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UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

Carryfast:

robroy:
That’s the thing though mate, it is not necessarily always the case that Brit drivers are better drivers than EE drivers is it, …don’t believe all the hype and driver-spouted b/s :bulb:

I think you’ve made a great case for the entire indigenous Brit populaton to give up and allow the slavic master race to take over.In which case they will then show us how to make this country as great as their own. :unamused:

Not my intent to make any kind of case, it’s just that I do not subscribe to racial stereotypical views as you appear to do… :unamused:

22

robroy:

eddie snax:
I would say that operators should be forced to pay the minimum wage off the country off registration off the vehicle, but the NMW is poverty pay anyway. So that don’t work. lets face it, we just have to prove we’re better :wink:

That’s the thing though mate, it is not necessarily always the case that Brit drivers are better drivers than EE drivers is it, …don’t believe all the hype and driver-spouted b/s :bulb:

That is correct, but I follow the belief that if you’re not prepared to back yourself then don’t expect anyone else too. So I don’t think that Brit drivers are better than EE drivers or vis versa, but that I can always offer something as good as any other driver, and that an employer will be prepared too pay for My services at rate that reflects the cost off living in Britain today. Too many want to ■■■■■ and moan, instead proving why its worth an employer paying more for a decent brit driver, rather than NMW for a average driver from another country, whose first language wont be English, and will be hindered at least to start with just to do with comprehension off instruction given.

I work with some really good EE guys, they are now basically fluent English speakers and are paid at the company going rate, same as all of us, and that’s as it should be. I’m afraid that the levels off intelligence shown by some off my fellow brit drivers is far out stripped by some off the EE guys. The amount off planner/office input required by some off my fellow brit drivers, to get the most simply off journeys completed makes me wonder how they make it to the yard each week. In this situation why wouldn’t a company just pay less for an EE driver.

So sharpen up your act lads, and show transport managers why its better to employ local, instead off ■■■■■■■■ and moaning :wink:

23

robroy:
I do not subscribe to racial stereotypical views as you appear to do… :unamused:

Nor do I.Which is why I’m all for the idea of the Nation State not Federalism.Nor economic exploitation based on the worst performing economies regards same.Which for ‘some’ reason just happens to be the slavic ones. :unamused:

24

to be fair I get as much grief from my UK drivers as I do my EE ones, but as they say ■■■■ happens.

agree with the whole dutch thing as I can remember looking into it years ago, same with UK guys going to Canada and the likes, I would doubt many if any have gone just for the sense of adventure. and I for one would move to a different country if it meant a better way of life for me and my family.

25

eddie snax:

robroy:

eddie snax:
I would say that operators should be forced to pay the minimum wage off the country off registration off the vehicle, but the NMW is poverty pay anyway. So that don’t work. lets face it, we just have to prove we’re better :wink:

That’s the thing though mate, it is not necessarily always the case that Brit drivers are better drivers than EE drivers is it, …don’t believe all the hype and driver-spouted b/s :bulb:

That is correct, but I follow the belief that if you’re not prepared to back yourself then don’t expect anyone else too. So I don’t think that Brit drivers are better than EE drivers or vis versa, but that I can always offer something as good as any other driver, and that an employer will be prepared too pay for My services at rate that reflects the cost off living in Britain today. Too many want to ■■■■■ and moan, instead proving why its worth an employer paying more for a decent brit driver, rather than NMW for a average driver from another country, whose first language wont be English, and will be hindered at least to start with just to do with comprehension off instruction given.

I work with some really good EE guys, they are now basically fluent English speakers and are paid at the company going rate, same as all of us, and that’s as it should be. I’m afraid that the levels off intelligence shown by some off my fellow brit drivers is far out stripped by some off the EE guys. The amount off planner/office input required by some off my fellow brit drivers, to get the most simply off journeys completed makes me wonder how they make it to the yard each week. In this situation why wouldn’t a company just pay less for an EE driver.

So sharpen up your act lads, and show transport managers why its better to employ local, instead off ■■■■■■■■ and moaning :wink:

Which leaves the obvious question going by your logic why would these so called more intelligent drivers want to move here ‘if’ as you say wage levels are all about how good they are.In which case the same logic would/should apply in their own countries and they would all be earning more at home because every customer would be willing to pay more for East European services than Brit.

