bobthedog:
Why the questions about working times, etc.?
Dont want to work weekends Bob so I’m judging Wage v Family time pro’s and con’s
BigJon:
Almussafes, Spain
Dagenham, United Kingdom
Cologne, Saarlouis, Germanythe above are the factories that made the Fiesta according to Wiki
So theres a chance it wasnt made in a british factory
Weren’t these all just parts plants, the engines were made in Dagenham, I think, panels in Koln and put together in Spain?
So many cars share parts ( and have done for years) that none really have a place they can call home!
As for who built the best cars, I wouldn’t vote for the UK
I have had an Austin Maestro, and an Austin Montego, (I know, I should have learned with the first one) both died at about 8 years old, I had them for about 4 years each, they were rotten and suffered many many break downs, I then switched to Mercedes I had a 190E that I kept for 12 years (17ears old by then) no rust, never broke down and sold for £600 to my friends father who is still driving it with no problems at 23 years old it is his daily drive… Next I bought a W210 (E300) I’ve had that for 6 years now, again no breakdowns sweet as a nut, but not worth much money now, I will drive that until it dies or I retire, I don’t envisage any problems, If I need another car and BL was still alive I can promise I wouldn’t even consider them after my last try with them. I couldn’t afford them, overall the cost of driving Merc’s has been less than half per year than the two British cars, and unsurprisingly, more pleasurable.
I put the blame squarely on the unions, to many times they walked out, mid week football was the biggest walk out day, go figure that out!
When BL should have been spending money on R&D and quality control they were wasting it on lost production days, it is hardly any wonder they died
here is an interesting view of British leyland by one of it’s mechanics
Carryfast:
Cheap as chips and bought by peasants probably that’s why.
More bollox from the bollock master… Out of the top 15 selling cars for November in the USA, 7 were Japanese.
Now, unlike you, I buy something which is reliable and gives me value for money. When I bought a brand new vehicle in the UK, I bought a Mitsubishi. I din’t buy it because it was cheap (it wasn’t) but because it had everything I wanted in a vehicle at the time. My trucks were Renaults, because they were cheap but also very reliable and light. The bottom line was that I was able to think of a future where I had no mania of British only, which is only a translation of Deutschland uber alles really. To hold you point of view would be ruinous for any normal person because we would all have had to wait 6 months for our vehicles if they were old school brit, and then they would have been falling apart around our ears because the workers would have been on strike twelve times while building the damned things and would have forgotten to do most of the tightening up.
I suspect you are Gordon Brown under a pseudonym because you have about as much idea as he does, and as little commonsense.
bobthedog:
and would have forgotten to do most of the tightening up.
Restrictive practices come into play there, if the tightner-upper is off that day, then no one else can do it (or we will call a strike). 
mickfly:
bobthedog:
and would have forgotten to do most of the tightening up.Restrictive practices come into play there, if the tightner-upper is off that day, then no one else can do it (or we will call a strike).
Exactly!!!
Gotta love the Proletariat, especially now they have been shown the door. 
andytrew:
jimti:
I can’t help thinking that if it wasn’t for unions we would still have ship yards and coal mines, I could be wrong, but somehow doubt it.
All unions I know of look after themselves before the workers, so I have always opted for being independent of them, If I don’t like my job and the boss doesn’t want to change it, I get a job I do like.
They had their place in Victorian Briton, trying to keep little boys out of chimneys but not in today’s world, there are far too many Foreign companies willing to take over anything we do from manufacturing to services, go on strike and someone else will fill the gap.
Scab is a very emotive word, I wonder what the word should be for someone who tries to bring a company to it’s knees when times are hard?
You should always remember, we all have rights, you have the right to strike, and everyone else has the right to work, that was a right the unions fought for so if you try to take it away what does that make you?size=200]I think you will find if you have a good memory it was Maggies wonderful government that closed mines ,shipyards etc not the unions at that time, but i stand to be corrected, Andy[/size]
Hiya…the miners never mention how much the payout was to leave the pits and shut there mouths.3 years worth of pay to go.
i,ll bet not many transport company,s got that much for woking there nuts off.
3300John:
andytrew:
jimti:
I can’t help thinking that if it wasn’t for unions we would still have ship yards and coal mines, I could be wrong, but somehow doubt it.
All unions I know of look after themselves before the workers, so I have always opted for being independent of them, If I don’t like my job and the boss doesn’t want to change it, I get a job I do like.
They had their place in Victorian Briton, trying to keep little boys out of chimneys but not in today’s world, there are far too many Foreign companies willing to take over anything we do from manufacturing to services, go on strike and someone else will fill the gap.
Scab is a very emotive word, I wonder what the word should be for someone who tries to bring a company to it’s knees when times are hard?
You should always remember, we all have rights, you have the right to strike, and everyone else has the right to work, that was a right the unions fought for so if you try to take it away what does that make you?size=200]I think you will find if you have a good memory it was Maggies wonderful government that closed mines ,shipyards etc not the unions at that time, but i stand to be corrected, Andy[/size]
Hiya…the miners never mention how much the payout was to leave the pits and shut there mouths.3 years worth of pay to go.
i,ll bet not many transport company,s got that much for woking there nuts off.
One of the posters on here got double redundo (not the gov’t minimum) to leave a transport job (after earning probably £30-40,000 Pa for many years), he’s happy, but 60 driving jobs have ended up as £8.50 an hour (no overtime rate) agency only jobs!
Dunno if the unions ‘ruined’ that company, but the company will ‘struggle on’ now with massively reduced costs, paying much lower wages.
Even as a non union man, I think it does stink!
bobthedog:
Carryfast:
Cheap as chips and bought by peasants probably that’s why.More bollox from the bollock master… Out of the top 15 selling cars for November in the USA, 7 were Japanese.
Now, unlike you, I buy something which is reliable and gives me value for money. When I bought a brand new vehicle in the UK, I bought a Mitsubishi. I din’t buy it because it was cheap (it wasn’t) but because it had everything I wanted in a vehicle at the time. My trucks were Renaults, because they were cheap but also very reliable and light. The bottom line was that I was able to think of a future where I had no mania of British only, which is only a translation of Deutschland uber alles really. To hold you point of view would be ruinous for any normal person because we would all have had to wait 6 months for our vehicles if they were old school brit, and then they would have been falling apart around our ears because the workers would have been on strike twelve times while building the damned things and would have forgotten to do most of the tightening up.
I suspect you are Gordon Brown under a pseudonym because you have about as much idea as he does, and as little commonsense.
If I remember right that Scotch zb was just part of the same government as that other Thatcherite idiot Blair set up and between the three of them they’ve just about zb’d the place up to the point where many Brit workers want to leave the country and all the place is really fit for is immigrant workers who’s own places are even worse. 
But you’ve said that I’m talking bollox about 1960’s American muscle cars and Leyland built Jaguars like the V12 E Type,both built in better days in unionised factories,being better and worth a lot more than a zb piece of oriental zb and so far you have’nt come up with any figures to prove me wrong because you can’t.
But yeah right a lot of yanks are buying zb oriental mickey mouse motors these days because that’s all they can afford since the days when Nixon started to zb up their economy too just like Wilson and Thatcher did here.However that does’nt mean that all the yanks are as stupid which is why one of those Hemi Roadrunners or a Yenko big block Camaro is worth a lot more than a brand new Mitsubishi let alone a 40 year old one.It’s also why you’re not driving a zb Renault, Hino,or a Kamaz over there yet but give it a few years and that’s probably all that you’ll be able to get.
Jon was driving a Hino before he went to FedEx and he seemed to like it.
Big Jon’s dad:
Jon was driving a Hino before he went to FedEx and he seemed to like it.
Blimey. 
And on that bombshell I bet that newmercman and all the other ex pats in North America are right now moaning at there guvnors about those yank wagons they’ve got and asking the guvnor to get them a zb Hino instead.
Carryfast:
Big Jon’s dad:
Jon was driving a Hino before he went to FedEx and he seemed to like it.Blimey.
Probably not, Jon drives Freightliners now but would love a Peterbilt or Kenworth.
I have some photos he sent me where he was driving past the KW dealer and he was drooling over them in his email.
Have you heard of Hayes? We had lots of those where I lived.
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Big Jon’s dad:
Jon was driving a Hino before he went to FedEx and he seemed to like it.Blimey.
Probably not, Jon drives Freightliners now but would love a Peterbilt or Kenworth.
I have some photos he sent me where he was driving past the KW dealer and he was drooling over them in his email.Have you heard of Hayes? We had lots of those where I lived.
