all my local and mid distance drops and when I returned later in the day, they would have moved about five vehicles up. Sometimes those coils would have to be run through a slitting machine, before there was enough physical room to unload the next vehicle. Eight or ten hours waiting was perfectly normal.
Then you have the traffic. Years ago you might get held up in a bad snarl up about once a month is things turned sour, whereas it almost seems a daily event nowadays, none of which help the truck to get to where it is going in any reasonable timescale.
Work in a factory or a shop and you can time your going home time to within a minute, but just not possible for mobile workers, which also includes sales reps, coach drivers, service engineers etc.
LIBERTY_GUY:
‘… My dcpc … is a totally worthless piece of plastic that serves no real purpose. It doesn’t make anyone a better driver, or protect other road users…’
Not strictly true since the DCPC perfectly demonstrates how pro-EU, UK MP’s are blindly hell-bent on subordinating us all to invalid & hideously inefficient nonsense from Brussels, eg., 35 hours to learnwhat?
Meanwhile, take a glimpse at how supposedly professional cabbies behave in their too often poorly piloted sheds-on-wheels: Round my way they’re hopeless - yet they collect tips galore ranging from the pee’d-up to rickety pensioners (possibly from their relief at not getting killed en-route?)
cheekymonkey:
Also, reading some posters, they say they`re going to not do it and just wing it until they get pulled. How much is this a realistic position? Are there really companies out there who will allow drivers to continue without the CPC?
Sounds a little far fetched to me.
There have been many instances of UK based lorries being pulled in recent times, where the driver hasn’t even got a valid driving license and one small haulier oop north somewhere that not only had no operators license, but when Vosa checked over the fleet two of them were actually stolen vehicles.
I have no doubt a few chancers will take the risk on not getting pulled in the next 12 months, especially if they getting close to retirement age, or currently looking for a job outside the industry. My dcpc cost me £300, but no idea how much someone would get fined, as lets be honest, it truly is a totally worthless piece of plastic that serves no real purpose. It doesn’t make anyone a better driver, or protect other road users.
did my last cpc on saturday we were shown an emyther from the dvsa stating there will be no leeway from the tenth and if you are not carrying your blue card it is a £1000 fine for you and the same for your employer so its £300 well invested by you wether you agree its wothwhile or not
One of the reasons why there is demand for temp drivers now is that many fleets have just woken up to the fact that there’s this thing called the Driver CPC…which was announced 10 years ago…and they need to get their drivers through five days of training…which they’ve had five years to do.
cheekymonkey:
Also, reading some posters, they say they`re going to not do it and just wing it until they get pulled. How much is this a realistic position? Are there really companies out there who will allow drivers to continue without the CPC?
Sounds a little far fetched to me.
There have been many instances of UK based lorries being pulled in recent times, where the driver hasn’t even got a valid driving license and one small haulier oop north somewhere that not only had no operators license, but when Vosa checked over the fleet two of them were actually stolen vehicles.
I have no doubt a few chancers will take the risk on not getting pulled in the next 12 months, especially if they getting close to retirement age, or currently looking for a job outside the industry. My dcpc cost me £300, but no idea how much someone would get fined, as lets be honest, it truly is a totally worthless piece of plastic that serves no real purpose. It doesn’t make anyone a better driver, or protect other road users.
did my last cpc on saturday we were shown an emyther from the dvsa stating there will be no leeway from the tenth and if you are not carrying your blue card it is a £1000 fine for you and the same for your employer so its £300 well invested by you wether you agree its wothwhile or not
It would be if I was actually driving for a living. I took the dcpc because I was thinking of returning to driving, but sadly the driving scene seems to be dominated by retail deliveries at the moment in this part of the world and to be honest I would rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than do shop deliveries.
…I’m thinking that the reason “shop deliveries are so unpopular” is actually a whole bunch of different reasons - depending on the driver, and where they live in the UK.
If you live in the north, and are on agency - being told to report to Iceland, Tesco, Coop or whatever is going to have you chomping at the bit - IF it’s January, and you know you’re looking at a blank payslip if you decide you’re too good for “retail deliveries”…
If you live darn sarth, then it’s perhaps more likely to be about the money… I don’t work midweek on deliveries any more, because I’m sick of being paid less than those working next to me. By sticking to the weekend work, I can still get away with doing just about any job - because the money seems fairer.
Then there’s the third ‘bigger picture’ option: There are a growing number of firms like TRG who want to contract you into store deliveries week in and week out - whilst you are still an agency driver in all but name.
If I’m going to work full time anywhere - I’ll want to be a full timer directly employed - and NOT by some middleman contract/umbrella outfit like TRG.
This, of course, is the main thing one gains from being with a decent agency who lets you pick and choose exactly what you want to pick up, and does not pressure you into doing jobs you don’t like on days you don’t even want to be working - as too many other agencies do alas…
LIBERTY_GUY:
‘… the driving scene seems to be dominated by retail deliveries at the moment in this part of the world and to be honest I would rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than do shop deliveries…’
Such drops have defo got more miserable in my experience as ‘front-of-store’ is more of a financial priority than keeping their yard areas ‘managed’. It’s understandable really - since who’d prefer to nail Cinderella’s stinking sister…?
Rather than confront the little darlings in their mincing, ‘clip-clop’ shoes when I can’t get in, I now ring-in to my desk (as per last night) whereupon I suddenly get much better service from them via our Duty Manager who phones them up to ‘get their stuff in a sock’ than if I - with the best diplomatic will in the World - ask them (nicely) to sort it out.
Hey presto: Win-win - so when’s the EU gonna give shop darlings a week-long, classroom based & expensive CPC, or was that why I sat through such dirge
I took the dcpc because I was thinking of returning to driving, but sadly the driving scene seems to be dominated by retail deliveries at the moment in this part of the world and to be honest I would rather be poked in the eye with a sharp stick than do shop deliveries. 
