Scabs

Spacemonkeypg:
While i am only 31 and of no political direction my knowledge of the unions and there movement are not of the positive side at all.

10 people died in the miners strike causing the three day week, where unions and their members attempted to bring down the society of the UK and failed. There are positive and negative points and reasons over the miners and their strike i am sure. But for example the taxi driver who was killed taking a miner to work and the teenagers attempting to get coal.

Then their is the BA strike, i can imagine the low cost airline staff dreaming of the T&C’s BA staff get in their contract in stark comparison to their terms of employment. Not only that the action deliberate in its timing to cause distress and hardship for members of the general public.

Post Office if the wind blows the wrong way then they throw out ballot papers left right and centre - more interestingly is the partisan strike action taken by each individual depot.

Tube drivers, in this instance its just pure lunacy. £40k starting salary YES starting salary plus 40 days holiday plus free TFL transport. The latest strike is to get TRIPLE pay plus a day in leu if they work a bank holiday.

The four most common factors with these is they are all former public or still are public sector workers. Who seem to think they have to automatic right to work in a non-profitable fashion and the general ideology of work as little for as much as i can. Wastage of any form is nearly encouraged and service levels take a second nature to workers over rights.

Maternity midwives, nurses, doctors, police, private sector workers (majority), health care workers and soldiers have terms and conditions of their employment which in comparison to the above are/where a dam heck worse. But they are not militant in their attitudes they are not consistent moaners they do the work they are employed to do.

A family two doors down the road from me don’t work. They claim what ever form of benefit they can. The man, i have been informed by his partner jumps from JSA to DLA depending on the nature and the closeness of the social security worker into investigating his claim. If he has been unemployed for a certain period of time he moves to DLA under stress of what ever he can pull out of the hat. Then moves back to JSA wiping his time served on JSA thus avoiding the forced work/education placed on claimants. This said fellow apart from having sky tv, sky sports, all the matching sports clothing, working at the furniture removal shop at the top of the road and smoking pot is considered to be on the bread line. He see’s his benefits as his RIGHT in society and considers his benefit payment as a pay day when it comes through. Many normal people would see this person as bleeding UK system dry.

This mentality is the same for unions and union workers. The only difference is that they bleed/ attempt to bleed companies and or UK departments dry. With the miss belief they are entitled to a hell of a lot more than the man on the front line dodging IED’s and bullets putting something back into the UK rather than attempting to take it out.

I would love to place a striking tube driver in front of this man thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne … ?offset=10 and watch him try to explain why he deserves to strike for MORE money.

Then once he has explained his actions i think i would like to introduce him to this fellow telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … mbers.html and again ask him to explain not only why he gets the right for more but also a right to a pay rise while others are tightening their belts.

As i have said i’m 31 and i have worked since the age of 11 non stop. I can honestly say that all i have ever seen in todays society is take take take. At the forefront of this trend is benefit claimants and unions i am afraid.

Sounds to me like you’re just one of that generation who’s been indoctrinated by the societal values since Thatcher came to power.It might come as a shock but unlike you I was around when the miners were on strike and the three day week was introduced and there were plenty of people working in industry at that time,who actually supported their actions,like my late Dad for one,and who were ex WW2 vets who,just like that bloke in the photo, put themselves in harms way and got the country out of the zb.

However the Tory press has never let the truth stand in the way of using a one sided view that ‘heroes’ are only on their side and try to forget the fact that there are just as many ‘heroes’ on the (in their view) ‘wrong’ side of the age old trade union (socialist government supporting lot) versus management (tory government supporting lot) issue.

You say that you’re of no political direction but I’d disagree with that as it’s clear from reading that post that your political ideals are clear enough cut and not surprising considering the years you’ve grown up through.

If you really want to know what no political direction means try the idea of being able to understand that not everything about socialism is bad in just the same way as not everything about good old fashioned working class Capitalist America is bad.Yes even the yanks had unions and took industrial action when they needed to and just like that soldier paid the price both often on the battle field and at work.

pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr190/cox.htm

district196.org/rhs/english/ … labor.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_D … re_of_1937

Carryfast:

Spacemonkeypg:
While i am only 31 and of no political direction my knowledge of the unions and there movement are not of the positive side at all.

10 people died in the miners strike causing the three day week, where unions and their members attempted to bring down the society of the UK and failed. There are positive and negative points and reasons over the miners and their strike i am sure. But for example the taxi driver who was killed taking a miner to work and the teenagers attempting to get coal.

