Scabs

[carryfast]

bobthedog:
And you still seem to labour under the impression that we would all be better off if we had to scrimp and save every penny for months just to have a TV in the house. So who is the commie? After all, the Altes DDR used to have to wait for years to get a family car, and that seems to be what you want.

Personally, I would think it better that we have some reward for what we do. You clearly think we should all wait and buy british even though the british manufacturers would be using chinese components.

More to the point, the thread was created to ask if you would cross a picket line. So would you, curry? Or would you think that, regardless of the grievance, the pickets have to be right because they are standing up to a communist (and fascist according to you), chinese speaking vietnamese who lives in the USA and banks in the Caymans and probably is a french lover and has a german mistress, and who, obviously, is out to destroy the workers in the UK?

You aren’t even funny anymore. You are like the tired old comedian on TV who hasn’t written a new joke in 30 years.

And you still seem to be in a fools paradise where no one seems to be able to realise (yet) that you can’t run an advanced western economy at these levels of trade deficit,based on your idea of cheap teles that only look cheap from the point of view of western economy workers,if they’re lucky enough to still have a job,earning unsustainable pre global free market wage rates,which will become clearer as time goes on unless the issue of the global free market can be reversed.

On the question of wether I’d cross a picket line it’s all a matter of having grown up in a different era in different times and I’ll just say that because of the changes in the law that the TUC allowed to be railroaded through by Thatcher,concerning secondary action,without calling a general strike first,and the likely levels of support they’d have got if they did and disillusionment with the way in which so many of the later generations,have come to view that type of unity as being outdated and unwarranted,I’d drive through now with the same conviction as that which I’d have turned around if this was the 1970’s or the miners strike of 1984.

Luckily though fate seems to have stepped in and retired me on health grounds before I ever had to do something that alien to my thinking.But having said that if I ever do go back to the job and find myself in that position I just hope that it’s a firm with a workforce mostly made of the Thatcher’s generations,who thought that what she did was right,who’ve suddenly realised that all of those previous generations of strikers,who’ve stuck together over the years,to make living standards better,were right after all.

[bobthedog]

Carryfast:
[And you still seem to be in a fools paradise where no one seems to be able to realise (yet) that you can’t run an advanced western economy at these levels of trade deficit,based on your idea of cheap teles that only look cheap from the point of view of western economy workers,if they’re lucky enough to still have a job,earning unsustainable pre global free market wage rates,which will become clearer as time goes on unless the issue of the global free market can be reversed.

There you sit, tapping away on your chinese computer, with your chinese stereo, chinese telly, chinese lamps on your chinese tables, preaching away at us that we are all wrong to buy something made in China. You say you have a Jag… well judging by the sort of ■■■■■■■■ you talk, I hope you have a good mechanic looking after it because you would have turned it into just another old banger by now. You suggest that your jag is more reliable than VW, or Beemers, or Toyotas… I say that is highly unlikely. And even if it were so, you must have a hell of a pension or insurance plan if you can afford to run the bloody thing.

That you have the brazen audacity to criticise the likes of me and the others on here for wanting a telly that doesn’t take the entire 6 oclock news just to warm up is amazing. It is especially amazing that you are using the very goods you condemn. Your silly point about the trade defecit is plain wrong. Whatever defecit there is in trade has nothing to do with Thatcher really. It started years before that when the unions blackmailed the counrty and made it so people had to plan days in advance when they were going to cook!!

Because of that, and the subsequent attempts to destabilise the nations economy by striking, demanding much more than they were collectively worth and blackmailing the people of the UK, firms went under and jobs were lost. So then they all become like you, don’t they. They get disability, early retirement, whatever else, then they become ■■■■■■■ keyboard warriors like you and spout utter ■■■■■■■■ about things they have never even tried or done.

So you now say that you would cross a picket. You even have a handy excuse for why you would, but the truth is you LIKE the comforts the worldwide economy gives you but are too pathetic to admit it.

You aren’t boiling my ■■■■ yet, and if this is the best you have then you never will. If that is what you are trying to do then let me tell you, you ain’t good enough or smart enough.