The fact is its all a big cheap labour scam and those with your ideas are just trying to justify it.IE yes they earn the ‘same’ as Brits ‘but’ Brit wages are artificially low because of over supply in the labour market caused by the import of labour from backward under developed under performing slavic economies.Which is itself all part of an agenda of wealth redistribution from the richer west to the poorer east.All to meet the aims of America’s zb’d up foreign policy.

While ‘the west’ didn’t get richer than the east because Western workers were/are thick. :bulb: :imp: :unamused:

26

war1974:
same with UK guys going to Canada and the likes, I would doubt many if any have gone just for the sense of adventure. and I for one would move to a different country if it meant a better way of life for me and my family.

The common link being that it is the English speaking world that has made its places more attractive to live than the other parts like Eastern Europe.Which then leaves the obvious question why.IE more industrious and forward thinking in terms of fighting against exploitation for a better standard of living.

27

Carryfast:

eddie snax:
That is correct, but I follow the belief that if you’re not prepared to back yourself then don’t expect anyone else too. So I don’t think that Brit drivers are better than EE drivers or vis versa, but that I can always offer something as good as any other driver, and that an employer will be prepared too pay for My services at rate that reflects the cost off living in Britain today. Too many want to ■■■■■ and moan, instead proving why its worth an employer paying more for a decent brit driver, rather than NMW for a average driver from another country, whose first language wont be English, and will be hindered at least to start with just to do with comprehension off instruction given.

I work with some really good EE guys, they are now basically fluent English speakers and are paid at the company going rate, same as all of us, and that’s as it should be. I’m afraid that the levels off intelligence shown by some off my fellow brit drivers is far out stripped by some off the EE guys. The amount off planner/office input required by some off my fellow brit drivers, to get the most simply off journeys completed makes me wonder how they make it to the yard each week. In this situation why wouldn’t a company just pay less for an EE driver.

So sharpen up your act lads, and show transport managers why its better to employ local, instead off ■■■■■■■■ and moaning :wink:

Which leaves the obvious question going by your logic why would these so called more intelligent drivers want to move here ‘if’ as you say wage levels are all about how good they are.In which case the same logic would/should apply in their own countries and they would all be earning more at home because every customer would be willing to pay more for East European services than Brit.

The fact is its all a big cheap labour scam and those with your ideas are just trying to justify it.IE yes they earn the ‘same’ as Brits ‘but’ Brit wages are artificially low because of over supply in the labour market caused by the import of labour from backward under developed under performing slavic economies.Which is itself all part of an agenda of wealth redistribution from the richer west to the poorer east.All to meet the aims of America’s zb’d up foreign policy.

While ‘the west’ didn’t get richer than the east because Western workers were/are thick. :bulb: :imp: :unamused:

It is about cheap labour sure, agreed, full stop wages are lower than they would be, had the labour market not been corrupted by foreign labour over supplying it. But there is still a market place in which some employers will purely an simply employ on price, but others do employ on value added by employee’s, and therefore are paying higher :wink:

28

Conor:

Honestscott76:
After-all it’s unskilled labour now since the implementation of automatic gearboxes and sat-navs. Anyone can do it!

Yet so many people fail the medical and test so obviously anyone can’t do it. And given what I see out and about there are many who can barely get from A to B and they usually end up on the dole.

The only reason it’ll end up being minimum wage is because of people with the attitude you have.

What a ridicules comment. Attitude has nothing at all to do with it. I do not have ‘attitude’ it’s merely an ‘opinion’, although I often wonder if people are allowed an ‘opinion’ these days.

Failing ‘medicals’ and ‘getting from A to B’ are merely stumbling blocks for ‘some’ and would not stop ‘some’ drivers from continuing driving. Although it may stop an English driver.

The increase in migrants flooding the HGV Driver industry will (in my opinion) drive the hourly rate down to minimum as the companies will have unlimited choice. “If you don’t take it, they will” just like warehouse work or any other ‘unskilled labour’, hence my comment “anyone can do it”.

An 18 year old can now legally drive HGV’s but to be honest my 8 year old could do it, if it were legal. If you can’t see this is an unskilled job, your in denial.

29

Honestscott76:

Conor:

Honestscott76:
After-all it’s unskilled labour now since the hence my comment “anyone can do it”.

An 18 year old can now legally drive HGV’s but to be honest my 8 year old could do it, if it were legal. If you can’t see this is an unskilled job, your in denial.