Then their is the BA strike, i can imagine the low cost airline staff dreaming of the T&C’s BA staff get in their contract in stark comparison to their terms of employment. Not only that the action deliberate in its timing to cause distress and hardship for members of the general public.

Post Office if the wind blows the wrong way then they throw out ballot papers left right and centre - more interestingly is the partisan strike action taken by each individual depot.

Tube drivers, in this instance its just pure lunacy. £40k starting salary YES starting salary plus 40 days holiday plus free TFL transport. The latest strike is to get TRIPLE pay plus a day in leu if they work a bank holiday.

The four most common factors with these is they are all former public or still are public sector workers. Who seem to think they have to automatic right to work in a non-profitable fashion and the general ideology of work as little for as much as i can. Wastage of any form is nearly encouraged and service levels take a second nature to workers over rights.

Maternity midwives, nurses, doctors, police, private sector workers (majority), health care workers and soldiers have terms and conditions of their employment which in comparison to the above are/where a dam heck worse. But they are not militant in their attitudes they are not consistent moaners they do the work they are employed to do.

A family two doors down the road from me don’t work. They claim what ever form of benefit they can. The man, i have been informed by his partner jumps from JSA to DLA depending on the nature and the closeness of the social security worker into investigating his claim. If he has been unemployed for a certain period of time he moves to DLA under stress of what ever he can pull out of the hat. Then moves back to JSA wiping his time served on JSA thus avoiding the forced work/education placed on claimants. This said fellow apart from having sky tv, sky sports, all the matching sports clothing, working at the furniture removal shop at the top of the road and smoking pot is considered to be on the bread line. He see’s his benefits as his RIGHT in society and considers his benefit payment as a pay day when it comes through. Many normal people would see this person as bleeding UK system dry.

This mentality is the same for unions and union workers. The only difference is that they bleed/ attempt to bleed companies and or UK departments dry. With the miss belief they are entitled to a hell of a lot more than the man on the front line dodging IED’s and bullets putting something back into the UK rather than attempting to take it out.

I would love to place a striking tube driver in front of this man thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne … ?offset=10 and watch him try to explain why he deserves to strike for MORE money.

Then once he has explained his actions i think i would like to introduce him to this fellow telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … mbers.html and again ask him to explain not only why he gets the right for more but also a right to a pay rise while others are tightening their belts.

As i have said i’m 31 and i have worked since the age of 11 non stop. I can honestly say that all i have ever seen in todays society is take take take. At the forefront of this trend is benefit claimants and unions i am afraid.

Sounds to me like you’re just one of that generation who’s been indoctrinated by the societal values since Thatcher came to power.It might come as a shock but unlike you I was around when the miners were on strike and the three day week was introduced and there were plenty of people working in industry at that time,who actually supported their actions,like my late Dad for one,and who were ex WW2 vets who,just like that bloke in the photo, put themselves in harms way and got the country out of the zb.

However the Tory press has never let the truth stand in the way of using a one sided view that ‘heroes’ are only on their side and try to forget the fact that there are just as many ‘heroes’ on the (in their view) ‘wrong’ side of the age old trade union (socialist government supporting lot) versus management (tory government supporting lot) issue.

You say that you’re of no political direction but I’d disagree with that as it’s clear from reading that post that your political ideals are clear enough cut and not surprising considering the years you’ve grown up through.

If you really want to know what no political direction means try the idea of being able to understand that not everything about socialism is bad in just the same way as not everything about good old fashioned working class Capitalist America is bad.Yes even the yanks had unions and took industrial action when they needed to and just like that soldier paid the price both often on the battle field and at work.

pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr190/cox.htm

district196.org/rhs/english/ … labor.html

Ok there seems to be confusion here when i state that i have no political direction it means exactly that. It does not mean that to justify your point of view you attempt to show i have allegiance to one particular form of social viewpoint, i hate to inform you that i dont. I would however be interested to hear your viewpoint on the “years i have grown up through” as from my memory 79-97 Conservative 97-09 Labour. It seems a fairly even split to me. If i have been indoctrinated into any societal value what so ever it would be that to find an honest person in the house of commons is like finding a needle in a haystack. With the people that seem to blindly convince themselves that one particular government is better than the other needs to seriously consider the black and white facts. They lie to get there, lie to stay there and lie to leave -simple.

