Where I work we pull roller shutter fridge trailers with cages/pallets to supermarkets. Recently due to a change of policy it is now the loaders who will apply the door seal on an encrypter and provide the driver with the load plan. No longer are drivers allowed to check their load before departure.
I’ve disputed this as I’m not comfortable putting my licence and livelihood on the line because I relied on a loader saying it was all secure.
Can anyone provide sensible advice around the legalities please?
I can’t give any legal advice, but even when my motor was loaded overnight, I refused to move it until I’d checked for load security and more than once had it put right before leaving.
Technically the driver is still responsible, but its like containers, you cant check a sealed one of those.
Sounds like unless there was a significant external reason for you to believe the truck was badly loaded such as tilting to one side, VOSA would be hard pushed to enact enforcement action against you.
I would take a pic of the lock before setting off just incase management ever lied that you could check it, as all evidence in your favour will help.
Btw, if you want to mess with management, ask them what happens if VOSA or police want to check the contents enroute. I assume you don’t have the combo
I would also ask them for a letter stating they accept responsibility for the loading and that the driver has no access to the load pre setoff.
Write an email/letter to your management: say you as the driver are responsible for load security. Ask them how you can check such, OR can they confirm they will take all responsibility for such?
In writing, wake them up.
.
If you work for a well organised, large outfit, this should already be in a protocol somewhere.
If it’s an idiot trying to look professional, pass the buck back to them.
Tesco’s use the Secureseal system, a little known fact but you ARE allowed to open the back just so long as you go to outbound traffic to get the new Secureseal code rubber stamped and signed off on the paperwork.
Hey stuwazere, I wonder if I could hijack your thread and ask a similar question. I’m new to trucking, have got another full time job and am doing casual hgv1 driving to gain experience till I can give up my job and drive full time.
The company I do casual work for have been brilliant taking me on at such a time and I will be loyal to them for that. I’ve only done three days work for them so far; got another day this next friday. I like the jobs where I hitch to an empty trailer then go get loaded somewhere cus I can secure the load to my satisfaction. BUT, in a couple of occasions so far I have been told to go collect a loaded trailer and take it to so and so only to find that the contents have not been secured. The load has been pallets of soft drinks and I even spoke to a driver … great guy who taught me about curtain sides …who was happy to carry such a load with only two strops across the back.
I still work for the police, I used to be a copper, so want to do things right. I’m sure the dvsa would expect each row of pallets to have restraints for side movement and not rely on friction and gravity.
My dilemma though is, I am willing to go in earlier, unpaid, and secure the pallets but once loaded it’s almost impossible to reach the internal straps to slide them along the load. The straps tend to be stored in a gap in the headboard.
What is the right thing to do? I know the other drivers have the experience that I lack, but is it cutting corners to rely on the load being against the headboard with just two crossed straps to the rear? Stuwasere began by asking about responsibility and I know the driver at the time is ultimately responsible so what would you guys and galls do if faced with such a load■■?
Are they load bearing curtains is one thing…
Also it would help if you found out how heavy the pallets are?
Above a certain weight they would be required to be strapped, under that weight you’re fine.
Also, don’t think internal straps are acceptable of they are above that weight…
I have a vague recollection from cpc its 400kgs, please don’t take that as gospel, I’m gonna check myself now I’ve said it.
Would think that pallets of drinks would be above it though.
We do pallets of bottled water that are 1.1t but we use a solid body truck.
You can secure goods or unstacked pallets that weigh less than 400kg per item:
using buckle straps that hang from the roof of the body structure
with inner curtains - see light palletised goods
Treat goods and pallets over 400kg - and stacked pallets if the combined weight of the stack is more than 400kg - as heavy goods.
Heavy goods
Secure heavy goods that weigh more than 400kg per item or pallet with:
lashing
load-rated nets
tarpaulins with integral straps
Whatever method you use, it must be able to restrain half the weight of the load to the side and rear, and the full weight forward.
This is the minimum standard for normal road driving.
Ah, that is interesting; they are load bearing curtains but I now need to check the weight of the palletts. I don’t really know if it says on the docs; I know it gives the number of pallets so I should look at the overall weight and divide pallets with weight etc.
I thought I had read that curtains or not, loads should be treated as though on a flatbed.