It’s ironic and sad that drivers often under estimate the level of skill required to do the job properly.Realistically that means applying a similar thought process as truck design engineers amongst other engineering type principles at least in relation to load distribution planning and security.Together with driving skills which are/should be way in excess of those of the very best police drivers who are considered an elite highly skilled group in their own right in that occupation.Let alone all the road traffic law and industry specific legislative requirements knowledge.

IE drivers who view the job as ‘unskilled’ could only arguably form that idea by not realising,and therefore possibly also failing to apply, :open_mouth: all the required skill levels in the course of doing the job.On that note from experience historically the west european road transport environment has often if not usually been a safer place to be than the East European one.:bulb:

30

Carryfast:

war1974:
same with UK guys going to Canada and the likes, I would doubt many if any have gone just for the sense of adventure. and I for one would move to a different country if it meant a better way of life for me and my family.

The common link being that it is the English speaking world that has made its places more attractive to live than the other parts like Eastern Europe.Which then leaves the obvious question why.IE more industrious and forward thinking in terms of fighting against exploitation for a better standard of living.

didn’t know they spoke English in Holland? or Germany if you go back to the 80’s

31

Together with driving skills which are/should be way in excess of those of the very best police drivers who are considered an elite highly skilled group in their own right in that occupation.

Carryfast I have trained and been involved with police driver training and I can tell you their training is far more advanced and far more complex than a basic LGV test. All traffic officers also go through the basic LGV test (or they used to) and their driver knowledge and driver ability is far superior to the average driver.
I would love to think they are similar standards but unfortunately that is far from the truth.

32

albion1971:
Carryfast I have trained and been involved with police driver training and I can tell you their training is far more advanced and far more complex than a basic LGV test. All traffic officers also go through the basic LGV test (or they used to) and their driver knowledge and driver ability is far superior to the average driver.
I would love to think they are similar standards but unfortunately that is far from the truth.

Assuming that,at best,the job of a police ( car ) driver just includes ( Class 1/C+E ‘training’ ? ) how can the job itself possibly involve ‘more’ observation,planning,positioning,use of mirrors,and other general driving skills.As required,all the time,on an every day basis,in the case of the actual job of driving a truck.As opposed to a car.Bearing in mind the comparative potential dimensions and weights involved. :confused:

33

Carryfast:

albion1971:
Carryfast I have trained and been involved with police driver training and I can tell you their training is far more advanced and far more complex than a basic LGV test. All traffic officers also go through the basic LGV test (or they used to) and their driver knowledge and driver ability is far superior to the average driver.
I would love to think they are similar standards but unfortunately that is far from the truth.

Assuming that,at best,the job of a police ( car ) driver just includes ( Class 1/C+E ‘training’ ? ) how can the job itself possibly involve ‘more’ observation,planning,positioning,use of mirrors,and other general driving skills.As required,all the time,on an every day basis,in the case of the actual job of driving a truck.As opposed to a car.Bearing in mind the comparative potential dimensions and weights involved. :confused:

I am not talking about just a police car driver as you put it. I am talking about highly trained traffic police.
Their training is far more comprehensive that a basic LGV training and their skills are far greater than any lorry driver.
Of course as a lorry driver you should have good observational skills etc but to compare the two types of driver is ridiculous.
Most of the traffic police I trained to pass an LGV test took half a day each before sitting the test and very few failed.
The reason they adapted so quickly in my mind was because of their previous comprehensive training before they even sat in a lorry.

34

albion1971:

Carryfast:
Assuming that,at best,the job of a police ( car ) driver just includes ( Class 1/C+E ‘training’ ? ) how can the job itself possibly involve ‘more’ observation,planning,positioning,use of mirrors,and other general driving skills.As required,all the time,on an every day basis,in the case of the actual job of driving a truck.As opposed to a car.Bearing in mind the comparative potential dimensions and weights involved. :confused:

I am not talking about just a police car driver as you put it. I am talking about highly trained traffic police.
Their training is far more comprehensive that a basic LGV training and their skills are far greater than any lorry driver.
Of course as a lorry driver you should have good observational skills etc but to compare the two types of driver is ridiculous.
Most of the traffic police I trained to pass an LGV test took half a day each before sitting the test and very few failed.

In what way would ‘highly skilled traffic police’ translate as anything more than a decent car driver in terms of driving skills. :confused:

So you’re saying that you’re going to put someone who’s never driven anything bigger than a car in a truck.Then teach them all the finer points of handling the extra length,width,cut in,tail sweep,approach technique and massively different mirror use regime in ‘half a day’s’ instruction. :open_mouth: :unamused:

Although that might partly explain the move to synchro boxes to at least give them half a chance. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

35

have to admit I agree with albion this is why the police wont accept that hgv drivers are skilled.