In relation to your links you are posting references which are pre WW2 this in essence dissolves your argument somewhat as the relevance in today’s society of the actions in the 1930’s is diminished. You are talking of an era where Spain was still considered in the eyes of a growing Europe as third world and where the Americans still treated black or coloured people as second class.

You have also failed to justify how said people in the links of my post would approach that soldier (for only one example) in terms of justifying there unions actions and demands.

Spacemonkeypg:

Carryfast:

Spacemonkeypg:
While i am only 31 and of no political direction my knowledge of the unions and there movement are not of the positive side at all.

10 people died in the miners strike causing the three day week, where unions and their members attempted to bring down the society of the UK and failed. There are positive and negative points and reasons over the miners and their strike i am sure. But for example the taxi driver who was killed taking a miner to work and the teenagers attempting to get coal.

Then their is the BA strike, i can imagine the low cost airline staff dreaming of the T&C’s BA staff get in their contract in stark comparison to their terms of employment. Not only that the action deliberate in its timing to cause distress and hardship for members of the general public.

Post Office if the wind blows the wrong way then they throw out ballot papers left right and centre - more interestingly is the partisan strike action taken by each individual depot.

Tube drivers, in this instance its just pure lunacy. £40k starting salary YES starting salary plus 40 days holiday plus free TFL transport. The latest strike is to get TRIPLE pay plus a day in leu if they work a bank holiday.

The four most common factors with these is they are all former public or still are public sector workers. Who seem to think they have to automatic right to work in a non-profitable fashion and the general ideology of work as little for as much as i can. Wastage of any form is nearly encouraged and service levels take a second nature to workers over rights.

Maternity midwives, nurses, doctors, police, private sector workers (majority), health care workers and soldiers have terms and conditions of their employment which in comparison to the above are/where a dam heck worse. But they are not militant in their attitudes they are not consistent moaners they do the work they are employed to do.

A family two doors down the road from me don’t work. They claim what ever form of benefit they can. The man, i have been informed by his partner jumps from JSA to DLA depending on the nature and the closeness of the social security worker into investigating his claim. If he has been unemployed for a certain period of time he moves to DLA under stress of what ever he can pull out of the hat. Then moves back to JSA wiping his time served on JSA thus avoiding the forced work/education placed on claimants. This said fellow apart from having sky tv, sky sports, all the matching sports clothing, working at the furniture removal shop at the top of the road and smoking pot is considered to be on the bread line. He see’s his benefits as his RIGHT in society and considers his benefit payment as a pay day when it comes through. Many normal people would see this person as bleeding UK system dry.

This mentality is the same for unions and union workers. The only difference is that they bleed/ attempt to bleed companies and or UK departments dry. With the miss belief they are entitled to a hell of a lot more than the man on the front line dodging IED’s and bullets putting something back into the UK rather than attempting to take it out.

I would love to place a striking tube driver in front of this man thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne … ?offset=10 and watch him try to explain why he deserves to strike for MORE money.

Then once he has explained his actions i think i would like to introduce him to this fellow telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ … mbers.html and again ask him to explain not only why he gets the right for more but also a right to a pay rise while others are tightening their belts.

As i have said i’m 31 and i have worked since the age of 11 non stop. I can honestly say that all i have ever seen in todays society is take take take. At the forefront of this trend is benefit claimants and unions i am afraid.

Sounds to me like you’re just one of that generation who’s been indoctrinated by the societal values since Thatcher came to power.It might come as a shock but unlike you I was around when the miners were on strike and the three day week was introduced and there were plenty of people working in industry at that time,who actually supported their actions,like my late Dad for one,and who were ex WW2 vets who,just like that bloke in the photo, put themselves in harms way and got the country out of the zb.

However the Tory press has never let the truth stand in the way of using a one sided view that ‘heroes’ are only on their side and try to forget the fact that there are just as many ‘heroes’ on the (in their view) ‘wrong’ side of the age old trade union (socialist government supporting lot) versus management (tory government supporting lot) issue.

You say that you’re of no political direction but I’d disagree with that as it’s clear from reading that post that your political ideals are clear enough cut and not surprising considering the years you’ve grown up through.