Trev, I really appreciate your reply. I will check weights against the number of pallets. Just goes to show from My RAF days on mountain rescue, you can’t bag experience. I think I should have trusted the other drivers. Got another question 're coupling but have hijacked this thread enough. Thanks.
JonS:
Ah, that is interesting; they are load bearing curtains but I now need to check the weight of the palletts. I don’t really know if it says on the docs; I know it gives the number of pallets so I should look at the overall weight and divide pallets with weight etc.
I thought I had read that curtains or not, loads should be treated as though on a flatbed.
Trev, I really appreciate your reply. I will check weights against the number of pallets. Just goes to show from My RAF days on mountain rescue, you can’t bag experience. I think I should have trusted the other drivers. Got another question 're coupling but have hijacked this thread enough. Thanks.
Try this gov.uk/government/publicati … r-guidance
Any specific queries ask on a new thread. (but dont worry...TNUK drivers dont often take a straight line route)
Watch and learn from other drivers, but dont follow blindly. Even old ■■■■■ arent perfect, it isnt just the newbies that get things wrong.....dont ask how I know…
JonS , the weight of each pallet for the drinks maybe a printed label on each pallet , the weight should be there .
The other dilemma is that the law requires each row of pallets , as the drinks will be over 400kgs per pallet , to be strapped with a ratchet strap and not internals .
If you are stood at the side of the load , DVSA want a strap at the front of the pallet ,to stop forward movement ( Harsh braking , or an accident ) , one over the side and one over the rear , which is three straps per one row .
At the loading point , they will refuse to load if the driver is inside the trailer due to health and safety drivers break their hips from falling off trailers . And they don’t want us walking over the product damaging either plastic or glass bottles with a load refused for their customers .
Once they have loaded the trailer it will be harder to get a strap in front and back of pallets as there is gap , the easy way is to strap it as they load it but not allowed and some places it’s sit in the cab and stay away ,another point is damage to the load when strapping as in crushed bottles .
For loads using internal straps , nothing more annoying to find the internals trapped under the pallets or trapped at the headboard unable to use them .
Another issue is you strap a load and you have used up all your ratchet straps provided then told to drop the trailer at base for another driver to deliver it , but that trailer has all your straps , and now get another load that needs strapping but no straps .
Or another scenario is at a delivery point , they unload the trailer of drinks through the rear doors , that means taking off the straps before getting on the bay .Which means climbing over the load and some places won’t allow that .
stuwozere1:
Where I work we pull roller shutter fridge trailers with cages/pallets to supermarkets. Recently due to a change of policy it is now the loaders who will apply the door seal on an encrypter and provide the driver with the load plan. No longer are drivers allowed to check their load before departure.
I’ve disputed this as I’m not comfortable putting my licence and livelihood on the line because I relied on a loader saying it was all secure.
Can anyone provide sensible advice around the legalities please?
Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk
If as you say the loaders seal the trailer then its down to them, BUT saying that after a few yards you touch your brakes you should feel any movement. Not happy, back into the Orifice and tell them you want it back on a deck put the onus back in their court.
Where I worked, before retiring, loading procedure was strap every third row and strap and bar the last row. Mixed load was strap and bar the last row before any pallets went on and a bar before any more cages went on. As you say its your Licence that goes with you where ever you work not the Company of the day.
Many years ago I “lost” a steel coil on Highbury roundabout, whilst on night trunk,got away with it. It was deemed that because I was not in attendance when the trailer was loaded and secured I could only make a “walk around” check for load safety. It turned out the chains and toggles used had a fault.
the nodding donkey:
A gamekeeper turning poacher?? Interesting. Will you be embellishing your truck in a garish 1980’s style?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
it cant be slimebag angus as even though he got his last final written warning for lying and other underhand practices then he would know enough not to be asking questions like that.
2 across the back,crack on and dont be a fanny has worked well enough until the snowflake generation of steering attendants arrived on the scene ( this also applies to the latest vosa lemmings).
for a sealed box,then rally it around the yard and if you get out the gate without it ending up on its side,then itl be dead on.
any carnage when they open the back doors is down to the loaders…job done.
Thanks toby1234; that is why I like it when I am told to take an empty trailer to get it loaded so I can secure it how I feel is best. I saw another local truck at an RDC on my first day and that load had shifted and was only kept in the trailer by the curtain.