[carryfast]

bobthedog:

Carryfast:
[And you still seem to be in a fools paradise where no one seems to be able to realise (yet) that you can’t run an advanced western economy at these levels of trade deficit,based on your idea of cheap teles that only look cheap from the point of view of western economy workers,if they’re lucky enough to still have a job,earning unsustainable pre global free market wage rates,which will become clearer as time goes on unless the issue of the global free market can be reversed.

There you sit, tapping away on your chinese computer, with your chinese stereo, chinese telly, chinese lamps on your chinese tables, preaching away at us that we are all wrong to buy something made in China. You say you have a Jag… well judging by the sort of ■■■■■■■■ you talk, I hope you have a good mechanic looking after it because you would have turned it into just another old banger by now. You suggest that your jag is more reliable than VW, or Beemers, or Toyotas… I say that is highly unlikely. And even if it were so, you must have a hell of a pension or insurance plan if you can afford to run the bloody thing.

That you have the brazen audacity to criticise the likes of me and the others on here for wanting a telly that doesn’t take the entire 6 oclock news just to warm up is amazing. It is especially amazing that you are using the very goods you condemn. Your silly point about the trade defecit is plain wrong. Whatever defecit there is in trade has nothing to do with Thatcher really. It started years before that when the unions blackmailed the counrty and made it so people had to plan days in advance when they were going to cook!!

Because of that, and the subsequent attempts to destabilise the nations economy by striking, demanding much more than they were collectively worth and blackmailing the people of the UK, firms went under and jobs were lost. So then they all become like you, don’t they. They get disability, early retirement, whatever else, then they become [zb] keyboard warriors like you and spout utter ■■■■■■■■ about things they have never even tried or done.

So you now say that you would cross a picket. You even have a handy excuse for why you would, but the truth is you LIKE the comforts the worldwide economy gives you but are too pathetic to admit it.

You aren’t boiling my ■■■■ yet, and if this is the best you have then you never will. If that is what you are trying to do then let me tell you, you ain’t good enough or smart enough.

It would’nt matter if I was good enough or not because you’re never going to change your mind anyway.But anyway like me,but unlike those zb oriental heaps of the same age,the old Jag is a survivor from a different era except that I’ve made it even a lot faster than it was origininally when it was built over 25 years ago and like me it’s earn’t it’s retirement now so it does’nt do enough miles for the rip off price of petrol here to matter that much and it’s cheaper to insure than a mickey mouse Jap hatchback of the same age if any are left that is.

But my circumstances are’nt that much different to Del949 although he’s in an even more secure financial situation than I am.It remains to be seen wether the brave new world that you seem to like will provide the same in years to come for later generations of the country’s workers.

[bobthedog]

Your situation is very different to Dels. He has an open mind, you do not. His opinions are worth hearing, yours are drivel.

As for what the world will offer me, well I don’t know. I am insured, of course, so my son will be provided for and that is my main concern. You see, unlike you, I am prepared to continue working no matter what. I feel it is right to provide for my family. And before you spout about my not being unhealthy, I am suffering from arthritis, I have a cracked vertabra which refuses to heal. Both of these mean that sleep is hard to come by, and I could be registered disabled if I pushed for it, certainly I could in the UK. On top of my problems, I have my wife suffering from heart and kidney failure right now. She is due to start dialysis but can’t because her heart is not strong enough, and I am still working. You can say what you want, but anything you say will be your normal crap, won’t it.

Your Jag is a perfect example of the sort of nonsense you spout. So tell me, what is your usual runabout?

No, when it comes to you, I doubt I ever will change my mind. I have come across people that remind me of you many times, and I simply do not tolerate them around me. Proletariat to the core, as long as you have all you want. Selfish to the point of mania, yet not able to see it.

[kr79]

So basically carryfast you are a champagne socialist like john prescott and most of the bbc you harp on about how great socialism is but own your own home and drive a jag.
You go on about how great the 50s and 60s where when many working class familys were still living in slums with an outside bog and a tin bath and a tv was a dream for lots of people when we were still making lots of things in the uk.
What’s so wrong with people wanting more from life.
One of the reasons we failed in manufacturing is we didn’t innovate the Japanese took our ideas and developed them left to us we would probbaly still be listening to a radiogram and watching in black and white.

[wheel_nut]

kr79:
So basically carryfast you are a champagne socialist like john prescott and most of the bbc you harp on about how great socialism is but own your own home and drive a jag.
You go on about how great the 50s and 60s where when many working class familys were still living in slums with an outside bog and a tin bath and a tv was a dream for lots of people when we were still making lots of things in the uk.
What’s so wrong with people wanting more from life.
One of the reasons we failed in manufacturing is we didn’t innovate the Japanese took our ideas and developed them left to us we would probbaly still be listening to a radiogram and watching in black and white.

How can a 52 year old speak of the 50s and 60s about how things were so much better? some things maybe, no credit cards or work related stress, but I doubt my auntie who is almost 94 would want to go back to those times. she owns her own house with a refrigerator and a freezer, she can make a pot of tea in an instant without chopping wood or lighting a fire and she still has a driving licence, she doesn’t drive much but still owns a BMW designed Mini which her neighbour drives mainly and helps her with bulk shopping.

I like history and I am currently watching "Victorian Farm, but you honestly want to tell me they were better off or happier. Anyone who thinks an E type Jaguar is a better & more reliable car than an equivalent Japanese or German motorcar has obviously suffered from substance abuse at some time. Alec Issigonis and William Lyons were innovators of their time. Issigonis designed the Minor to the Maxi with the Mini in-between. William Lyons designed some very fine motor cars, but his judgement may have been clouded when he merged Jaguar with BMC in 1966

My father owned a pub and he bought a colour TV for the 1966 world cup, people talked about this huge electric box for many years. Even customers would come in during the day and ask to see the test card. My uncle didn’t get a telephone in his house until about 1970.

I reckon someone is speaking with forked tongues on most of the subjects posted on these and other forums.

But the only way to increase productivety in the haulage industry is by increasing the tonne/miles capacity of the operation,which,in relation to local work,using relatively low weight capacity trucks,is’nt viable.Which is why we don’t see local skip or tipper operators using 44 tonne drawbar outfits.However that idea does seem more logical in the case of long distance work.Which is why I’ve been saying let’s drive 65 tonners at American type speeds working for east european wages .But every one,including you,said that I’m nuts for even thinking of the idea and they’d be right.

This is one section of one of your posts, one that you have been parading for some time, with your superior knowledge of the haulage industry, do you know what East European wages actually are? If so please share your beliefs, at least driving smoky 65 tonne trucks at 65mph will give one section of the populace a job. The ■■■■■■ will get to repair the roads more often.

Sorry if this post is a bit disjointed, but following Carrion is like rounding up sheep without a dog.

[kr79]

Another problem with british industry was we came up with a great design such as the mini the original jaguar xj6 or the land rover or concord and we never improved on them whereas toyota took the land rover principal and kept evolving it with the land cruiser and if you get out to the oz outback or africa or the middle east you will see countless different land cruisers but not many defenders.
The original xj6 was a beautiful and innovative car but 10 years down the line when it should of been replaced by the xj40 series bl hadn’t invested enough and had to make do with a pinninfarina facelift for another 8 years whereas mercedes and bmw had introduced two or three new generations and were streets ahead.
It was the same with trucks scania volvo mercedes berliet fiat etc where offering trucks that where light years infront of leyland atkinson etc just think the atki borderer was still been made in 1975 and volvo introduced the f12 only two years later.
Another big problem was lots of british vehicle makers came up with good ideas but thought it was perfectly acceptable to let paying customers suffer while they perfected the design flaws such as triumphs flawed v8 which offered so much but was scuppered by been released to the market to early.
I know bmw suffered a major pr disaster with the nikasi engine problems in the 90s but they recalled and replaced numerous engines without a fuss and people where happy.

[carryfast]

kr79:
Another problem with british industry was we came up with a great design such as the mini the original jaguar xj6 or the land rover or concord and we never improved on them whereas toyota took the land rover principal and kept evolving it with the land cruiser and if you get out to the oz outback or africa or the middle east you will see countless different land cruisers but not many defenders.
The original xj6 was a beautiful and innovative car but 10 years down the line when it should of been replaced by the xj40 series bl hadn’t invested enough and had to make do with a pinninfarina facelift for another 8 years whereas mercedes and bmw had introduced two or three new generations and were streets ahead.
It was the same with trucks scania volvo mercedes berliet fiat etc where offering trucks that where light years infront of leyland atkinson etc just think the atki borderer was still been made in 1975 and volvo introduced the f12 only two years later.

Firstly the Mini was’nt a great design it was the type of thinking that produced the VW Beetle and the Trabant (in other words a car made for a world in which the working classes know their place and only the top grades are allowed something better.That’s Communism and Fascism combined).

In fact it was the XJ12 that was the most innovative Jaguar saloon design not the XJ6 and it was rightly described as the best car in the world more than once and if you’ve ever driven one with a bigger engine than standard,with a 5 speed manual box instead of the 3 speed auto,you’d change your mind about them not being improved on in just the same way that Alpina improved on the BMW saloons with a bit of extra simple aftermarket engineering.It’s just that the propaganda at the time always seemed to want to make the point that the German product was better when in fact it was’nt.But the reason why BL could’nt invest as much in development as it should have is because the international banking system preferred to invest in German and Japanese industry not British and it’s not surprising that German industry was’nt subject to as many disputes considering the difference between German wage levels and British ones.Which proves my point that what’s needed are high wage levels relative to prices if you want an advanced strong modern economy.

There’s also no way that the XJ40,on it’s introduction,could match the previous generation series 3 XJ 12 for speed and refinement (or styling),especially with those modifications,which is why they re engineered the thing later to take the V12,after Jaguar’s management,not the workers, had said that it could’nt be done,when a small firm near here in Leatherhead fitted an XJ 40 with a 7 Litre one with a 5 speed manual box which was a ‘bit’ (lot) faster than any BMW on the road at the time just like my old series 3 is faster,or at least as fast ,as any of the later generations of M5,with the exception of the latest V1O version although the technology of that generation M5 is’nt really viable to keep maintained unless you’re very rich,which,contrary to the idea of being a so called ‘champaigne socialist’ like Prescott and all the other waste of space government lot,I’m not .

The issue of the Atki versus the Volvo F12 is’nt the fault of the workers at the factory.The reason why the Atki was so far behind was because the British home market was so far behind Volvo’s home market in the demands of what the guvnors at the time wanted.So while we had guvnors calling for Gardner powered heaps Volvo was capitalising on it’s home market where the guvnors were calling for something a lot better until our guvnors finally saw the light when it was all too late for our home manufacturers.Although,depending on personal preferences,a big power Bedford TM with a Fuller box was arguably better than a Volvo.

And do you really think that a Toyota Landcruiser is better than a Range Rover .

[wheel_nut]

Carryfast:
Firstly the Mini was’nt a great design it was the type of thinking that produced the VW Beetle and the Trabant (in other words a car made for a world in which the working classes know their place and only the top grades are allowed something better.That’s Communism and Fascism combined).

In fact it was the XJ12 that was the most innovative Jaguar saloon design not the XJ6 and it was rightly described as the best car in the world more than once and if you’ve ever driven one with a bigger engine than standard,with a 5 speed manual box instead of the 3 speed auto,you’d change your mind about them not being improved on in just the same way that Alpina improved on the BMW saloons with a bit of extra simple aftermarket engineering.

And do you really think that a Toyota Landcruiser is better than a Range Rover .

So in the world of yours truly, the best car in the world needed a new engine and gearbox to compete with the competition. Unbelievable.

Better is subjective. Better at what?

The Land Cruiser has existed in its current form since 1951, the Range Rover since 1970. The Land Cruiser is the biggest selling SUV in the world I believe

[newmercman]

Every once in a while even the biggest lunatics make sense, just in case you missed it, here is a moment of sanity from our resident madman

Carryfast » Tue Jan 18, 2011 9:55 am
German industry was’nt subject to as many disputes considering the difference between German wage levels and British ones.Which proves my point that what’s needed are high wage levels relative to prices if you want an advanced strong modern economy.

[spacemonkeypg]

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:
Firstly the Mini was’nt a great design it was the type of thinking that produced the VW Beetle and the Trabant (in other words a car made for a world in which the working classes know their place and only the top grades are allowed something better.That’s Communism and Fascism combined).

In fact it was the XJ12 that was the most innovative Jaguar saloon design not the XJ6 and it was rightly described as the best car in the world more than once and if you’ve ever driven one with a bigger engine than standard,with a 5 speed manual box instead of the 3 speed auto,you’d change your mind about them not being improved on in just the same way that Alpina improved on the BMW saloons with a bit of extra simple aftermarket engineering.

And do you really think that a Toyota Landcruiser is better than a Range Rover .

So in the world of yours truly, the best car in the world needed a new engine and gearbox to compete with the competition. Unbelievable.

Better is subjective. Better at what?

The Land Cruiser has existed in its current form since 1951, the Range Rover since 1970. The Land Cruiser is the biggest selling SUV in the world I believe

It’s the Ford explorer i think

[kr79]

You are obviously trying to make up for something in the trouser department with your derision of small cars of all the cars I’ve owned my alltime favourite has to be a peugeot 205 gti the mini was a piece of design and brilliance in its day but should have been consigned to the history books way before it was.
I pointed out the f12 and atki just as an example of been poles apart you are right about lots of bosses only wanting gardner powered relics when we should of been looking at building trucks like the f88 and scania 110 for the new motorway age but it was bad management to keep building them. Scania and volvo and others kept evolving there products and operators had to live with it. Its not as if the british makers didn’t have the knowledge to build similar trucks I don’t know if you are aware of the trucks atkinson foden and erf built for the Australian market with big power ■■■■■■■ engines and large modern sleeper caps in the late 60s early 70s.
I’ve owned both a range rover and a land cruiser and for snob value the range rover wins but as a machine for when the going gets tough and reliability I’d have the land cruiser.
What we could do with in the uk which both parties have ignored is we don’t need every school leaver to go to university but how about a few builders and engineers etc

[carryfast]

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:
Firstly the Mini was’nt a great design it was the type of thinking that produced the VW Beetle and the Trabant (in other words a car made for a world in which the working classes know their place and only the top grades are allowed something better.That’s Communism and Fascism combined).

In fact it was the XJ12 that was the most innovative Jaguar saloon design not the XJ6 and it was rightly described as the best car in the world more than once and if you’ve ever driven one with a bigger engine than standard,with a 5 speed manual box instead of the 3 speed auto,you’d change your mind about them not being improved on in just the same way that Alpina improved on the BMW saloons with a bit of extra simple aftermarket engineering.

And do you really think that a Toyota Landcruiser is better than a Range Rover .

So in the world of yours truly, the best car in the world needed a new engine and gearbox to compete with the competition. Unbelievable.

Better is subjective. Better at what?

The Land Cruiser has existed in its current form since 1951, the Range Rover since 1970. The Land Cruiser is the biggest selling SUV in the world I believe

The ‘best car’ in the world only needed a ‘different’ ‘bigger’ engine and a manual box to go with it depending on personal choice.In standard form,in this context,we’re already comparing a car which could run at around almost 150 mph (still faster than an Alpina E3) with one that could run at 135 mph at best even though,the fastest,more expensive, BMW competitor (3.0 SI) at the time when the XJ 12 was a relatively new design,had a four speed manual against the Jag’s 3 speed auto.So by your logic all of the (expensive) BMW developments that followed,like the E28 and E34 M5,with the ongoing developments of the M88 motor,which could only manage the ‘ultimate’ figure of just 295 lbs/ft of torque and around 340 horses (just so long as you revved the nuts off the thing at over 4,500 rpm and almost 7,000 rpm respectively) in it’s final 3.8 version in 1992-96,proved that the ‘ultimate driving machine’ needed a series of new engines to (try to) compete with the ‘competition’ just the same.

However the TWR 6.0 Litre motor in my Jag was available from 1989/90 and with a similar type of engine management as the BMW runs with,which I’ve fitted it with,it puts out 400lbs/ft of torque and more than 350 horses at less than 3000 rpm and less than 5500 rpm respectively.However there have been other even bigger and/or more powerful tuned versions than that of the Jag motor,available since the 1970’s.So at the time and price the XJ did’nt have much competition wether it was standard or not.But the Brit motor industry bashers have never let the truth stand in the way of bs and double standards.Which is why if Britain had left something in production for as long as that Land Cruiser we’d then get blamed for flogging outdated products.But there’s never been anything ‘subjective’ about the Range Rover’s combination of offroad and on road performance versus a Land Cruiser unless there’s a 500 horsepower Land Cruiser option which is’nt in the brochure.

[carryfast]

kr79:
You are obviously trying to make up for something in the trouser department with your derision of small cars of all the cars I’ve owned my alltime favourite has to be a peugeot 205 gti the mini was a piece of design and brilliance in its day but should have been consigned to the history books way before it was.
I pointed out the f12 and atki just as an example of been poles apart you are right about lots of bosses only wanting gardner powered relics when we should of been looking at building trucks like the f88 and scania 110 for the new motorway age but it was bad management to keep building them. Scania and volvo and others kept evolving there products and operators had to live with it. Its not as if the british makers didn’t have the knowledge to build similar trucks I don’t know if you are aware of the trucks atkinson foden and erf built for the Australian market with big power ■■■■■■■ engines and large modern sleeper caps in the late 60s early 70s.
I’ve owned both a range rover and a land cruiser and for snob value the range rover wins but as a machine for when the going gets tough and reliability I’d have the land cruiser.
What we could do with in the uk which both parties have ignored is we don’t need every school leaver to go to university but how about a few builders and engineers etc

How could it have been ‘bad management’ to keep building those old gutless relics when if they’d have built anything different the guvnors would have left them on the shelf.The British manufacturers were in a Catch 22 situation at that time.As proved by the fact that they did’nt get any domestic orders for those export spec Atkis just like Bedford did’nt get many/any for the TM 4400 which mostly all went to Italy.

Sorry but no my all time favourite is the Jag which I’ve got thanks but I’d also like a Ferrari 550 and an Aston DB9 to go with it and you won’t find many owners of any of those who’d want to swap them for a Peogeot 205 GTI or a Mini.

But I was once one of those school leavers who did leave school to go into engineering but factory work was never my preferred choice and on that note if you think that it’s difficult to get into engineering from school,instead of office work,you should see what happens when you ask the careers advisor about starting out in road transport instead,at least in that’s how it was in 1975 anyway.It’s more likely that they’ll be offered the choice of working in a hamburger cafe or go to university and then work in a hamburger cafe with a load of wasted university fees to pay for these days though.

[bobthedog]

Curryfart, I have decided I have had enough of your stupid posts. Right now, after todays trouble, I am simply not equipped to deal with someone who posts such utter bilirubin as you. Your posts should be in brown type because they are crap… Take this piece of one as an example…

Carryfast:
Firstly the Mini was’nt a great design it was the type of thinking that produced the VW Beetle and the Trabant (in other words a car made for a world in which the working classes know their place and only the top grades are allowed something better.That’s Communism and Fascism combined).

Sorry mods, but I have had an unbelievably bad day and am going to say it.

The above snippet goes to show that you are a troll of the worst kind. You try to tell us how working men need to do this or that when you clearly never have had the slightest inkling of what you are talking about. Your posts are beyond the level of troll, and into the realms of self deluded and self absorbed ■■■■■■■■.

Consider yourself ignored. I have had enough of you.

[bobthedog]

looks as though I double posted.

[kr79]

I realy cant be bothered anymore

[spacemonkeypg]

I should have ignored the bone head ages ago, but just done it now