If you really want to know what no political direction means try the idea of being able to understand that not everything about socialism is bad in just the same way as not everything about good old fashioned working class Capitalist America is bad.Yes even the yanks had unions and took industrial action when they needed to and just like that soldier paid the price both often on the battle field and at work.

pubs.socialistreviewindex.org.uk/sr190/cox.htm

district196.org/rhs/english/ … labor.html

Ok there seems to be confusion here when i state that i have no political direction it means exactly that. It does not mean that to justify your point of view you attempt to show i have allegiance to one particular form of social viewpoint, i hate to inform you that i dont. I would however be interested to hear your viewpoint on the “years i have grown up through” as from my memory 79-97 Conservative 97-09 Labour. It seems a fairly even split to me. If i have been indoctrinated into any societal value what so ever it would be that to find an honest person in the house of commons is like finding a needle in a haystack. With the people that seem to blindly convince themselves that one particular government is better than the other needs to seriously consider the black and white facts. They lie to get there, lie to stay there and lie to leave -simple.

In relation to your links you are posting references which are pre WW2 this in essence dissolves your argument somewhat as the relevance in today’s society of the actions in the 1930’s is diminished. You are talking of an era where Spain was still considered in the eyes of a growing Europe as third world and where the Americans still treated black or coloured people as second class.

You have also failed to justify how said people in the links of my post would approach that soldier (for only one example) in terms of justifying there unions actions and demands.

The so called Labour government one of 1997-2009 was actually,in reality,just a continuation of the old Wilson/Thatcher type of wage restraint = prosperity bs economy.

The relevance of those 1930’s examples shows that the WW2 generations were’nt all Tory supporters and all anti Labour/Union/Socialist.It also ‘should’ have helped you to understand that being a soldier does’nt mean always supporting the Tory viewpoint in the context that there’s been plenty of Trade Unionists over the years who’ve put their lives on the line in just the same way that he did.Just like those Trade Union members of my Dad’s generation who returned from WW2 and went from fighting the Germans to fighting their employers for better wages and conditions.

You’d probably also have been shocked to hear him and many of those of his generation,while actually having socialist sympathies,also having other views which,like mine,would be closer to those of the BNP,just like those Southern States ethnic european Americans had.So it’s possible to be a soldier and a left wing socialist trade union supporter,with right wing sympathies,who’s born and raised and lived in Surrey all your life not a mining part of Yorkshire.Seems to me you’ve got too many stereotypes in your outlook to be truly non politically directional.

libcom.org/library/labour-party- … solidarity

Wheel Nut:
I am not sure most Americans could even find Paris :wink:

Paris is in Texas Malc :laughing:

newmercman:

Wheel Nut:
I am not sure most Americans could even find Paris :wink:

Paris is in Texas Malc :laughing:

I suspect they still couldn’t find it… :laughing:

Spacemonkey, you post was one of the best I ever saw, and curryfairy still has to argue. I was around when the miners strike was on, too. I remember trucks having to put mesh over the windscreens and having police escorts. You cannot, ever, justify the level of violence leveeled at anyone who dared to argue with them, yet I think curryfairy is prepared to do just that.

That he agrees with unions long after they became the toothless tigers they now are, and that he still feels all bitter and twisted towards Maggie Thatcher 20 years after she was hoofed out of office just go to show how ludicous a person he is. Also, considering he never did more than drive a gritter and do night trunks, yet still feels he understands the UK transport industry, means he must have an IQ somewhere around 2000, or maybe 75…
“But you ain’t got no legs, Lieutenant Dan”

Ok this is proving even more difficult, as you continue to blindly accuse me of have either a political opinion and or political prejudice. I dont! i am beginning to understand that this concept to proving problematic for you you to grasp, however it is the truth.

The mere mention of Soldiers of any description being of any political back ground or belief was mentioned by you! not me. I could not be ar53d what their political beliefs are or what political party they follow. The only concern i would have is that they are worrying themselves with the idiotic ideal that a member of parliament or government is interested in the good of the fellow man, over there own selfish greed. To help assist you i could place quotations of the conversation we have had in this thread, but it would make more sense for you to review it yourself.

Once more i repeat please explain how unison’s leader, postmen and a tube driver would stand in front of said soldier and explain their RIGHTS over his. So far you have failed to explain their possibly justification and just scuddled over the topic.