They say over there that there’s two types of truck drivers.They either drive a KW or they want to drive one.I agree with that even for European work.But the problem seems to be that a lot of people here and in North America are forgetting that old saying you never know what you’ve got til it’s gone.That sums up the difference between 1960’s and early 1970’s America and Britain to me compared to now. 
But yeah right a lot of yanks are buying zb oriental mickey mouse motors these days because that’s all they can afford since the days when Nixon started to zb up their economy too just like Wilson and Thatcher did here.However that does’nt mean that all the yanks are as stupid which is why one of those Hemi Roadrunners or a Yenko big block Camaro is worth a lot more than a brand new Mitsubishi let alone a 40 year old one.It’s also why you’re not driving a zb Renault, Hino,or a Kamaz over there yet but give it a few years and that’s probably all that you’ll be able to get.
First of all, I think that you get a little bit a “stiffie” typing Hemi Roadrunners, because I seen it at least 50 times now. 
Second of all with the current fuel prices (also in the USA) is there hardly anybody who can afford them, or can afford the truck and fuel tanker to drive behind you to fill you up.
Most American cars and truck are on antiquated technology and design, ever drove a Freightliner??
The cars what you name are hardly “daily drives” , So to Compare a Mitsubishi with a Jaguar E-type V12 shows that you really need to park your Matchbox collection up, go out and get a live.
If you look at your way of thinking than the E-type was the most unreliable vehicle in the world, because the Toyota Corolla did 100.000.000.000.000 times more miles without any rebuild or welding ( we compare your way so we forget about that they sold 100.000.000 x more Toyota Corollas than E-types)
Utter ■■■■■■■■
By the way there is never been any American truck who won Paris- Dakar, but a few times a Kamaz, what is quality than■■?
I like American trucks and cars don’t get me wrong, but they can hardly be named as top design, I use to have a 1978 Pontiac Firebird 6.9ltr wouldn’t do above 100 mph but did less tha 5MPG on LPG.
To come back to the Unions, Rover had built in Solihull a top of the range new factory to produce the Big promise of the SD1, which could have been a wonderful car, good design, but quality was worse than a Hyundai Pony.
Engines where leaking, windows where leaking, Fuel tanks where leaking, because the guys on the lines where not interested, and only looking for the next strike. So the unions striked that factory and car to dead!
To put some value on an SD1 at this moment less than scrap for a project car and a little bit more for a “Condition 1” but defiantly less than what always been designed as a toy the E-type.
Because they are a lot money worth, doesn’t make them a good car, that is the world up-side down, In your way of thinking my Marks & Sparks pants are worse quality than overpriced Armani boxers, to be honest I think that’s pants!
One of the posters on here got double redundo (not the gov’t minimum) to leave a transport job
Not sure if you mean me, Mick.
If so, I can assure that I wasn’t earning the figures you mention.
Whilst doing night trunking (up to 9 years ago) I was earning around £27k and after going onto days for the last few years around £20k (no overtime through choice).
the company did not lose its staff owing to expense of wages but more owing to the poor location of the depot and the expense incurred because of this.
Previous to that, the company I worked for paid average wages for around 60 hours.
Both were unionised, but not excessively so.
But both would have liked to have drivers hung up behind the office door for convenience if they had been allowed to.
In 1965 the Labour gov brought in SET (selective employment tax , god knows what for) but this did not help. The selective employment tax made all employers pay a tax for each worker on the books I dont know how much this was,…global …sorry climate change will be blamed on the great british workers next
del949:
One of the posters on here got double redundo (not the gov’t minimum) to leave a transport job
Not sure if you mean me, Mick.
If so, I can assure that I wasn’t earning the figures you mention.
Whilst doing night trunking (up to 9 years ago) I was earning around £27k and after going onto days for the last few years around £20k (no overtime through choice).
the company did not lose its staff owing to expense of wages but more owing to the poor location of the depot and the expense incurred because of this.
Previous to that, the company I worked for paid average wages for around 60 hours.
Both were unionised, but not excessively so.
But both would have liked to have drivers hung up behind the office door for convenience if they had been allowed to.
Yep I did mean you Del, and I was told by one of the remaining drivers that he was on 40k, so, my apologies for believing him and repeating it.
I worked for an agency on the Next contract, 14t rigids 14 years ago, and their lads were on 25k then, so it did sound feasible to me.
“the company did not lose its staff owing to expense of wages but more owing to the poor location of the depot and the expense incurred”
How do you mean?
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Unions got to big and had too much power and they were lead by un-educated morons that couldn’t rise above supervisor level, they have broken every industry they have tried to control they are dinosaurs, I worked for a short time out of the London docks the unions wrecked them with their continuous strikes and disruption even to the extent of demanding jobs for life from the PLA, it’s no wonder all the docks moved out of Liverpool and London. Now it’s the turn of British Airways to feel the grip of the unions lets hope they can come out of it without losing too much business, they should rename the “unite” union to “We’ll ■■■■ your job up union” You may call me a capitalist but all I wanted to do was go out and earn a good days pay for a good days work but the unions wouldn’t allow me to do that. Socialism does not work in the long term. If it was not for the unions and socialist governments Britain would still be Great and I and many other would still be living there.
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Cars and so called British workmanship! Austin, Morris, later BMC, Ford, Humber Hillman etc, having had most of them, all a pile of crap!!
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Trucks Foden, Atkinson, ERF, Guy, Leyland, AEC, Dodge, Bedford etc, Having driven all of them at some time in the late 60’s and 70’s same as above all a pile of ■■■■, thought I died and gone to heaven when I got my first L reg Scania 80.
Hi mick, night trunk drivers working max hours etc will probably be earning around 40k,but I would say that is an exception rather than the rule, I could be wrong as its 16 months since I left. I would imagine that the drivers earning that kind of wage will be working max hours hours, i.e. extra shifts etc and if I remember correctly their contracts include Sunday at normal rate, the extra shift would be premium though.
(my £27 k was 9 years ago when on nights,as I said !) Day drivers will be nowhere near that, guessing at roundabout 25K.
Location wise, it was taking up to 40 mins to get out of Bradford at rush hours and at the first sign of snow you couldn’t get out at all!!
Thats a lot of time to lose when you are doing max distance trunks, i.e. Airdrie, South london , bristol, southampton, Rochester etc.
Several of these runs had to be double manned in order to get there and back in the night, hence extra cost.
There were also several vehicles ■■■■■■■ on simply running between the two seperate buildings in Bradford, only half a mile apart but with upwards of 40 trailer movements between them…!
Also , the amount of business rates payable on a building that size is considerable, many new developments are offering free rates for a number of years.
Since being taken over by Hermes the idea seems to be to have a string of regional depots along the M6 corridor.
Another major expense was the appalling use of vehicles and drivers, strictly down to management. The shop stewards continually tried to get the company to use the vehicle etc more efficiently but every suggestion was overuled.
As an example, the first 2 years I was on days my job consisted of one trip to Kendal, swap trailer, back to Bradford and wait till it was unloaded and then refuel etc and finish. About 4-5 hours driving max. paid for a minimum of 8 hours, so about 3 hours a day was wasted altogether.
There were 5 or 6 drivers doing virually the same!!
Having said that, things did tighten up a bit during the last couple of years I worked there and the unions worked well with the management in order to try and maintain jobs, I dont think there was ever any union action whilst I was there.
Incidentally, I was a member of a different union and thus not a union officer there.
del949:
Location wise, it was taking up to 40 mins to get out of Bradford at rush hours and at the first sign of snow you couldn’t get out at all!!
Thats a lot of time to lose when you are doing max distance trunks, i.e. Airdrie, South london , bristol, southampton, Rochester etc.
Several of these runs had to be double manned in order to get there and back in the night, hence extra cost.
There were also several vehicles ■■■■■■■ on simply running between the two seperate buildings in Bradford, only half a mile apart but with upwards of 40 trailer movements between them…!
When I was agency there, they also piggy backed us out on some runs, but the Airdre run was extremely tight to do on your own with only one break, and was impossible to do that way without speeding for the full length of the A65.
The shunting between buildings was a very expensive I’m sure.
del949:
Also , the amount of business rates payable on a building that size is considerable, many new developments are offering free rates for a number of years.
Since being taken over by Hermes the idea seems to be to have a string of regional depots along the M6 corridor.Another major expense was the appalling use of vehicles and drivers, strictly down to management. The shop stewards continually tried to get the company to use the vehicle etc more efficiently but every suggestion was overuled.
As an example, the first 2 years I was on days my job consisted of one trip to Kendal, swap trailer, back to Bradford and wait till it was unloaded and then refuel etc and finish. About 4-5 hours driving max. paid for a minimum of 8 hours, so about 3 hours a day was wasted altogether.