So, internal straps and a load bearing curtain are not enough. What would you guys do if your task for the day was to trunk such a load … say pallets of soft drinks that was already waiting in the yard but only had two straps crossed at the very back of the load? Would you take it and hope you don’t have to swerve cus someone cuts you up on a roundabout or hope vosa/dvsa don’t pull you on a spot check■■? Like I originally said, I’m new to trucking and trying to gain experience but don’t want to take unnecessary risks with my licence.
JonS:
Thanks toby1234; that is why I like it when I am told to take an empty trailer to get it loaded so I can secure it how I feel is best. I saw another local truck at an RDC on my first day and that load had shifted and was only kept in the trailer by the curtain.
So, internal straps and a load bearing curtain are not enough. What would you guys do if your task for the day was to trunk such a load … say pallets of soft drinks that was already waiting in the yard but only had two straps crossed at the very back of the load? Would you take it and hope you don’t have to swerve cus someone cuts you up on a roundabout or hope vosa/dvsa don’t pull you on a spot check■■? Like I originally said, I’m new to trucking and trying to gain experience but don’t want to take unnecessary risks with my licence.
The only way to secure a load like bottles, cans bricks ,etc (wether on pallets or not) is with a sheet (tarpaulin)or net, which forms tight around the goods, and pulls them in, rather than pulling through them, like a ratchet strap does.
Imagine the curtainsider as a flatbed, and how you would secure the load. That’s how you should ( note, I say 'should’ve… ) secure a load in a curtainsider.
But, the driver can only use what he’s given, and until the law specifies adequate restraints to be mandatory, we are left with a few inadequate ratchets, and left to carry the can (sorry about the pun…).
You can refuse to take a load if it’s not adequately secured, but in the real world nobody is going to put themselves out of a job like that. Just use what you have, to be seen to make an effort, and dont worry to much.
toby1234abc:
JonS , the weight of each pallet for the drinks maybe a printed label on each pallet , the weight should be there .
The other dilemma is that the law requires each row of pallets , as the drinks will be over 400kgs per pallet , to be strapped with a ratchet strap and not internals .
If you are stood at the side of the load , DVSA want a strap at the front of the pallet ,to stop forward movement ( Harsh braking , or an accident ) , one over the side and one over the rear , which is three straps per one row .
At the loading point , they will refuse to load if the driver is inside the trailer due to health and safety drivers break their hips from falling off trailers . And they don’t want us walking over the product damaging either plastic or glass bottles with a load refused for their customers .
Once they have loaded the trailer it will be harder to get a strap in front and back of pallets as there is gap , the easy way is to strap it as they load it but not allowed and some places it’s sit in the cab and stay away ,another point is damage to the load when strapping as in crushed bottles .
For loads using internal straps , nothing more annoying to find the internals trapped under the pallets or trapped at the headboard unable to use them .
Another issue is you strap a load and you have used up all your ratchet straps provided then told to drop the trailer at base for another driver to deliver it , but that trailer has all your straps , and now get another load that needs strapping but no straps .
Or another scenario is at a delivery point , they unload the trailer of drinks through the rear doors , that means taking off the straps before getting on the bay .Which means climbing over the load and some places won’t allow that .
No finer example…
Of why a curtainsider is completely unsuitable for this kind of load.
These kind of loads should be on a box trailer with solid walls to stop sideways movement and pallets blocked against each other to stop forward movement. No stupid strap this that way and strap that the other way cobblers. Drive them up through the back doors stick a load lock on 'em and go.
But because curtains are cheaper and the majority of sites are geared up to load them, you’ll still be pulling curtains in the wind and rain and then getting pulled over for ‘insecure load driver’ for the foreseeable future.
When I worked at Somerfield’s at Sherburn in Elmet, they brought in a similar system which was soon rejected by the unions. What they then did, was the trailer was sealed by the shunter, we broke it off when we got the trailer to check the load, then took the seal to the office to have it replaced before we left.
Quinny:
When I worked at Somerfield’s at Sherburn in Elmet, they brought in a similar system which was soon rejected by the unions. What they then did, was the trailer was sealed by the shunter, we broke it off when we got the trailer to check the load, then took the seal to the office to have it replaced before we left.
Simples.
Ken.
I’m at that depot now, only it’s Sainsbury’s. Some of the old timers told me the same.
If you could see how the loaders load, it boggles the mind to think that they are signing off to say its loaded well. At least with drivers checking there’s a better chance of saving an accident.
) secure a load in a curtainsider.