That he agrees with unions long after they became the toothless tigers they now are, and that he still feels all bitter and twisted towards Maggie Thatcher 20 years after she was hoofed out of office just go to show how ludicous a person he is

Have I got this right?
Carryfast is ludicrous because he is still clinging to his beliefs of Thatcher 20 yeras ago.
But you’re not, even though you cling to your beliefs re the unions of the same period.
If as you claim, unions are toothless tigers now, doesn’t that make you ludicrous by the same definition?

bobthedog:

newmercman:

Wheel Nut:
I am not sure most Americans could even find Paris :wink:

Paris is in Texas Malc :laughing:

I suspect they still couldn’t find it… :laughing:

Spacemonkey, you post was one of the best I ever saw, and curryfairy still has to argue. I was around when the miners strike was on, too. I remember trucks having to put mesh over the windscreens and having police escorts. You cannot, ever, justify the level of violence leveeled at anyone who dared to argue with them, yet I think curryfairy is prepared to do just that.

That he agrees with unions long after they became the toothless tigers they now are, and that he still feels all bitter and twisted towards Maggie Thatcher 20 years after she was hoofed out of office just go to show how ludicous a person he is. Also, considering he never did more than drive a gritter and do night trunks, yet still feels he understands the UK transport industry, means he must have an IQ somewhere around 2000, or maybe 75…
“But you ain’t got no legs, Lieutenant Dan”

But it seems to have fallen on death ears!

This is in essence a form of extremism and blind belief. A justification of violence to reach an end cause en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

Spacemonkeypg:

bobthedog:

newmercman:

Wheel Nut:
I am not sure most Americans could even find Paris :wink:

Paris is in Texas Malc :laughing:

I suspect they still couldn’t find it… :laughing:

Spacemonkey, you post was one of the best I ever saw, and curryfairy still has to argue. I was around when the miners strike was on, too. I remember trucks having to put mesh over the windscreens and having police escorts. You cannot, ever, justify the level of violence leveeled at anyone who dared to argue with them, yet I think curryfairy is prepared to do just that.

That he agrees with unions long after they became the toothless tigers they now are, and that he still feels all bitter and twisted towards Maggie Thatcher 20 years after she was hoofed out of office just go to show how ludicous a person he is. Also, considering he never did more than drive a gritter and do night trunks, yet still feels he understands the UK transport industry, means he must have an IQ somewhere around 2000, or maybe 75…
“But you ain’t got no legs, Lieutenant Dan”

But it seems to have fallen on death ears!

This is in essence a form of extremism and blind belief. A justification of violence to reach an end cause en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11_attacks

Casus Belli is interesting if you read it, and compare Mr Blur’s actions

Yes and no, Del.

I am a self confessed dinosaur in some ways, but I have never been forced out of work by a government, and I refuse to be forced out of work by what is, by any standard, a private organisation like a union. And let’s face it, that is the crux of the matter. The government, Thatcher included, were elected by popular vote to run the country, meaning that the majority of the nations workers and population wanted the Thatcherite rule.
Unions were elected by workers in individual industries largely to maintain standards within their industry. Unfortunately, the unions decided they would bring the country to its knees by screwing up the industrial side of things. Had they been less militant then the government would never have felt the need to fight them. It was when they took on the might of a government that they lost, and that was inevitable.

It was a case of a small minority trying to undermine the wishes of the vast majority, which means that unions became completely anarchic and generated anarchy within the industry they were sworn to protect. So the decision to break them was both just and fair. The majority rules, after all.

It is easy for any of us to state our point of view about it all, but Thatcher did not destroy the coal industry, and she did not destroy the auto industry. Those industries considered themselves outside the law of the land. The pickets coerced, bullied, burned and murdered. How can you possibly justify that?

Double posted so I will add something.

There is an obvious difference of opinion and it seems to have some of its roots in the geographical location. Those in the North seem, by and large, to support unions and the proletariat at large, while those in the south do not seem to as much.

Of course, curryfart would agree with unions which is why he was a gritter driver for, I believe, a relatively short time. But Transport is a different ballgame and always has been/will be. Because of the fickle nature of the job, especially with our 24/7 convenience age, no union would ever really succeed. You will always have people like me, NMM, Wire, Wheelnut and countless others who will be prepared to work the overtime, and you will always have people like curryfart who believe that a shift should be no more than 8 hours, and that you should have 37 teabreaks in that 8 hours and an hour for lunch.