36

robroy:
Harry Vos from Oss Holland used to employ a lot of Brit home based drivers and opened a depot in Scotland which has now gone. The last time I was in Zeebrugge about 5 yrs ago I learned their drivers at that depot were mostly Romanian double manned, no more Brits or Belgians, I was told the two drivers combined wages equated to the wage I was on when I was there.
However you can not blame the drivers, there or in the UK, it’s the companies you should be aiming your grievances at if it bothers you so much.

Correct.
Don’t blame lads for earning a crust.
Brits weren’t shy in going to Germany in the 70s and 80s.

37

Carryfast:

albion1971:

Carryfast:
Assuming that,at best,the job of a police ( car ) driver just includes ( Class 1/C+E ‘training’ ? ) how can the job itself possibly involve ‘more’ observation,planning,positioning,use of mirrors,and other general driving skills.As required,all the time,on an every day basis,in the case of the actual job of driving a truck.As opposed to a car.Bearing in mind the comparative potential dimensions and weights involved. :confused:

I am not talking about just a police car driver as you put it. I am talking about highly trained traffic police.
Their training is far more comprehensive that a basic LGV training and their skills are far greater than any lorry driver.
Of course as a lorry driver you should have good observational skills etc but to compare the two types of driver is ridiculous.
Most of the traffic police I trained to pass an LGV test took half a day each before sitting the test and very few failed.

In what way would ‘highly skilled traffic police’ translate as anything more than a decent car driver in terms of driving skills. :confused:

So you’re saying that you’re going to put someone who’s never driven anything bigger than a car in a truck.Then teach them all the finer points of handling the extra length,width,cut in,tail sweep,approach technique and massively different mirror use regime in ‘half a day’s’ instruction. :open_mouth: :unamused:

Although that might partly explain the move to synchro boxes to at least give them half a chance. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

As usual you have no idea about the training that traffic police go through. They are trained to a far higher standard than any decent car driver. By the way your idea of a decent car driver may not be a very good standard. When was your driving last assessed?

And yes we had 2 police students for one day then a test. They picked things up no problem in fact most of them seemed to have a natural ability to driving a truck. And it was not a synchro box. It was a Leyland Chieftan.
As I have said before if you know nothing about training you have no idea about different abilities from different people and the different standards of driving.
I once had a binman on a rigid for 5 days training. He was certainly not brightest kid on the block. The rigid broke down on the second day and as we only had one rigid my boss said take him out in the artic.
It was like he had driven the thing for years. Just not a problem going forwards or backwards. Yet others struggle and never really get anywhere.

38

albion1971:

Carryfast:

albion1971:

Carryfast:
Assuming that,at best,the job of a police ( car ) driver just includes ( Class 1/C+E ‘training’ ? ) how can the job itself possibly involve ‘more’ observation,planning,positioning,use of mirrors,and other general driving skills.As required,all the time,on an every day basis,in the case of the actual job of driving a truck.As opposed to a car.Bearing in mind the comparative potential dimensions and weights involved. :confused:

I am not talking about just a police car driver as you put it. I am talking about highly trained traffic police.
Their training is far more comprehensive that a basic LGV training and their skills are far greater than any lorry driver.
Of course as a lorry driver you should have good observational skills etc but to compare the two types of driver is ridiculous.
Most of the traffic police I trained to pass an LGV test took half a day each before sitting the test and very few failed.

In what way would ‘highly skilled traffic police’ translate as anything more than a decent car driver in terms of driving skills. :confused:

So you’re saying that you’re going to put someone who’s never driven anything bigger than a car in a truck.Then teach them all the finer points of handling the extra length,width,cut in,tail sweep,approach technique and massively different mirror use regime in ‘half a day’s’ instruction. :open_mouth: :unamused:

Although that might partly explain the move to synchro boxes to at least give them half a chance. :smiling_imp: :laughing:

As usual you have no idea about the training that traffic police go through. They are trained to a far higher standard than any decent car driver. By the way your idea of a decent car driver may not be a very good standard. When was your driving last assessed?

And yes we had 2 police students for one day then a test. They picked things up no problem in fact most of them seemed to have a natural ability to driving a truck. And it was not a synchro box. It was a Leyland Chieftan.
As I have said before if you know nothing about training you have no idea about different abilities from different people and the different standards of driving.
I once had a binman on a rigid for 5 days training. He was certainly not brightest kid on the block. The rigid broke down on the second day and as we only had one rigid my boss said take him out in the artic.
It was like he had driven the thing for years. Just not a problem going forwards or backwards. Yet others struggle and never really get anywhere.

All of which suggests that driving a truck can’t possibly require any ‘less’ driving skills than a police car. :bulb:

As for when was I last ‘assessed’ I haven’t driven a truck since 1999 but I think I could at least hopefully still pass my ex employers’ type driving standards assessments.On that note I’d still at least be up for its drawbar reversing standards test against the best police car driver you can find.With a reasonable bet on the side that the copper will fail it before I do and therefore won’t get the chance to even go out on the road with it. :smiling_imp: :wink: :laughing:

39

Carryfast:

albion1971:

Carryfast:
Assuming that,at best,the job of a police ( car ) driver just includes ( Class 1/C+E ‘training’ ? ) how can the job itself possibly involve ‘more’ observation,planning,positioning,use of mirrors,and other general driving skills.As required,all the time,on an every day basis,in the case of the actual job of driving a truck.As opposed to a car.Bearing in mind the comparative potential dimensions and weights involved. :confused:

I am not talking about just a police car driver as you put it. I am talking about highly trained traffic police.
Their training is far more comprehensive that a basic LGV training and their skills are far greater than any lorry driver.
Of course as a lorry driver you should have good observational skills etc but to compare the two types of driver is ridiculous.
Most of the traffic police I trained to pass an LGV test took half a day each before sitting the test and very few failed.

In what way would ‘highly skilled traffic police’ translate as anything more than a decent car driver in terms of driving skills. :confused:

lol:

Don’t they do stuff like skid pan handling, high speed pursuit, defensive driving, combative driving, and stuff that I don’t even know the names off, and take some considerable length off time to move through the stages off training, being assessed and having to pass each stage before moving to the next. just a thought :wink:

Carryfast:
So you’re saying that you’re going to put someone who’s never driven anything bigger than a car in a truck.Then teach them all the finer points of handling the extra length,width,cut in,tail sweep,approach technique and massively different mirror use regime in ‘half a day’s’ instruction. :open_mouth: :unamused:
:laughing:

Yet so often older drivers me included, trot out the mantra “you’ve got your licence now start learning” or any other derivative off that statement. On this logic, a police driver would never learn the finer points off artic driving, and maybe they don’t, but their ability to handle to a very high standard, high performance vehicles gives them the ability to handle to a reasonable standard, an artic. Driving a truck aint rocket science :unamused:

albion1971:
And yes we had 2 police students for one day then a test. They picked things up no problem in fact most of them seemed to have a natural ability to driving a truck. And it was not a synchro box. It was a Leyland Chieftan.
As I have said before if you know nothing about training you have no idea about different abilities from different people and the different standards of driving.
I once had a binman on a rigid for 5 days training. He was certainly not brightest kid on the block. The rigid broke down on the second day and as we only had one rigid my boss said take him out in the artic.
It was like he had driven the thing for years. Just not a problem going forwards or backwards. Yet others struggle and never really get anywhere.

I can easily believe those 2 examples, driving is an aptitude as much as a learned skill, and either you have or you don’t, most Police drivers, I would think would be motoring enthusiasts, and that being a reason for them to specialise in that field, making moving anything with wheels a joy to relish. :wink:

40

eddie snax:
so often older drivers me included, trot out the mantra “you’ve got your licence now start learning” or any other derivative off that statement. On this logic, a police driver would never learn the finer points off artic driving, and maybe they don’t, but their ability to handle to a very high standard, high performance vehicles gives them the ability to handle to a reasonable standard, an artic. Driving a truck aint rocket science :unamused:

I can easily believe those 2 examples, driving is an aptitude as much as a learned skill, and either you have or you don’t, most Police drivers, I would think would be motoring enthusiasts, and that being a reason for them to specialise in that field, making moving anything with wheels a joy to relish. :wink:

Agreed like pilots drivers are born not trained.However the idea of thinking that the job of driving a truck,isn’t at least as much,actually more so,‘rocket science’,as driving a police car at whatever level,would be a potentially dangerous understatement of the every day skill requirement for the job.