There were 5 or 6 drivers doing virually the same!!
That’s bad management, but I’m sure that plenty here will insist it must have been the unions, even after what you said above.
When I worked for Next they started at 4am even if it was for a drop in Blackburn at 10am and one in Oldham for 12 noon, then return to base and wait with truck for hours to get unloaded (empty plastic boxes, which could be carried inside the building), usually 12/14 hr shifts for which the regulars got early start money, lunch allowance, and OT after 8 hrs!
caledoniandream:
But yeah right a lot of yanks are buying zb oriental mickey mouse motors these days because that’s all they can afford since the days when Nixon started to zb up their economy too just like Wilson and Thatcher did here.However that does’nt mean that all the yanks are as stupid which is why one of those Hemi Roadrunners or a Yenko big block Camaro is worth a lot more than a brand new Mitsubishi let alone a 40 year old one.It’s also why you’re not driving a zb Renault, Hino,or a Kamaz over there yet but give it a few years and that’s probably all that you’ll be able to get.
First of all, I think that you get a little bit a “stiffie” typing Hemi Roadrunners, because I seen it at least 50 times now.
Second of all with the current fuel prices (also in the USA) is there hardly anybody who can afford them, or can afford the truck and fuel tanker to drive behind you to fill you up.
Most American cars and truck are on antiquated technology and design, ever drove a Freightliner??
The cars what you name are hardly “daily drives” , So to Compare a Mitsubishi with a Jaguar E-type V12 shows that you really need to park your Matchbox collection up, go out and get a live.
If you look at your way of thinking than the E-type was the most unreliable vehicle in the world, because the Toyota Corolla did 100.000.000.000.000 times more miles without any rebuild or welding ( we compare your way so we forget about that they sold 100.000.000 x more Toyota Corollas than E-types)
Utter [zb]By the way there is never been any American truck who won Paris- Dakar, but a few times a Kamaz, what is quality than■■?
I like American trucks and cars don’t get me wrong, but they can hardly be named as top design, I use to have a 1978 Pontiac Firebird 6.9ltr wouldn’t do above 100 mph but did less tha 5MPG on LPG.To come back to the Unions, Rover had built in Solihull a top of the range new factory to produce the Big promise of the SD1, which could have been a wonderful car, good design, but quality was worse than a Hyundai Pony.
Engines where leaking, windows where leaking, Fuel tanks where leaking, because the guys on the lines where not interested, and only looking for the next strike. So the unions striked that factory and car to dead!
To put some value on an SD1 at this moment less than scrap for a project car and a little bit more for a “Condition 1” but defiantly less than what always been designed as a toy the E-type.
Because they are a lot money worth, doesn’t make them a good car, that is the world up-side down, In your way of thinking my Marks & Sparks pants are worse quality than overpriced Armani boxers, to be honest I think that’s pants!
So based on your experience of a zb late 1970’s Firebird,which was built after the US Politicians had finished with cutting the thing’s outputs,to the point where I’m surprised that it could even reach 100 mph,you then feel that qualifies you to brand that 1960’s Plymouth under the same heading.
The SD1 was actually another zb up by British management not the workers who built them considering the retrograde heap that it was compared to what the 2.5 PI could have been if it had been fitted with a decent V8 motor instead of bothering with that hopeless Rover.Although having said that the SD1 was actually a better car that that oriental front wheel drive heap the 75 as proved by TWR who used it to beat the BMW’s in racing just like the Jaguar XJS did.
But obviously there’s plenty of people who agree with me and who don’t believe all the bs concerning decent American and British cars being overpriced compared to the Jap zb products made in the same era or now and they’ve probably got the intelligence to understand the difference between value for money and just paying too much for a cheap product with a expensive badge on it and the reason why those cars are valued so highly now is because they were,and still are,great products.Having said all that if fuel prices/taxes here were brought down to even what they’re paying now in the US,let alone the late 1960’s early 1970’s,then the fuel consumption issue would become far less of a priority and if prices in general had stayed the same as they were in the late 1960’s then British and American workers and products would still have been as competitive as they were then.Because as I’ve said previously wage levels have to reflect prices unless you want living standards to spiral downwards to the lowest common denominator.
By the way there’s never been an American truck that won the Paris-Dakar but Perlini won it enough times using American engines not Russian or Japanese ones.