People like that will always believe in formulae and will consider that a late shift should pay an extra 13 pence per hour for it being dark outside, and that they should receive a pension at 45 because they have worked hard. Trouble is that those who have worked hard, and who will accept that doing a 13 hour day and parking up in an industrial park just so they keep the customer happy, will always earn more and will always be able to choose their jobs, which then breeds anger in those who do not act thus.

It is a vicious circle, and to believe that a union can help is ridiculous.

Now consider this. The WTD was dreamed up by the government and touted as a way of preventing exploitation of workers. Surely that means that the recently deposed labour morons were little more than a trade union, and the WTD was one of the most unpopular things ever according to these forums.

It is easy for any of us to state our point of view about it all, but Thatcher did not destroy the coal industry, and she did not destroy the auto industry. Those industries considered themselves outside the law of the land. The pickets coerced, bullied, burned and murdered. How can you possibly justify that?

Last point first, of course I can’t justify those violent actions, the same can be said of the police actions (approved by the government) in some incidents.

but Thatcher did not destroy the coal industry

She most certainly did!
The union, NUM , certainly did immeasurable damage to the industry but Thatcher actually shut the industry down.
Amongst other measures, she was responsible for the subsidies given to the developers of North Sea Gas, remember the “dash for gas”.
This encouraged a scramble to bring gas ashore and made our power stations dependant on it, when in fact the best long term solution was to leave it under the sea until we needed it. Thus now, as North Sea Gas dwindles we are more and more dependant on Russia etc for fuel supplies.
She also offered subsidies to the import of foreign coal simply for the reason that she had sworn never to let unions have any power again in the UK.
The import of cheap coal from Europe can be compared to the import of cheap transport from Europe, especially the cheap labour provision enabling it’
Think back to the posts on here re Willie Betz when he first started running in with “cheap foreign” drivers and the claims he was undercutting the British industry.
The economics of what she did beggars belief.
Shutting our own coal industry down with all the associated cost re redundancy and benefits to whole swathes of the country, all the purchase of foreign coal as an additional cost, all the subsidies to the gas industry (which she then sold off ).
Already the history books are re writing the Thatcher legacy, she was not the saviour of Britain, she was a woman who implemented a good idea and then got carried away with her own power and didn’t know when to stop.

(puts a cold cloth over forehead and chills out!)

bobthedog:
Now consider this. The WTD was dreamed up by the government and touted as a way of preventing exploitation of workers. Surely that means that the recently deposed labour morons were little more than a trade union, and the WTD was one of the most unpopular things ever according to these forums.

The WTD was not dreamed up by any British Government, it’s an EU directive, and like all EU directives, member states are required to enact it.

Neil is correct about the WTD

For the record i am a northern fellow and dont believe in Unions.

And finally from my knowledge the miners strike was on the closing of 20 pits. Which where subsidised to the hilt and considered non-profitable?

But like any EU directive, there is always a veto, isn’t there. After all, others ignore it. And Brown certainly lauded it and made it seem as though they had created it. In truth, the moment it was explained I decided to pay no heed and to get out of there anyway.

Whatever the reason for the miners strike that ended the industry, it would not have happened if the pits had remained profitable in the first place, would it, and they would have stood more chance of doing that without the unions busting their balls over money and conditions, surely?

It all makes no difference. That minority, consisting of the coal miners, threatened the government. They tried to bring the government down and that is in no way to be accepted, is it?

Besides, after being left to flood over the course of a year, the pits would never have reopened, same as the tin mines in Cornwall, and they went on strike as well. To blame the government for removing the extremist views that unions had is simply not right. They were a minority and were seemingly run by tin pot despots. They could not be allowed to continue, but they wouldn’t back down.

Oh, and I did qualify the statement about the north/south divide. I know it wasn’t unanimous.

bobthedog:
It all makes no difference. That minority, consisting of the coal miners, threatened the government. They tried to bring the government down and that is in no way to be accepted, is it?

As an elected body then that is totally acceptable after all the were not the NUM part of the voting public :question:

Only a small part of the voting public, and I doubt they voted for Maggie…

bobthedog:
Only a small part of the voting public, and I doubt they voted for Maggie…

But as voters, whether they voted conservative or not and no mateer how small in numbers they have every right to try and bring down a current government and elect a new one, that is democracy :exclamation:

Not by using violence, and when they lose then they deserve no mercy.

bobthedog:
Not by using violence, and when they lose then they deserve no mercy.

I agree violence is not the answer and the police should never have used that tactic :wink: